Lighting for Profits - Episode 173

This week on the show we welcome, Andy Thomas with nearly two decades of expertise, this seasoned lighting designer and business owner has been shaping the industry since 2005. As a former President of the Association of Outdoor Lighting Professionals (AOLP), he has held influential roles that drive both innovation and industry standards. His journey includes countless successful projects, a deep commitment to excellence, and an unwavering dedication to elevating the art and functionality of lighting design. Known for a refined eye and technical precision, he brings a blend of creativity and practical know-how, consistently delivering results that exceed expectations.

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Episode Transcript

We discuss everything you need to know to start and grow a successful landscape lighting business

Welcome to Lighting for Profits.

All Light. All Light All Light powered by Emery Allen.

Get rid of your excuses.

Your number one source for all things landscape lighting. That's where the magic can happen. You can really scale a business. We really had to show up for each other from lighting design, install sales and marketing. You're a scaredy cat salesman, Kurt. We discuss everything you need to know to start and grow a successful landscape lighting business. What do you think a hippo has to do with your business, Ryan? Usually it's some weird childhood thing. Bully kicked your butt. I think the key factor here is trust. Here is your host, Ryan Lee.

A, lot, A lot of light. Welcome. Welcome to the show. I'm Ryan Lee, your host of Lighting for Profits, powered by Emory Allen. Fighting a cold. We are doing this. It's, you know, I don't know if you guys know this, but just, came out. We're the, number one landscape lighting show in Sacramento, California. What's up? We are, here to educate, motivate, to help you dominate. So if you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, you're definitely in the right place. We've got some, awesome conversation coming up. We got, Mr. I guess emeritus status president, Andy Thomas, with Viewpoint Lighting, and I'm excited to have him on. if you don't know Andy, you're going to get to know him on the show. and if you do know him, you know he's a walking encyclopedia. He's been in the industry a long time and, he knows a lot of stuff. he's also a humble dude, but I don't know that if I've asked him a question that he hasn't been able to either answer himself or find the answer. So I'm, super excited to have him on. We're gonna, we're gonna kind of get in the trenches a little bit and pick, his brain. I'm, super excited to have him on.

I encourage you to ask for reviews in your business

So, before we have him on, I want to thank you guys for your support. we've got, more reviews coming in and I've been getting more reviews, I think, because I'm asking for more reviews. So thank you guys so much for doing that and encourage you to ask for reviews in your business. So you, know you ask a bunch of times and sometimes you don't get any, but sometimes you get some. So thank you guys so much for your support. Really, really appreciate it. And we're here on the show to just give as much value as possible. I, I wish I had something like this when I was in my business. So we're just trying to bring on guests and experts to share their stories. What works, what doesn't. So, so hopefully we can all figure this out together. So go give me that five star review on Apple or Spotify. I would appreciate it. Also guys, just a reminder, I'm giving away free strategy sessions right now until the end of the year. So go get scheduled now. I know a lot of people are busy with holiday lighting, but just don't procrastinate, don't wait, because it's not always going to be like this. My program is changing every single day, every single week. Go to landscape lightingsecrets. com click start now and watch that case study. Book a call with me. We'll get on the phone, map out the plan to see where you're at, where you want to be and see if we can help, bridge that gap. So, guys, again, in just a few minutes we're going to have Andy Thomas on, to start off the show.

Stay small is killing your business, says Landscape Lighting Secrets founder Tommy Mellon

