Lighting for Profits - Episode 172

This week on the show we welcome, Jonathan and Melissa, a husband-and-wife team, who founded Lit Outdoor Lighting as a part-time business over three years ago in Indiana. In April 2022, they relocated the business to Louisiana and committed to it full-time. While their primary focus remains landscape lighting, they’ve since expanded their offerings to include permanent track lighting, outdoor audio, and Christmas lights, which has grown to be a significant part of their revenue.

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We discuss everything you need to know to start and grow a successful landscape lighting business

Welcome to Lighting for Profits. All Light. All Light. All Light. Powered by Emery Allen. Get rid of your excuses. Your number one source for all things landscape lighting.

That's where the magic can happen.

You can really scale a business.

We really had to show up for.

Each other from lighting design, install sales, and marketing.

You're a scaredy cat salesman, Kurt.

We discuss everything you need to know to start and grow a successful landscape lighting business.

What do you think a hippo has.

To do with your business, Ryan?

Usually it's some weird childhood thing, some.

Bully kicks your butt.

I think the key factor here is trust.

Here is your host, Ryan Lee. A, lot, A lot of light.

Ryan Lee: Lighting for Profits helps people grow their lighting businesses

Welcome, welcome, welcome to the number one landscape lighting show in Covington, Louisiana. I'm so excited for today's show, you guys. I love doing this. This is so fun. You know, the landscape lighting industry is amazing, and, there's some amazing people in it. And today we've got an awesome show lined up. We've got John and Melissa Kajowski, and, you're gonna love to hear their story, you're gonna love to learn about them and some of the things that they're doing to get traction in the lighting business. So, stick around. It's gonna be a great show. If you didn't know, I'm Ryan Lee, your host of Lighting for Profits, powered by Emory Allen. And, you know, if you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, then you're definitely in the right place because that's what we do. We help people grow their lighting businesses. And, this show is to help educate and motivate, to help you dominate in your area.

If you implement these things, you will easily afford to join landscape lighting secrets

So, you know a little secret about myself and I've, maybe I've said this on here before, but, like, I'm, I'm a value driven guy and I encourage you to do this in your own business. Lead with value. Okay? And I didn't always do this. I used to be like, okay, what can I do to generate $10,000? Okay? I used to be like, like money motivated, especially early on in my career, but now I lead with value. And I'm telling you guys, like, if you will not just listen to this podcast and maybe go back to season one, episode one, but implement the things that the guests are talking about, you will easily be able to afford to join landscape lighting secrets because we're literally giving away tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of things that you can do. And so I never want to take a dime from someone until I've helped you make more than enough money to work with us. So the key is not just to listen to another podcast, it's to implement these things. So, and if you've gotten value, still looking for those five star reviews on Apple or Spotify? Apple's nice because you can actually write something nice too. So, don't be afraid, don't be afraid. Just go do it. I, want to remind you guys that we launched Lighting Academy. So if you want to get started in landscape lighting, or maybe you're like, eh, I kind of want to dip my toe in the waters, but I'm not ready for landscape lighting secrets. Go to lightingacademy. net and check it out. Right now we're doing a trial for $1 for seven days. So I won't say there's no risk. You have to risk a dollar. but that's a great place to get started. We have, two times a month we have design calls. Two times a month we have installation calls. so you get like real life support from industry professionals that have been, they have over 25 years experience. these guys are awesome. So check that out. And then we want to remind you, don't wait to get your ticket to Light it up Expo. It's lightedup expo. com that's where you want to be if you're in the lighting industry. We're bringing together landscape lighting, holiday lighting, permanent lighting, event lighting, all under one roof. And you can go to lightitup expo. com to find out some information. Hey, almost, forgot we got a shout out to Emory Allen. They've been a supporter of ours for years now and you know, performance matters. That's a true statement for a lot of things, including the kind of lighting you use. So don't sell yourself short with your customer. By using budget level products, Emory Allen is at the top of their game when it comes to performance. Take their VA rating for example. The lowest in the industry. What does that mean? Well, it means with a, low volt ampere rating, you're able to drive more bulbs on a circuit with a given transformer rating. So with lower quality bulbs, that same transformer, you're not going to be able to put as many lights on the same circuit. So make the switch to Emory Allen today. All you have to do is email tomgmaryallen. com and get your account set up. Mention that you heard about him here on Lighting for Profits and he's going to hook you up with that discounted contractor pricing.

John and Melissa Kajowski coming on in a couple minutes

Email tomgmaryallen. com all right, guys, in just a couple minutes, we got John and Melissa Kajowski coming on. And I'm telling you, this is going to be an awesome episode. You know, sometimes we have people that have been in the industry for decades, sometimes we have industry providers. one of the things that I'm trying to do more of over the next, I don't know, year, whatever it is, maybe forever, I want to kind of get some stories of the people of you guys out in the field, out in the trenches, what things are working, what things aren't. Like, where are you struggling with? And, I'm excited to have John, ah, and Melissa. I got to know them a little bit better when they came to Secret, ah, Summit. And, they're an awesome. They're a power couple. Okay, I'm gonna just put it out there. They're a power couple, so I'm excited to have them on.