I want to just share something real quick. So, you know, staying small is killing your business. And what I mean by that is, actually today, just, just today, inside Landscape Lighting Secrets, we had Tommy Mellon. He's the founder of A1 Garage Doors. This year he's, he reported he's going to do about $240 million. And he didn't start at 200 million. Like he's, he's been building this over the years and I've learned a lot from him. And you know, I started thinking, I'm like, you know, man, I remember there was a time in my business where I just wanted to coast. I got it to a spot where I was like, it's not too bad. It still required a lot of my time, but I just wanted to coast because I was like, it's not that bad. You know, I'm making pretty decent money and, and if I, you know, don't have to hire more people, that's probably a good thing. But, I've just seen too much and I know too much to know that like, if you can scale your business to a certain point, you're going to experience momentum, you're going to experience, it's going to get easier, right? And as business owners, we take on all this risk and then where's the reward? You know, what happens if you get hurt? What happens if something happens to you? What if you want to go on vacation for a month. Like, is that really possible? it's so much easier when you build these businesses to a little bit bigger, you know, And I'm not saying that everyone has to, you know, have a goal to build a $240 million business. Like, that's not what I'm saying at all. but there is these levels, like, once you get your business up to a couple million dollars, where you know what, like, you have a team in place, you have an actual business, you're not just self employed. Right. And a lot of times as entrepreneurs, we're not really entrepreneurs, we're just self employed. We're just writing our own paycheck. And in most cases, it would be better just to just go get a job for someone else because then you get health insurance and you get to stop working at 5:00. Right. The headaches never end as a small business owner.

Think about retaining your team members when you scale your business

And so let's talk about some of the benefits of you scaling your business, again, just to like a million or $2 million. We're not talking anything crazy here. But think about from a recruiting standpoint, like, we always complain about, like, oh, it's so hard to get people like, would you want to work for you? Like, if you saw an add on. Indeed. Or came in for a shop tour, spent a day or a week with your company, is that, is that exciting? Like, would you want to work for your business? Do you see potential? And is there like a career ladder? Like, am I going to come in and just dig trenches? Like, am I just going to like, twist wire? Like, is that what I'm going to do? that might be good for someone for a few years, but then what, right? Do they see that there's possibilities for growth and when you build a bigger business, you have that advantage. So it makes recruiting a lot easier. I look at like my business when it was doing, let's say a million dollars a year versus like a Tommy Mello business doing 240. Like, who would I want to go work for? Well, I'd rather go work for the company that has a lot of potential. Right. And a lot of opportunity for advancement. Think about retaining our team members. So let's say we get that person who's super stoked. They see your vision. They're like, yeah, I like this. This is a small business, family owned, like, we're going to do this. But then, like, then what? They go from like, a beginner technician to like, the senior tech, the foreman, and then what? Like Are they. Do they have an operations manager position that they could take over? Could they move up to gm? Is that even a possibility within the next few years? And honestly, like, no one ever gave me this permission, so I want to give you this permission. Like, do this or do put this plan in place to sell your business over the next three to five years. And if you don't sell it and you just collect mailbox money, then that's awesome. But like, put this plan in place right now that you are replaced, like your dead date, you're dying in your business three years, five years from now, but no more than five, right? Like, literally, like, put this in concrete and this is the. And then you can reverse engineer the plan to get there. You know, you. You really never get to focus on what you want. When we start our business, we're usually passionate about lighting in some way. We either like the design, the install, maybe both. Maybe we like sales, maybe we like doing with the client, but we rarely like all of it. We're not. Like, you know what, it's just so fun to be able to recruit, and it's just awesome building culture and it's awesome firing people and training. Like, no, there. There's a lot of bit of the business that we don't like to do, and that's perfectly okay and normal. But there is a percentage of it, a small piece where we're like, you know, if I could just do that. Like, for me, I used to think, man, if I could just get a job doing sales for my lighting company, if I only could do that, that would be awesome. I just go meet with people, get them excited about lighting, and then I don't have to do anything. And even now, I kind of daydream of that. Like, man, there's some cool business owners around the U.S. i would just go do sales for them. Like, that would be awesome. Right? But if you don't build your business to a point where you only get to work on the things that you want to, then you're doing all the things that you have to. So it's important to learn to delegate. And this will allow you to be able to focus on what you want to do inside your business.