Have you ever calculated your hourly rate for your business

Before, though, I want to just share something real quick before they come on. I came across this quote the other day, and I think I may have seen or heard it before, but it really hit me hard. Okay? And, it says, the price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. This was Henry David Thoreau. The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. Now, have you ever calculated your hourly rate? especially if you're early in business, this is kind of a depressing thing, to do, but you should do it. And, because a lot of us are like, oh, dude, I just scored this $10,000 job or whatever, and you kind of feel rich for like a minute, and then like, two days go by and you're like, crap, we don't have any money. You know? And, I've been there. I've done that. I've been guilty of all this stuff. But calculate your hourly rate. You know, how much do you personally make for all the hours you work? And this isn't what your business makes, but you personally. So if Your business has $50,000 in it and you haven't paid yourself that, then you haven't. You have not paid yourself that. Okay? So let's say you work 50 hours a week. Some of you are working way more than that. But let's just say 50 hours a week, that's 2600 hours per year. And let's say you pay yourself $80,000 per year, and some of you are paying yourself less than that. But we're just Going off these numbers that may, that means you made $31 per hour. And it's like, hopefully that's a wake up call because you have to work 50 hours and pay yourself 80 grand. That means you're making $31 per hour. That means you're working too hard for too little. Okay? And by the way, there is an easier way. But let's run with this number for a minute. If you want to buy something, let's say you want to buy a new iPad because it's going to help with your presentation. Whatever it is you want to buy an iPad, it's a thousand dollars. This, this should make you a little bit sick. That works out to 32 hours of your time to buy an iPad. A thousand dollar iPad. Is that worth it? Is it worth it for you to work 32 hours of your life and exchange that for an iPad? Like, and when I did the math, I couldn't believe it. You know, time is our most valuable asset. It's worth way more than money. And how much of your life are you exchanging right now for things that don't matter? Or that maybe they matter, but don't matter as much as the life you're exchanging for it? How much life are you wasting? And the reality is this. Being a business owner is extremely difficult. It's very, very hard. And in my opinion, it's not fair for so many business owners to be struggling and paying themselves $31 an hour, $26 an hour. Whatever your number is, it's not going to be impressive if you're within the first five years of starting your business. It's usually a very, very low number. It's kind of depressing, but we can use this as fuel to motivate us to make change. Okay? you know, it'd be a lot easier to just go work for someone else for $31 an hour. Like, would you agree? You know, get paid a living wage? Right? But here's the deal. If you're listening to this podcast, if you're watching this right now, you know, deep down that's not you. You know that you are called for something greater and you can't go work for someone else. Again, like, that's, that's just not even a possibility.

It starts with time management. Okay. So let me share with you some of my top ways

So let me share with you real quickly some of my top ways or my top way to help you stop spinning your wheels and get some traction. Okay? And I'm telling you, this is, this is where it all starts. It starts with time management. You know, a few episodes ago, I Had Lindsey on. And, we talked about my addiction. And I'm addicted to work. I am literally a workaholic. And it sounds dumb even when I say it, but I equate it to the same as a drug addict, an alcoholic, whatever it is. Like, I truly have to work on this every single day and try to not think about work and be disciplined with my time and put my phone away and do stuff just like an alcoholic. Right. And so chances are you probably have some of that in you too. Okay. If you're an entrepreneur, you're kind of a workaholic. They kind of go hand in hand. So if I gave you an extra day in a week and I, I was like, hey guys, I just invented a new thing. It's really cool. I have an eight day week. So it went from seven to eight, what would you do with the extra day? What would you do if you had more time right now, what would you do? And if your mind is like, like some people were like, oh, I'd go to the beach. And then other people, even if you're being honest with yourself, you're like, oh, then I could get all the things done on my to do list. Right? And you'd probably just work eight days a week. If I gave you nine days, you'd probably work nine days a week. Okay. And if you don't answer work, then you're probably lying. Okay. Because we're workaholics. Like, this is our, this is our weakness. And here's the thing, as humans, we automatically, like, this is just built into us. We automatically fill the time allotted to us. It's proven, it's science. I don't want to get into that. But it just happens like this. And so if you want to win, and if you want to win faster, because listen, I got things done where I was happy and it took me 12 years. But it didn't need to take that long. It could have taken four years, it could have taken three years. Like I didn't have enough intention behind it.

You need to start investing in your business, take control of your life

So you have to be able to create your own reality. And instead of letting life happen to you, you have to take control of your life, take control of your business. So what I want to do is I want to challenge you and I want to tell you right now, I'm not giving you an eight day week, I'm actually going to take away, I'm going to. Instead of giving you five days a week and some of you guys are working seven. But let's just say in a, in your in the life you should be living, you're working five days a week. What if I told you right now you only have four days per week to get the exact same amount of things done that you're doing now in five, okay? And if you're working six, I'm going to take one of those away and make it five, whatever it is. This is an example. But if I told you had to get the same amount of work done in four days that was now taking you five, I guarantee you would figure out a way you could do this. Okay? You need to carve out time to be business owner. You need to be carve out time to be an entrepreneur, because that is the highest paid person in your organization. And your problem is you're putting out fires. And when you're putting out fires, you don't have time. The time is robbed of you. And the idea is to prevent the fire from even happening. And the only way to do this is intentional attention. It's just intentional attention. I don't know if I just made up that term or not, but it's intentional attention. You got to pay attention to the things that you need to do. And so I'm serious. Like, you need to get serious about what you're doing, when you're doing it, why you're doing it, how you're doing it. Like, you've got to be intentional. And if your first thought is, you know what, he's right. I'm going to start next week. I'm going to start next month. I'm going to start after the holiday season or in January, because I know a ton of people are doing holiday right now. Then you have a problem, okay? And step one is recognizing you have a problem. So we just did step one together. But start now, like today. There's no reason to delay this stuff because if you say, well, I'll do it later, they'll just push it off again. Because something else is going to happen in December, Something else is going to happen in January. There's always going to be an excuse, and we got to find a solution. So block out time on your calendar to think, to build, to solve, to be great. You have to schedule in time to be great. Stop wasting your time. Stop wasting your life. You need to start investing in yourself. You need to start investing your time better. Okay? You can't, afford to keep doing what you've done. You have to celebrate it and be like, yeah, I'm a badass. I made it this far. And the activities I did, whether it was right or wrong. I grinded, I out, hustled. I did all these things. You have to celebrate that and recognize I'm a badass. I did this. But those things aren't going to get you to the next level. Okay? So it got you here. It's not going to get you where you know you should already be. Okay? You know deep down that you're capable of more. You're. You're not at your full potential. Don't get sad, don't get depressed. Celebrate that you're where you're at because you're. You're further along than most other people. Everybody else has already quit, so now let's just get to the next level. So you're. Right now, it's just. You're exchanging way too much of your life for things that don't matter, that don't deserve priority. So get intentional, Prioritize, take action. That's all I got. I got these wild things in my brain, you guys, and I, am so committed to helping you change your life. I want to do whatever I can. And so I share these things with love, with intention, with some of the things of the things that I regret not doing or doing in my past. So I want to help you out. So the hard part is implementing. But go implement. And if you can't schedule a full day right now, then, you know, schedule an hour. And then after a while, you can schedule two hours, then four hours, then six hours. Like, you can build yourself up to this, but it starts with intention.

Melissa and John are guests on the show this week

All right, guys, it's time to get rolling with our guests. Are you guys ready? I am ready. Let's get pumped. What is up? What is up? Welcome to the show. Melissa and John. How are you guys doing?

Good. How are you?

We're doing great. Thanks for having us on.

I don't know if you can tell, but I'm pretty excited to have you guys on the show.

We're excited to be here.

John and Melissa share their story about how they got into landscape lighting

So, before we kind of jump into this, I'd like to just maybe have you guys introduce yourselves. I met John at our very first landscape lighting live. And so that was, I don't know, a few years ago. And I remember you coming down there and I was. And I was in awe of everybody who showed up because that was the first time we'd ever done that. And I'll be forever grateful for everyone who showed up because, I mean, you're taking a risk, you know, but, maybe introduce yourselves and how you got into the lighting industry and why we're on this, podcast together.

Yeah, so I started doing landscape lighting about eight, nine years ago. M doing Hardscapes and then kind of fell in love with lighting. I found you in your program, went down to Florida. We did the training program and I kind of based my business around it and I kind of tested the waters for a little bit, seeing, you know, if I thought I could do this full time. And we were up in Indiana at the time and then we decided that this was going to be a good thing in our lives and we decided to move to Louisiana, actually relocate. I kind of restarted the business and at that time Melissa was working and she decided that she was going to hop on board with us and now we're in a full time together.

I wouldn't say I was willing. I wasn't really willing at first. So he started it part time really in Indiana. and then it was like a big decision. I remember him coming down there for that training and I was like, ah, ah, I don't know. That's a plane ticket. That seems like, are we really doing this? Because I kind of thought it was more of like going to be a side hobby type thing, to be honest. and then I wasn't involved in the company at all in Indiana. And once I saw him start selling jobs and what people actually will spend on landscape lighting, I was like, okay, you know, this could be a thing. so then, yeah, I decided to quit my career and jump in.

That's amazing. So talk about that. That when he tells you he's going to go to Florida to go to landscape lighting live. That sounded crazy, right?

A little, yeah. Because I didn't really see lighting as being like a sole business. You know, I'm like, I know he had worked for my cousin before and I'm like that I get, they had, you know, they mowed yards, they did landscaping, hardscapes, patios and lighting. And I'm like, okay, well that makes sense. And he's like, no, no, we're just gonna open a lighting business. I'm like, I don't think we're gonna do that at all. But go ahead and like play around with it. And then he comes up with this, you know, program. He's gonna go attend this conference and stay down in Florida by himself for a couple days. I'm like, yeah, okay, that sounds great. But it was so awesome learning.

Experience and it changed our lives forever.

So that is so cool. I think, you know, there's, there's it's Hard for a spouse to support an entrepreneur because, like, what if they are crazy? Like, what. What if it is a bad idea? You know, and there's all these what ifs? And I think there's a lot of people that are held back because of their friends, their family, their spouse. And I don't know who's to blame. I mean, let's, face it, a lot of people start businesses and fail. So it's pretty justified concern for someone to be like, wait, you're going to be a lighting business? And the same thing happened to me. My family was like, they heard what they wanted to hear, and they were like, oh, landscaping? And I'm like, okay, we'll just run with that.

We get that a lot because it.

Sounds crazy, you know, like, wait, you can make money and support your family just doing outdoor lighting?

Yeah.

So, well, that's cool. I was, again, like, extremely grateful for you and the other people who showed up, because, like, I didn't really have. That was the first one. I didn't have any evidence at the time to be like, yeah, you should come to this. You know, John came and here's the case study on him or anything like that, you know, so that was cool. And honestly, that was such a freaking awesome experience. And what made it was the people like you guys all showed up. Everyone was there willing to learn, share their ideas, all that stuff. So that was amazing.

We watched hours of recordings when he came home because he sat in, like, video. So we would sit and take notes when he got back so I could learn.

That was great content.

That's cool.

Melissa says moving to Louisiana was an overnight decision

So fast forward at some point, Melissa, you're like, okay, like, the business is doing good enough. I should. I should just be part of the business.

Yeah, it was definitely a big decision. I mean, I had a career working at the hospital, and, you know, I held the insurance for our family. We have kids, so it was not an easy call. we talked. Honestly, I'd say a lot about it, but I don't even know if that's true. It was kind of an overnight decision. We were literally driving home from a vacation with our kids, and I said, I think we should move to Louisiana. And he was like, what? And I'm like, well, if you want me to join this business, it's not going to be in Indiana because I'm never gonna leave my job. You know, it just. We're gonna have to relocate, and I want to go where it's not gonna snow or we can do it year round. And he Literally said, okay. I called my dad that night to see if we could move in with him temporarily until we found a house. And we put our house up for sale in about two days after that.

Wow.

So it was impulsive.

It was very impulsive.

So, that's why it was Louisiana. Is because you had family down there.

Yeah, my sister and my dad are here. so. And we, you know, vacationed here multiple times. So I knew the area. I know there's, you know, money here and a good place to start a company. I saw the potential. So, we went for it.

Also not as seasonal as. Yeah, where the snow is a couple months a year, so that helps.

I love it, man. Go all in. Rip the bandaid off. And like you said, you. You don't have the temptation of, like, well, I'll just work, you know, 30 hours a week and then I'll do this on the side. It's like, no, we're just going.

Yeah, yeah. Had to. Had to just jump in.

How long have you been doing this business in Louisiana? Two years now

So.

So when. What year was that? How long have you been doing it in Louisiana?

that was April of 2022. So only not even three years yet. Two and a half years.

Okay. What was the hardest part that first year?

Man, there's probably the struggle to get. Well, we came down here, we started off really, really hot. came down as a new company, got a couple really good jobs, get going, and then I guess we didn't market enough. we kind of, like, we. We weren't riding that train. We weren't having that momentum go forward. We kind of were, like, doing a job at a time and then trying to find the next job. And we've learned other ways to do that now. but we're basically just putting out yard signs, doing, some Google Ads. And now we have more direction and really trying to hone in our processes, getting more quality leads now. And now we're starting to find much more success in that.