Small business owners need to delegate tasks so they can grow, right

a couple more takeaways that I got out of this training with, Tommy. Tommy came and did this training for us today. honestly, I have a ton of notes and I'm going to probably like, consolidate my golden nuggets. but one thing I thought was interesting is he said everybody doesn't matter what level you're at, I don't care if you're doing $500,000 in revenue. Everybody needs an EA. An EA, meaning an executive assistant. And it could be a virtual executive assistant. we're going to be spending some time in the future talking about how to hire VAs and who to hire and everything else. But you can get these virtual assistants that are not that much money and an EA can help buy back your time. So you think about all the mundane tasks that you do that right now you're like, well, I couldn't delegate. I couldn't trust someone to do that. Well, that's part of, is letting go, really assigning all these responsibilities to someone else so that you can focus on the areas of your business that make the most amount of money, that give you the most amount of joy. Right? And in reality, momentum is not going to happen in your business until you scale. Like, you can't do everything. Like you can't answer the phone within two rings and deliver top notch customer service and follow up with people and meet them on time for their design appointment and do the installation and it just can't happen. Like, you're going to provide such a better white glove red carpet experience for someone when you actually have a team and you really start to experience momentum. When this happens. The year that I sold my business, which was 2019, we did $600,000 in repeat business alone. So that's $600,000 that people, they had already spent money with us. This was new money on like, oh, we did their front, front yard, you know, prior or we did now this is their second house, their third house, their lake house, right? So this was just gravy. This was just repeat business because we took care of that client. There's no way I could have done this if I would have stayed small. Like, it's just not possible because that's 600 grand. That's more than a lot of businesses are doing on an annual basis with all their sales. Right. advertising. So like your brand recognition and advertising, it works better the bigger you are. If you're a small company doing one or two jobs a week, then your sign and truck is only being seen one or two times a week. When you have a fleet of like two, three, four vehicles around town, imagine the momentum you get. And so that truck wrap, the yard, sign, the door hanger, everything gets more recognition, more trust, and you start to convert sales more easily. You start to get more leads, right? you start to get better prices when you buy product. You Know, maybe the manufacturers don't want me saying this, but listen, this is how it is. Like when you are saying, hey, I can take this large purchase and go over here, they understand that, they want to give you a better deal, right? So you're able to get better prices yourself. You're also able to charge higher prices, okay? Because you're the one that's seen in town, you're the local authority, you're the expert. everything becomes easier, it becomes easier to recruit because people are seeing you, they see that growth, they, they feel that momentum, right? And it's just, you know, again, my opinion at this, at this point, but I just feel like, you know, most of you small business owners are taking on too much risk and it's not fair. Like you didn't sign up for that level of risk. and you put a lot, you put a lot of it on yourself, right? But you do owe it to yourself. You owe it to your future self to grow to the point where your business doesn't need you. So literally identify a date. Three years, four years, five years from now, it's your dead by date and you're going to be gone from your business. And, you know, maybe you don't want to sell it. I'm not, I'm not saying you have to sell your business. but why not? You know, if you can get a good return on it, sell it and go do something else. If you're passionate about it, then stay in it. And then you get to be your lead designer. You know what I mean? but at least you're living, you're doing only the things in your business that you want to do and you're not having to put out all these fires and do everything else. So, it needs you, you need to be the leader, you need to be the visionary. but this is your opportunity to provide a better experience to your clients, a better experience to your team members. You know, think about, you're going to be able to answer the phone faster, your response time is going to improve, your installation quality, customer service, all this can improve because you're building a team. So, you know, I think the one thing that we all have in common is that we have a desire to provide an exceptional experience. That's why we, you know, if we're on the spectrum of lighting design, like we want to be really good at lighting design, or if we really want to become the expert installer, we want to do that, or sales or marketing or business, whatever it is, but I promise you, you'll do such a better job if you build your team. So want to just share that quickly with you. if you have feedback, you have comments, and you're here live, let us know in the comments, please. or shoot me a message. Supportion Lee coaching dot com. but I just hope I can encourage, someone to keep moving forward because there's times where it just seems like it's easier to just stop and go back to the good old days when it was just you and a helper. Right. and, there's a time and a season for that, for sure. But if you're really going to be an entrepreneur, you want it, you want to have that risk, it makes sense to get to that next level. and we talk about all those things, even just on this podcast, of the things that you can do that. So, that's it.