Nice.

I think. I think, too, we were just so new to the business because he had only really started on his own for a couple months, maybe a year, not even. And was a year in Indiana, but we were still changing so much, you know, like, we were redoing our product lines, and we made so many changes from the Indiana business that we kind of restarted. And then to when I came in on it, that it was just such a busy year of a lot of change and a lot of learning. It was just hard to get that momentum going at first.

Like, how did you get your first few jobs you said you started off and felt pretty confident, like, man, this is. This is going to be yard signs.

You put yard signs, yard signs everywhere.

That's awesome.

Yeah. And, one of our first jobs we signed here was, you know, significantly larger job than I've ever done. and when we got it, I was like, I can't believe we're getting this. I can't believe we're getting this. And it was off a yard sign. He's like, you know, I've seen your yard signs everywhere. I figure, you know, somebody this eager to work, you know, let's give them a shot. So. Worked out in our favor.

Still a customer of ours, too.

Yeah. One of our better customers. Yeah.

Are you still putting out yard signs?

We do, we do.

Cool.

just ordered new ones, actually.

Yeah, goes every, every customer's yard. there's a few corners and areas that we like to work in that we always put them there. And we're actually starting to see the benefits of that now because people are like, oh, yeah, I see your signs. I've seen you. I've seen you. You know, because we always ask every customer, you know, how'd you hear about us?

Well, it's interesting because, I think yard signs seems like, oh, yeah, I know about yard signs. But, like, tell me the real secrets, you know, and it's like, well, that's like the foundation, like, you just mentioned. Like, even if you do, someone gets a lead, like, even a referral, they're like. But I also see. They always mention, like, multiple things. But I also see your yard signs and I see your wrapped trucks, like, they mention all of it. I call it the marketing mix. And it all helps build value. It all helps build authority. So for sure, that's awesome.

One with those two, I think people think they're going to put one out and then get a call tomorrow from it. And that's not how it works. I've noticed like, a lady, actually, we just got a call this week and she was like, yeah, I took a picture of your sign like a month ago. You did? One of my neighbors and I finally got around to calling. So it's like, even though you may not see, like an instant return on it, they will, you know, they take a picture. It eventually comes through.

John and Melissa put yard signs in busy intersections for clients

Well, you guys put them out, not, just in your, clients yards, but will you put them in other places as well?

Yeah.

Where? What, what kind of locations?

Mostly busy intersections.

Honestly, infated communities that are like our ideal client homes.

Love it.

We'll Always make sure they're there. And even if they're there for a week, we go put it back. You know, it's a yard sign. It's four or five bucks. Who cares?

You're doing like the corrugated like four or five dollar ones, right?

Yep.

Yeah. Cool. what's something that you look back because. And you know, you guys still have. You guys. I love your guys story because, John, I mean you're okay. I met you, but then meeting Melissa, I was like, dude, you guys are like a powerhouse, okay? Like you guys get along. You, I mean maybe not all the time, but like you do well in public, okay. And like you, you have this desire and you have this intention and you, a lot of people just don't take it serious. And I'm like, how are you not taking this serious? This is your life. This isn't just your life today, but this is your kids legacy. This is your legacy with your kids and like all this stuff. But you guys have that. Where, where does that come from?

I think we both, we got a lot of talks about that or about our business and just, we always say like, there's not an option for failure here. So what's the next step? You know, like, how are we going to fix this? Or if we're slow. Okay, well what are we going to do? Because we're not allowed to fail. And we always talk about our goal is that I never have to go back to my other career, you know, which I loved it. But you know, that's not an option. We're not going to have this fallback plan, you know, it's this or nothing. So kind of not giving yourself an out, like there is no out. This has to work. So what are we going to do to make it work? where it comes from, I guess. Our families, honestly, our families grew up that way.

And we, we strive for perfection. We're not saying that we're perfect in everything we do, but everything we do, we try to do it the best that we can do it. you know, we definitely make mistakes, but we learn from them. But at the end of all of our jobs, we've done it the best that we're capable of doing. and I think that's starting to show in our community a lot now.

When you learn from your dad too. His dad was a business owner. so I mean you grew up watching him run a company, you know, and be successful. So there's definitely some background there.

You mentioned, uh, John, like getting started. How did you guys find time to do that

You mentioned, John, like getting started. You'd go sell a job and then go install a job and then like, oh yeah, crap, we have to go get another job. And I call it the roller coaster effect.

Yeah.

Where it's like, I mean you have like the highest of highs and then all of a sudden like the lowest of lows. What, what did you do? What were some of the things that you did to help? You know, it's still always like that. I found that business is always a roller coaster. It's just that you have, you want to try to minimize the lows. Right. And increase the peak. So what did you guys do to help, improve that?

well, we're working on a new website now, that's hopefully going to get us some more leads, SEO, that kind of stuff. But fine tuning our processes in the meantime in those lows. So we're still working on our business. so when we do get those leads, we're able to close them much faster, much, more efficient. what else?

I think that was the biggest aha moment since we joined the program is we kept saying, oh, it's the leads. We need more leads, we need more leads. And yes, everybody needs more leads. But when you really look at it, when I look at the pile of people we've had as leads and didn't close, like that was the thing I thought we need to work on first. I don't need 10,000 leads if I can close 90% of the ones I am getting instead of 50%. So I think really realizing where the weaknesses were. Yes, we still want to get more leads. And marketing is always a nightmare for everybody. Everybody knows that. That's, you know, one of the hardest things I think in business. But like you said, fine tuning what we are doing, the sales process, the qualifying calls, the, you know, emails to the clients, all those things have made a huge difference.