I think it's time to get to our guest. Andy Thomas welcomes the show

I think it's time to get to our guest. Let me find my, music. There it is. Welcome to the show. Andy Thomas. How are you, sir?

I am great. Good to be here. Good to be back.

Love it, love it, I love it. I just forgot, I need to check something real quick. I'm sorry. I guess since we're talking. You can hear me. Okay, I can hear you.

Yes.

That's kind of all that matters right now.

You teach landscape lighting and specifically business skills

All right, well, hey, yeah, welcome back to the show and, excited to have you on. We're, you know, talking before the show. I kind of want to, talk, you know, find out about some more details of businesses. And I think that's kind of what people want, is like, hey, what lights are you using? How you doing this and how you doing that? And, you know, you're someone I totally respect and look up to. And especially when it comes to, like, your product knowledge and just your experience in the industry, it's really hard to teach that. you know, we, I, I teach landscape lighting and specifically business skills. And sometimes it's pretty easy to be like, hey, here's the script. Just say this. troubleshooting is really hard to teach product, knowledge. You kind of have to experience, you know, experiment with some of this stuff.

Andy Thomas is a landscape lighting contractor based in Sacramento, California

But, maybe just, start by introducing yourself, who you are for those that don't know you and why the heck you're on the show and why. We're talking landscape lighting and who cares?

Yeah, my name is Andy Thomas. I am, landscape lighting contractor, designer, based, in Sacramento, California. It's Northern California. I've been in business for 19 years now. Started out working for Ewing on the distribution side, went to work for another distributor in San Francisco, then worked for FX as a sales rep for about a year and then, they fired me. So I started my own business and I've, been doing it ever since 2005. So that's, that's where I'm at. Nice.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I joined the AOP in 202008 or so, and then, and then went to my first conference in 2010 and that's when I really started taking things seriously and figured out how much I actually didn't know and wanted to start, you know, sparked the learning curve of, okay, now I need to get serious.

Yeah. So you were just, just, you were waiting to get fired so you could start your entrepreneur journey. And you love everything about being a business owner, right?

No, no, I love certain aspects of it. but I loathe, a lot of it. I. Mostly the business part of the business. I love lighting. I love design. I like working with, you know, guys. I don't even mind managing people. it's the, it's the day to day, you know, invoicing and marketing and all that stuff. That's, and the taxes and the, all the things that you need an executive assistant to help out.

When you came into Landscape Lighting Secrets, your response was unique

Well, yeah, you're definitely a filled guy. And when we talked, when you came into Landscape Lighting Secrets, I thought your response was kind of unique. I don't know if everyone else was lying and you were the only honest one, but it was very much like, I don't want to be here. And I was like, wait, what? you're literally doing stuff now that you don't want to do because you have faith that what you need to do.

Yeah, I mean it's, I've been, you know, like, like a lot of guys, I've been, you know, fake it till you make it. Well, I've been faking it for, you know, 18 plus years. I've gotten better at it and then, you know, I don't have to fake all of it. but a lot of it I'm still trying to figure out, okay, what is the best process, what's the best software, what's the, you know, constantly trying to figure that out. And that's one of the things I learned early on is man, if you try to do all that on your own, you can get there, it's just going to take decades. Or you can, you know, get the cheat codes and join in, with an organization, join in with you know, different groups get a coach, you know, do start doing some of that stuff where, where you can just sign up and then people start handing you stuff, handing, you information instead of you having to dig through and sort through and learn the hard way. You know, what products work, you know, which ones don't, you know, how did you get burned? How did this, you know, client screw you over? You know, there's a lot of that stuff that we can pick up just by sitting in a room with other people doing what we do. So if you're in a vacuum and trying to learn it on your own, yes, you can get there. But it's going to be long, it's going to be painful, and it's going to be expensive.

Yeah. You know, I feel like the more I learn about myself, I have like, these two personalities. This very much lone wolf. I think it's the egotistical side of me. you know, I never joined aolp. Like, I had heard about it. I didn't know enough to really make a decision, but. But I was just like, wait, what? Why would I do that? Like, I'm doing this, like, and I, and I really do think it's that ego side of, like, you know what? I'll just figure this out on my own. And it really wasn't until I launched what I'm doing now, Landscape lighting Secrets, because I, that was when I hired my first coach. That was when I started joining communities, and I was like, oh, my gosh, like, I understood this concept of collapsing time. And it's like, well, yeah, okay, so if you just want your ego to be right, you know, it can take you 10 years. But if you're just okay with your ego being, like, pushed aside for a few minutes, you can get it done in one year. Or, you know, just as an example. So you're totally right. And I have a lot of sympathy, or I guess compassion for people who don't want to join organizations. Because, like, I feel you, you know, I'm like, I totally get that. Like, I, my, my natural man in me also does not want to do that.

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of one of the things that we learn, you know, is. Yeah, yes. There's no such thing as a dumb question, just dumb people. We don't want to be the dumb one in the classroom, you know, saying, hey, how do you do this? No, it's, it's the more masculine way to go figure out, do it on your own. Figure out on your own. And Then, yes, you feel a better sense of accomplishment. But, yeah, but if it costs you a bunch of time and money to figure out the hard way, you're not helping anybody. So, you know, swallowing your pride, admitting that you don't know everything and then joining a bunch of groups, Join all the groups and then get all of the information and compile it all and, you know, you can learn landscape lighting in a year, if you have all the right coaches and all the right people giving you information. or it can take, you know, 15 years. Like it took me to get to the point where I felt confident in it and, you know, burnt up. Enough problems, you know, fixtures gone bad and, you know, product lines that didn't work out and, you know, learning all those lessons, you know, finding out from other people that, here, hey, stay away from this thing, or don't put this light in this position, otherwise you're gonna have problems. Well, that's, that's where you save money. That's where you get the cheat codes.

Nice.

What's your favorite part of the lighting industry?

what, what's been your favorite part of the lighting industry?

there's a lot of different things that I enjoy about it. The, you know, the industry. I think one of the big things, you know, as far as industry wise, it's the people. It's the people in the industry, it's the other lighting designers, it's all the people that, you know, fell in love doing the same thing that I love doing. finding that community of people that, that understand the art and the passion and the love for doing, you know, creating what we can create. we can all feed off of each other, and hear that feedback from each other, and a lot of it streams back to the feedback that we get from our clients and we can all sort of relate on that level of, you know, how many jobs out there where you get to actually hand somebody an invoice for $50,000, they hand you a check and then hug you. You know, that's, that's pretty awesome feeling, you know, getting there. So it's, it's that, it's that feedback from the clients. It's the community, that I'm, that I've joined. and then, and then it's just the actual work itself of creating something, making something out of nothing. I mean, I'm, I tell people if I'm not building or breaking something, I'm going to go insane. So I have to constantly be creating something or just destroying something, because that's cathartic too. Just go out and smash something.

you know, you can.

Exactly, exactly. I don't have to pay for it. I got enough junk around here I can smash. I got, I got a big yard and a lot of things to break, so I can go break some wood.

And you know, smash business in general feels like that. It's like we love building, so we're like, cool, I'm gonna do this, hire these people. And then we're like, oh man, these guys are pissing me off. So then you fire everyone, you break it, then you build it again. And it's just like this repetitious, you know, thing that you're doing.

Yeah. So it's, you know, it's, it's that process that's, that's what I love about my job. It's, it's those, those pretty much those three things is the creating the people industry and then the people I'm selling to.

Yeah, I love it. I think I relate to all those. it's so awesome. Like the lighting is so powerful. I freaking love it. I'm always like, I've been, there's been times in my life where I'm like, wait, if I was just want to be efficient with my time and maximize my dollars, I think I'd be in like roofing or H vac. But I'm like, I don't know, I just really passionate about it.