That's cool. Well, I mean, you're right. Like everyone is always just wants more leads. And it's a hard thing to admit, especially if you think you're good at sales, which I think I'm good at sales. But like, numbers don't lie. And you go and you, and you start tracking that stuff. Suddenly you're like, I'm not as good at sales as I thought I was. And then you make excuses and you're like, well yeah, but that lady, you know, she was kind of a jerk. And like, and it's like, no, you're not as good at sales as you think you are. That's a hard reality for someone like myself. And so when you do track that, it's like, wait a minute, like, instead of trying to get more water into the bucket, what if we plug some of these holes? And then it's like, well, I only have to close like two more jobs a month to really kind of like make the difference here. And that's why, like, tracking your numbers and being intentional with your time and work, being a business owner, to even have time to do that, which is really, really hard at first, but that's why that makes a huge difference. So I'm glad. How did you guys find time to do that?

We joined your program. We're making this. It's hard. It's. Honestly, that's probably the hardest thing is time. But, we were talking before the show that we're doing Christmas lights right now. So we do Christmas lights in City Park. So we have an hour drive each way. And that's our, honestly, our time right now. We watch, you know, the, the Academy, we crunch numbers, we look at our sales. I work on our emails. Like, that's kind of when the business work is happening right now. So you'd have 11 o'clock at night a lot of times, honestly, late nights. it's when you find them, you got to make the time.

Dude. I, I mean, I don't love that, that it's, it's so chaotic right now where you're like filling in the cracks. But I love the, the meaning behind it because I'm telling you, everyone says they want to go on vacation, but they're not willing to pay for it. You know, it's like, of course I want to go to this extravagant thing. I want this dream life. But you guys, that's. You're paying for it. You're saying, you know what? I'm gonna. Instead of just like not think about anything for this hour long drive to our work site or whatever, we're working on our business. And it's easy for me to be like, but just schedule Fridays, you know, and you'll get there, you know, but it starts with what you guys are doing. Everyone else just makes excuses. So I love that about you. I don't love that it's like hard. And I don't want you to get the wrong thing here. But I love that you guys are willing to put in the work. And these are, these are investments. These are time investments that pay off. And you guys are already starting to see it.

We really are. yeah, we put in all the work like you say. And, we're getting ready to start enjoying some of the benefits by hiring people, you know, kind of becoming more of the entrepreneurs that we started this business to be instead of working in it as much as we currently are.

I love it.

You mentioned pre qualifying. A lot of people are afraid to pre qualify

What were some of your. you mentioned pre qualifying. A lot of people are afraid to pre qualify because it's like, well, what if we lose an opportunity? what were some of your aha, uh-huh. Moments or things that you changed?

He's going to point at me because that's my problem. I was definitely one of those people. I'll admit that right up front. I was terrible at pre qualifying before we really joined the program. And I'm honestly following the script. And it feels so awkward at first, but now I don't use it. I just talk. But, it makes such a difference. And everyone. It's the price thing. It's getting that number out there and just getting rid of the tire kickers saves you so much time. And I think that's the change happened because he was getting really angry coming home from so many meetings that were a waste of time. so I realized, you know, I had to buckle down because I answer the phone 99% of time right now anyway. So I had to get over not wanting to throw numbers out to people and just do it. And I think that's why. One of the main reasons our close rate too, has increased so much is our people know they have given them our minimum. I've given them the average home. I've asked them their budget. We've had all those conversations before he even shows up. so, yes, we may have less meetings on the calendar at sometimes. You know, I've definitely had ones that said, no, thanks. I've had multiple that have said that. And I'm like, that's fine. I'm like, there's anything we can do in the future, let me know. You know, I tell them we have other services and whatnot, and that's fine. It's not like it's. No one cusses you out. No one's mad at you. I've actually had somebody email me back a thank you. They declined and then said, thank you so much for being upfront about your pricing. I really appreciated that. So, honestly, they do like that you do that.

Yeah, well. And, you know, if you do, like a time audit, I've done this before. I don't do it often, but, like, how long does it take, John, for you? You have an appointment on the calendar. How long does it actually Take for you to drive there, do the appointment and either come home or go to the next appointment. Like what's the total time of that?

So we're working on smoothing that up. I would say before was probably at least two hours.

Yep.

we've been working on these processes and we've sped it up exponentially faster. the other day we did a quote for Christmas lights, audio and landscape lights in the front and back in less than 45 minutes.

together.

It doesn't, it doesn't always work that way. Yeah, we were together, so that helped. that was kind of a rare occasion. But because of our processes, because the way we're pricing now, it's just made it easier, it's made it so much faster than trying to, you know, oh, I need 50 more dollars for this light because of this application or something like that.

and the reason I ask, I guess is for a couple reasons. you know, people think, well, I don't want to, I don't want to get rid of these leads because I can go sell. But then John's coming home frustrated, like, I don't know, I thought I had them, but then they just thought it was too much money or whatever. Right. And so that M is basically just a waste of two hours. And so if that happens, let's just say on average two times a week, sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. Depends on someone's business. But that's four hours a week. If you give me four hours in a week to go call on referral partners, I'm going to make a lot more money than zero. Right. And maybe not this week. Again, it's like yard signs. You're like planting seeds out there, but that's going to, that's going to pay off down the road. So a lot of people are busy and they're going out and doing quotes and meeting with people and they feel like, hey, I'm an entrepreneur and this is what it is and it's time sacrifice. But like you're learning to be efficient with your time and say yes to the revenue producing activities and no to the non.

I think in the beginning it just my viewpoint was if the calendar was full of meetings, that was success. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, there's 10 meetings this week. We are killing this. And that was so false. I'm like, I would rather have two good meetings than 10 baloney meetings that weren't going to really do anything in the first place. So I Just had to, like, it's a total mindset change, you know, of how you look at successful weeks.

I guess I love that.

Was pricing ever an issue for you guys when you joined the program

Well, I don't know if this changed or not, John, because you said you took a lot from the original landscape lighting live, and you're like, hey, I mean, I don't really know anything else. I'm just going to run my business off this stuff for better or for worse. Right, right. so it's interesting because when you joined the program, you already had applied some of those strategies. was pricing ever an issue? Like, I do see a lot of people that can't figure out how to price. And, you know, we teach a flat rate pricing strategy. that's hard for some people. Was that ever an issue for you guys?