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of different trades where you build stuff but not, I mean, not a ton where you actually get to design and build. I mean there's home, construction. There's a creative side of that, but, something that one man can manage. you can be a one guy shop and run it out of your garage and get all that creative juices going and then go out and build it and then get a check. yeah, that's the, that's the great thing about the lighting industry specifically is you can start with, you know, a Honda Civic and a screwdriver and you've got all the tools you need to get started. I mean, that's actually, it's.

You could just start with a screwdriver because if you just go and like.

Yeah. Start knocking on your neighbor's doors and then widen your circle.

Oh, I thought you were going to steal the Honda Civic with a screwdriver. Jam it in there, start it.

That's how you get the Civic. You can't afford the Civic to start with.

Well, you say, oh, you know, you fake it till you make it. And it took you a long Time. But, you know, you got to give yourself some credit because you've done a lot of things right. I'm sure you screwed up, you know, a lot, like all of us, but you've done a lot of things right.

Scott says one of the biggest changes in his business has been Covid

you know, I know a lot about a lot of different companies. Just from a revenue standpoint, like, I feel like you've done a freaking awesome job, you know? what. What have some of been some of the needle movers for you? Was it advice? Was it certain, actions you took, people you hired? Like, if you were to kind of give. Bottle up a little bit of that success, a handful of ingredients?

Yeah. I mean, I looked at. I looked at my sales numbers. I went all the way back to the beginning and kind of looked at where my sales numbers were, and everything was just pretty much, you know, gentle slope up until Covid. I mean, so if I were to say one thing that's changed, everything is Covid. because cheers to Covid. I mean, it doesn't matter what trade you're in. If you were in the building trades, chances are Covid was a, boom for your industry and, your business. so. But if I had, you know, if Covid had hit and I'd only been five years into business, I would not have been able to capitalize on the wave, that came through. So having. Having the systems. Some. Some systems in place, I, had to learn some of them really quick, because I didn't have a CRM at the beginning of COVID I didn't have, a lot of that stuff in place. I had one guy helping me out, you know, part time. you know, other than when we did Christmas lights, I'd have to staff up for that. but I got out of that racket. thank God.

But, I think I call.

It a necessary evil. But, yeah, well, once.

Once it's no longer necessary, then you can just cut that evil out of your life. That's. That's where I got to the point I started doing holiday lighting, you know, when business dried up during the winter, so I needed something to get me through. Well, once I got, you know, once I've been around long enough and we had enough recurring, you know, client income stuff that would keep us going through the winter. Then I'm like, well, we don't need to do Christmas lights anymore. Let's stop. Let's stop the whole holiday lighting thing. And we had event lighting and so on, other little things. But, yeah, landscape lighting was the main, but yeah, I think the biggest thing was just learning. It's like everything, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And once you find out that there's other stuff out there, like, you know, CRM software, bookkeeping software, that was kind of the biggest thing is when we signed up for Jobber, and there's a bunch of other ones out there. But Jabber was the one that struck a chord with me. It was easy to get started. And then that's really what allowed me to capitalize on all the phone calls that were coming in and convert some of those into sales. I'm not going to say we did a perfect job because I've got designs that I did never actually presented to people because we were just so busy that I never went back and presented the final design. So I know I've left a ton of money on the table. but, you know, that was, that was a hard lesson to learn is how do you get going, you know, from a slow jog to a, to a pretty healthy sprint in a matter of what, nine months? it was, it was a crash. So, you know, learned the hard way. A few, a few ways there. But, but that was probably one of the bigger ones. Another big, you know, hallmark, you know, big hurdle to jump was getting, getting my first employee. You, know, I'd had family members help me out here and there, but, you know, hiring the first person and getting them into a vehicle so that they could, you know, he had a truck of his own. Get him out on the road and, and then getting him to a point where I could turn over, you know, some of the install stuff and maintenance stuff. and then, you know, comfortable with him being out doing his own thing. so Scott's been with me for, you know, 10 plus years now. I got him certified as a low voltage lighting technician. And I'm like, all right, cool. You know how to do it now go do it. Make me money. Let's, you know, let's have some fun with this.