Yeah, I mean, obviously pricing always is because, you know, you try, we, we try to do the tiered levels, that's all good, but then you fall into, you know, losing bids. So then you try to lower your price. And, you know, we kind of fell into that trap for a little bit trying to keep up with the landscaper who's thrown in the light for $175. And then we can compete with that. And we know we're better than that. and now since we've joined the program, our confidence level is higher than ever. so we were able to raise our prices exponentially and actually land more jobs now too, as well. So, as far as has that, was that an issue? It was, and now we're implying it, and it's working even better.

I think we overcomplicated it before, too. We were trying like, okay, a corelight is this and a second story light is this number. And we've had it so broken apart. And that's why the quoting process when he's at a meeting was taking so long because you're doing 170 calculations and trying to get to this magic number. It just doesn't need that hard. You know what I mean? So now we've simplified it to mid grade premium rgb. And it is what it is, you know, cool.

I love it.

Charge enough that it covers it all.

So, yeah, I love it. You m mentioned that you just had that quote. You did audio, and holiday.

Uh, let's talk about some of these other services. Audio lighting is something we've dipped into recently

let's talk about some of these other services. I, know you guys are doing permanent now. which. What do you like? What do you like about the different ones? What do you not like about the different ones? What are you guys going to do in the future?

Well, audio is something we're definitely, dipped into in the last year here. Actually, the first one we did was on our house. We put in a pool. So we kind of were testing the waters with that. We learned, how it pairs with landscape lighting so much, can really put the wires in the same trench. so it's really smooth. So something we offer, we don't really promote it, but we offer it as an additional service when we're at the customer's homes, and a lot of people bite on it or they keep it in the back of their mind, and we expect calls in return from it. And then as far as the permanent track lighting, I was never really a fan of it. However, we get a lot of calls for it this time of year, obviously. and I think the technology has really come a long ways in it now, and there's better products out there. So we're excited to dip our feet into the water with that. a little more. We've got maybe a dozen of them out there now, but, something we're definitely looking forward to adding in the.

Future year and are. So is there a lot more demand for that now? I know out west it's crazy, and I feel like it's a fire that's just moving across the U.S. yeah, we.

Have Mardi Gras here, too. So that's like an added holiday, where a lot of people will do temporary Mardi Gras lights. And now everybody's migrating towards this like, crazy.

It really just started last year. Like, we weren't. Honestly, we weren't going to do it. We were like, yeah, we don't want to do the permanent lighting. so last year, yeah, last year we honestly gave those referrals to another company. and then we were like, well, this is silly. We should probably learn this and add this in because it blew. We got so many calls last year for it. But the problem is everybody calls right now and wants it by Christmas and it's not going to happen. so I think was it that we went to a training and I think it was there that they gave the idea of offer them temporary Christmas lights for this year, and then you can give them a little break when installing their permanent, like in January and February. So set yourself up for next spring to have some extra work and then still make everybody happy. So we're trying to kind of do that plan right now because there's just. With our holiday lighting businesses, we're not gonna be able to get all these permanent ones up before, you know, Thanksgiving, like They want it.

Yeah. Nice.

You guys are in the trenches right now with holiday lighting and landscape lighting

and then talk to me about holiday lighting. You guys are in the trenches right now.

Yeah, it's a lot. I'm not gonna lie. It's awesome. I love it. I like the balance. when we first started doing holiday lighting here in Louisiana, it was the same thing. We're like, no, we're landscape lighting people only. This is what we do. And if we get a couple calls. Well, we honestly didn't advertise it the first year here at all. I, think we did 40 houses or something like that the first year without anything.

Maybe.

Did we even boulevard signs the first year? Yeah, maybe we did. but, you know, you're a lighting company. You're going to get the calls. So then we decided, okay, that's a real thing too. We're going to blow that up. so now we do City park of New Orleans. We got them last year and we're doing that right now. So it's busy. And I like the balance because at about the time I'm tired of digging trenches for landscape light, we switch gear and get to go to holiday lighting. and then when I'm tired of hanging holiday lights, it switches back, you know, so it is a nice balance. We're having to do both at the same time right now, which is a great problem to have, because the calls for landscape lighting aren't pausing like we've had happen in the past. So, we're trying to figure out that balance and we know we need to hire, to fix that problem. So that's the plan.

Yeah. The fast pace of Christmas lights is very fun because you get a lot of calls, you get a lot of contacts. we find that a lot of the jobs that we do for the temporary holiday lights really turn into great customers for us because they turn into landscape jobs in the future.

Nice.

and that's where a lot of our really good quality leads came from, the last couple of years.

I know, I agree. I, I don't know. I probably shouldn't say this out loud, but I can't stand holiday lighting because of the timeline. Yeah, I agree.

It's so stressful.

I don't want the stress.

It's. I'm not gonna lie. This, this last week, I think we had our first, like, mental breakdown already. I'm not even November yet. but it's. It's a lot. It's so fast paced and it's constant quoting and like, so that's what we're doing in the car rides Right now is just throwing quotes and stuff and it's. I, it's fun and exciting, but it is exhausting for sure.

And then every year there's always somebody who has a party on December 20th or something they want. They're a great, great landscape lighting job. They want that done by December 20th. We're trying to mix that and that's our bread and butter. So we're not going to give that up ever. Yeah. I'd rather lose a couple holiday lighting jobs than a great landscape lighting job all day. So.

But I do think the, the, the kind of like perfect lighting company does holiday, does permanent, does landscape because like you, you already mentioned, they, they feed each other. So like go do the holiday, suck it up. Make it work. Because that's going to give you a 10, 20 thousand dollar landscape lighting job.

Yeah.

And we've actually done homes where we've done permanent lighting and up lighting on the same house too. They don't have to be one or the other. We have done both on a home.

That's cool. So, you've had a lead for permanent and then you end up selling them landscape lighting.

We did, yeah.

That is so cool. I've heard of others in the program too and I'm like, that's why you can't, like, like you can hate permanent. That's okay. I can't change your beliefs but like just do it as a business owner, like get over yourself. Do it and grow your business.

You need to for sure. It's not something that's going away. I don't think if anything we're getting more calls this year than we even did last year. So I think like you said, it's, it's a fire that's spreading well.

And it's interesting because when you look at the different business segments, holiday lighting, I could like walk down my street with just a sign on my forehead that says holiday lighting and get leads. Okay. It's, it's like pretty easy. Landscape lighting and oh, and permanent lighting. Same thing. Like you can run a Facebook ad for permanent lighting for holiday lighting. Like ads work. Landscape lighting, it doesn't work. Like, that's just, it's, it's, it's a, it's a harder thing, which is both a blessing and curse at the same time. It's awesome because it keeps the perceived barrier to entry high into landscape lighting. So it's not like we're ever going to have like a thousand people like you know, Christmas lights, permanent lights, whatever. But then it does make It a little bit more challenging to generate leads. So you know, it's like there's trade offs. You know, if you want leads to be easy, you're going to get into an industry that's going to be a lot more crowded. If leads are going to be a little bit harder, it's going to be a bit harder. But then there's ways to solve it.

True, very good point.

What are you guys doing to solve the uh, landscape lighting lead flow

What are you guys doing to solve the landscape lighting lead flow? What have you guys done to in some of your marketing efforts?

We finally just recently actually hired a company. so our original website, the one that's up right now, was built by a good friend of ours who kind of does it as a side business which has worked great. But we just hired a company that's rebuilding that and is going to run our SEO and that way it, you know, stays updated and maintained now. And then, we also hired them to do social, media ads. So I have somebody running ads for us because I've literally taken online courses and taught myself, which clearly I'm not the greatest at that. It's not my strong suit and learn that. So that's helped a lot though because we're getting quality leads whereas before we're not getting so many tire kickers coming through. They really know how to hone it into areas and you know, people that have that extra income that can spend on, yeah, our products. So that's probably the biggest thing lately.

And I've been really surprised with that too. Hiring somebody to take that off our plate, doing the marketing. But the quality of leads in the areas that it is in, have been so much m better because we were getting stuff that was an hour and a half away like all the time when we were trying to do it by ourselves. And now I mean they're the areas that we want.

So that's been great.

Is it, Are you guys doing Google Ads or SEO?

We're doing all of it right now. I got social media ads, Google Ads and SEO.

Okay, very cool. Well, it's hard because like there's a lot of agencies out there and marketing companies that have, you know, not worked for people. So then it's just kind of like, we'll just do it ourselves. But if you look at lighting, for example, like people, people could go do their own landscape lighting. There's Home Depot, Lowe's, online, all this stuff. And it's like you could do it yourself, you could do the marketing yourself, but you could hire an expert and have such a better experience. So as long as you find the right company, run with it. That's great.

Yeah. I think our issue is with all parts of business, we're just control freaks with it. Like we're always like, I can, I can just do it. That's always our personality, which is a blessing and a curse. You know, it's good that I can do attitude. But we've definitely have to learn to relinquish some of the control in some of the areas of the business if we want to grow more. So working on that.

Yeah, well, it's hard. I recently shared I learned this from a book buy back your time and it's the 108010 principle. And you guys are in that stage right now where a lot of stuff's going to be coming off your plate. You've done it with marketing, you're starting to do it with some of your labor. and this is the hardest, every stage of your business is the hardest part. Starting growing all this stuff. So it's hard because of that control. the 108010 is basically like you get started so you hire an installer and you're like, hey, you're going to go do this, I'm going to start the install 10%. They trench, they bury, they do the connections, then you come back and volt test and make sure everything's done and then they finish it up. So it's like you get to put your final stamp of approval. That's a strategy that is great for delegation.

In the next year, we're definitely planning on hiring at least two full time installers

what are you guys planning on doing? What's the future of your company look like over the next six months? One year?

Well, I think we have a lot of our processes in line and we've been working on that lately. So that way there when we is time to hire, we can get them in there, we can apply the rule just like you're saying that 108010 rule. and start to thrive with that. Because in the next year, I mean we're definitely planning on hiring at least two full time installers. have them go into Christmas lights as well. And then

Hm.

Yeah, just a clarification. We have no employees right now. So I know you know that, everybody knows that. so right now it's us doing like I said, I answer the phones, I do the books at night and he goes to the meetings and we both install together and we're hanging all the Christmas lights. So our definite next year looks like at least two installers on the team where I'm more out of the field first so I can do more of the monitoring of the marketing. Not that I want to take that back, but just controlling that a little bit more. do the book, do the referral, you know, call referral partners. And we haven't even gotten into the marketing section of the programs where focusing on the sales part first. And there's just, we have a lot of, a lot of room to grow for sure when we get at least me out of the field first and then him out of the field second.

Well, it's honestly amazing to me how much you guys get done without a team. You know what I mean? And it's, it's awesome. But at the same time, I'm like, let's go. Like, it's time. Because right now you are doing those 25, $30 an hour activities. You know, your, your time is worth way more than that. I mean, you're, you guys have the experience, you have the intelligence, you have the ability, like, you're, you're there to, to move to $200 an hour activities. And we all have the same amount of time. So the sooner that we can get you guys there, the better. And it's hard because you have to give up control. And then you got to train someone and then it's like, what if they screw up? And, and like you said, John, you're like, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're striving for excellence here. And now some random person with no experience, can they even do this? You know, and they can as long as you do the 1080, 10.

Yep.

I think it's just, it's just a decision you have to make. You know, we, we went from struggling in the beginning to start. You know, everyone struggles when they first start a business. You're trying to pay your bills. And now we got comfortable in the last, like, year and a half and we've just been kind of coasting and it's been good and it's just really making that decision. You know, we sat down. Are we gonna blow this thing up or we're just gonna kind of stay comfortable? You know, we can maintain this if we really want to, but. And just, it's really just making that decision to say, nope, it's time. Just commit, you know, jump in.