Heck yeah. That's awesome. So, I guess to piggyback on that, what, what got you the courage to get that first, that, that first team member? Because that's hard. You know, like, you're doing everything. Yeah. You're like, I don't even know if I know how to train them. Can they do this? What happens when I leave? You know, all those things. Yeah, a lot of people back.

Yeah, like most things, it's, it's really freaky until you do it. And then once you've done it, you're like, God dang it, why didn't I do this? Long time ago. You know, it's not that hard because you're hiring people. You're not hiring aliens. You know, they all speak your language, if they speak English. And, yeah, usually, I'm hiring people that speak English because I don't speak any other languages. So how do you know? How do you do any of that stuff? You just go do it, and once you do it, you figure out how to make it work.

I had too much work coming in for me to handle on my own

so I had to hire a guy because I was getting to the point where I was, too. I had too much work coming in for me to handle on my own. because I was. You know, I had three young kids, I was working part time, so I only had basically Tuesdays and Thursdays and weekends to work on stuff. And, you know, if. If I needed to take a week off to go to Tahoe with the family, business stopped, you know, ground to a halt. you know, I could still answer the phone, but I'm not getting any Uber work in the field done. So making that leap from one guy shop to having an employee that could keep work going, if I needed to go on vacation or went to a lighting conference or whatever, I could just see, like, here's all the stuff that needs to get done, I'll see in a week and come back and it's done. And the client loves them and, you know, and everything's happy. That's, you know, it's just jumping in and figuring it out, like. Like most things.

Okay, cool. I just realized that I forgot to, thank Emory Allen. You know, Emory Allen's been a big supporter of our show. So, if you guys want to get some bulbs and lamps and stuff like that, just email Tom Gary Allen dot com. You've probably heard me say that before, but honestly, don't go to their website guys, unless you like paying more, which some people do. those are the premium buyers. Then you go to their website. But if you want the best deal, email tom Gary Allen. com mention that you heard about him here on Lighting for Profits, and he'll hook you up. yeah, that's all. So, I, made that mistake.

I bought bulbs off, you know, I bought out lamps off the website, and I paid too much. The man. So you email Tom, and then he'll hook you up with the, you know, contractor pricing.

Why nobody listen?

It was before, you know, it was a while ago. But, stop Googling man, these lamps are pretty expensive. And then I got the real price. They're not that expensive and they're really good.

So I've had people text me, you know, they'll message me and like, so how good are these Emery Allens? Because they're pretty expensive. I'm like, how much is expensive? Because, you know, everyone's got a different version and they say. I'm like, well, no, that's not their real price. That's just like their website price. But also, full disclosure, I've only used them at my house. I didn't even know who Emory Allen was when I had a business. So just try them yourself.

Yeah, we've used a few and I've gotten a lot of good feedback from other, contractors from around the country that it's, it's good stuff.

So I want to get into, uh, maybe a little bit how you run your business

So I want to get into, maybe a little bit how you run your business. So, are you a drop in guy? Integrated you into the smart systems? Like, if you had to choose one system your go to, what would it be?

Yeah, so I'm mostly a socketed LED fixture guy.

Okay. Did I not say drop in? I think James, I saw James earlier. He's probably.