Yeah. And it's, it's hard because like, you guys are in a place now where like, like you said, like, life's pretty good. I mean, you're tired, you got to work a lot, but you're making lots of money. Like you're providing for yourselves, you're providing for your family. So that's awesome. And it's easy to get stuck there in kind of coast. What, what motivates me to challenge you guys is like, well, what happens if you get hurt? What happens if you get sick? Like, yeah, it's a great thing now, but it's, it's not, there's no guarantee. it's like people that are like afraid to start their own business because like, well, I have a job and it's pretty steady. Well, you could get fired tomorrow, you know, and we're always one accident away from like being unemployed. And so it's like I'm big on building a business up to a couple million dollars. Not necessarily because I'm like money motivated. But like that's the size of business that runs with, with redundancy. And you don't just have like one install team, you have two install teams. So if one of them, you know, gets fed up and walks off the job, you at least still have a business. You have not just one person in the office, two people in the office. Because if someone's sick, it's not you filling in. And that's to me a perfect business. It doesn't mean that. What if people want to stay small? Like where you guys are at sometimes you can make more money. You know what I mean? it's just, you know, how bad do you want it and how willing are you to keep doing it?

Right? And that's kind of what happened this year. We had, I had some medical stuff this past summer, so I was actually out for six weeks. Out of the field for six weeks. And I think that was one of the biggest eye opening moments was like, oh, shoot, everyone talks about that could happen. But now it really did. so I was one of the big pushes I think for us to.

Yeah, and it was good because it was summertime, so we had some high school kids come out and help us. they did all the grunt work. And we actually did kind of apply that 108010 rule because I did maybe more of the difficult tasks on the install. They did all the trenching, all the bearing. Most was at home.

You know, being so productive on the computer was so nice. I got so much done on the computers.

But I mean that was a great few month stretch for us. So that's something we're definitely diving into next year and trying to get our business to that level, and even thrive more to the points where you were just talking, where we're kind of just involved in the business when we want to be involved in the business, not because we have to.

Right.

Yeah. Well. And, you know, it's kind of interesting because I'm in a position now where I'm. I feel a little bit of a hypocrite because, this business, I mean, if I, if I don't show up at some point, it's not going to keep going. You know, we have coaches, we have. We have like a pretty good business, but I still have things I need to do. And, it's hard. It's really, really hard to do. But, it is possible. So, talk to me, I guess as we'll kind of wrap up here.

Any tips you can share for those other, ah, uh, married team members

Any tips you can share for those other, ah, married team members? What's, what's. What are some tips to, work together as husband and wife?

Man. I'll say. I'll go first.

Okay.

I. It's not as hard as you think because we have a common goal. Right. our daily goal is the same, so it makes it very easy to go out, do a job, work together. You know, we share our good days together, we share our wins. when we have our losses, we share those together too, and we build on it. We can brainstorm how to fix it, how to make it better the next day. and that's really, I mean, just for an example, two days ago, we were down in City park doing some Christmas lights, and we're. It was a new product we were installing. We were unprepared. We didn't really know how to do it. We went out, first day was miserable. We were like, oh, we're going to quit. We're done, we're done, we're done. next day, you know, we came home, we thought about, we talked about it, came up with a better strategy, went out there, and we did, you know, four times the work we did in less hours. So it was great.

That's awesome.

The harder part is, I think, separating work from your married life, though. So we're such co workers all the time that, you know, we'll try to go out to dinner and we talk about lights the whole time. And like, we'll try to be like, hey, we can't talk about lights tonight. And we last like 10 minutes and then it goes back to business. So I think that's the hardest thing is to, you have to be really intentional about having, like, husband and wife time still. That's not related to the Business. So it's, it's not even the work. Like we don't fight at work. Everyone's like, how do you work with your spouse? I mean, we don't half time. We barely talk because we know our roles. Like we're so well oiled machines now. Like on an install, I know what he's gonna go do first, he knows what I'm gonna go first. And it just happens. Like we just run well together. It's more like the non business stuff that's harder to be honest.

How about, uh, finances? Has that ever been a problem

How about, finances? Has that ever been a problem? Especially if it's one of the down cycles.

We honestly, I don't think I've ever thought about money. That's one thing. Like I'm, we had a lot of talks about that in the beginning of the business. And I said that's the one thing we're never allowed to fight about or become a stressor in our life. So I do the books and things like that and he sees it all. Nothing's secret from one or the other. But we've never really had fights. Are we stressed sometimes when it was slow.

Yeah, has its ups and downs.

But then like you, we work on it together. It's not, we've never let it become, you know, a super negative problem.

I guess I feel like you guys are very disciplined, you know, like you're the, the, the point of like striving for perfection, excellence. It translates in all areas of your life. And so you know, finance. I was talking to Lindsey about this. I'm like, how come you always support me? Like, how come that, like, because I talk to a lot of different, people and sometimes whether they're in the business or not, the spouse is like, well, I don't think you should go to that event or I don't think you should join that program. Or you know, they're kind of like holding them back. And I think some of it comes down to that the finances aren't there, like they don't have money and that the. But the budget's not there and all that stuff. And I've always just naturally been good at that and make assumptions that everyone else is. But it's not true. I feel like that might be part of it too is you guys have always made sure that you've had enough for sure.

We're definitely disciplined. where neither of us are spenders, neither of us are shoppers, we don't, you know, I mean, I know in a lot of relationships you've got like the one that's carefree with it all and doesn't really know what's in the bank and just shops or whatever. And neither of us have that personality. We're not like, go out to eat people. We like to cook at home. I'm not a shopper. I mean, Amazon will get you sometimes, but yeah. so, I mean, our personalities are pretty in line when it comes to finances, so it just. It works.

M.J.: I look up to you guys. I learned from everybody

Awesome. Well, man, thanks so much for coming on here. I truly do look up to you guys. I know that I'm, you know, the one that has the program and the podcast and stuff like that, but I learned from everybody. I've learned a lot from you guys already. I appreciate your candor. I appreciate your willingness to dive in and implement, and it means so much. I appreciate you guys and just thanks for sharing your story with us.

Thanks, M. For having us.

Yeah, thanks for having us.

Appreciate it.

Go implement. Right? So go, go, uh, take something that you learned from the Kajowskis

All right, guys, now the hard part. Go implement. Right? So go, go, take something that you learned from, the Kajowskis today and go get it done. Thanks for being an example to the lighting community, guys.

Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Have a good one.

All right, See ya. It.