No, I, I like socketed fixtures. just because it was an easy transition from, you know, I, when I started, I was, you know, in the halogen days. So everything had sockets. There was no integrated. Yeah. So that made it easier for me to go back and retrofit existing systems. And then it was an easy sell for me. I mean, it's like anything else. You can sell whatever you want. You just have to know why you're selling it and know why it's better than somebody else's. Whether it is or not. You just have to have a good story. So, I know the pros and cons of both socket fixtures and integrated and modular. I use all of them. but primarily, 90% of the stuff that we're doing is, is, is a socket, you know, drop in LED that we can swap out to upgrade, you know, beam spreads or intensities. It's a lot easier to service them because you could just open up the top, pop a new LED in there and close it up and be on your way. so that's, you know, that's, that's my take on it. That's why I sell what I do. I also am familiar, you know, roughly with what other people in my market are using. And that's one of the things that determines what we use is because I Don't want to use the same thing my competitors are selling. So that's, you know, one way that we differentiate ourselves. you know, Brass figure. I use Clairlux, fixtures with brilliance LEDs for, for the most part. that's just kind of what been my go to for a long time. So I'm sticking with it until it, you know, until it doesn't serve me anymore. But, but I know why I use it and I know why other people sell something else. And if people want integrated, Kichler fixture, then, you know, hire the other guy. if you want an FX system, you know, Luxor system, you know, we do that. But that's what somebody else is selling. You know, there's knowing what your competition is selling allows you to differentiate. You know, give people. This is, you know, it's capitalism. People want choices. If everybody's giving them the same product line, it's like, well, that's not a different choice. Let's you know what you're selling and know why. So that's, that's what I do.

That's great advice. I mean, like, you know, when I was, when I was selling a socketed fixture, I would, There was. Here's all the reasons why they should invest in me using the socketed fixture, right? And then when I'm using integrated, here's all the reasons. So like you said, like, you have to have a story, you have to have a reason. for me, when I was big on integrated, it was because, like, no one else in my market was willing to do that. I mean, the cost is higher and they weren't willing to. So obviously I'm presenting a higher price. But now I was in this, you know, blue ocean instead of a red ocean, everyone fighting. So I think that's important. I think everyone needs to understand their story, their differentiator, and then lean hard into that and it doesn't truly matter. Like, you hear a lot like, we don't sell fixtures. And that's true. You know, we are designers and stuff, but at the end of the day, like, people are going to want to see what's getting installed in their place. And it can be a huge differentiator for sure.

Well, yeah, you have to have your value proposition of why you're doing it. And no, we're not fixture salesmen, but we do have to service fixtures. We're not servicing a design, we're servicing the fixtures. When something stops working, we have to go back and work on the fixtures, not necessarily the design. So those fixtures have to be good quality. I don't bring up fixture specs and show people catalogs and fancy pictures. And other than path lights, you know, something that has some style. But I, you know, I sell the design and I say, here's. You know, here's the line that I use. Here's why I use it. but in, you know, in a perfect world, you won't be able to see any of those fixtures. You won't be able to tell that, you know where the light's coming from. So if I do my job, you won't care what the fixtures are, because you're not going to see them. All you're going to see is a yard that's beautifully illuminated. Now you can extend your, you know, life into the backyard, into the night, you know, all night if you want, grab a glass of wine, live it up.

Yeah, you know, it does remind me there was jobs I would sell, and they didn't. They didn't see anything. They didn't even choose path lights. And really, for the most part, it was fine. You know, we said, hey, we're gonna hit this area with. We're gonna splash it with some path lights to give you this, you know, area. We'll light these steps. And, you know, all that. And that was good enough. You know, that was like, selling the design. But, for the most part, it was fine. Like, oh, it's beautiful. But there was a couple times where they're like, oh, we don't like these. And it's like, ooh. So how often are you that color? Yeah, I know. Now it's already changed. It looks like a leopard. It's only been two days. It's like, oh, okay, now we got to talk about patina.

How proactive are you on selecting, let's say, path lights

And so, like, how. How proactive are you on selecting, let's say, path lights? Because that's probably the most. The most visual fixture that you're going to see.

Yeah, I mean, that's one where I'll actually put that in my concept design, where I'm showing them the pictures of how I'm going to light the space. I'll give them, you know, here's my go to past light this style or this bollard or whatever. Here's what I would like to use. And then if they balk at that and say, oh, I don't really like that, then I'll say, okay, well, that's fine. Let me put together, you know, or show. Show me something that you do like, and I'll find a fixture that I know will work. That matches that style, or I'll just say, okay, well, that's fine. I'll go back, I'll give me an idea what you're looking for, and I'll give you three choices. Pick one of those three, and we'll make it work. But it's going to be something that I already know is going to do the things that I need it to do. Because we're lighting designers, we need the light to actually do the functional lighting part. So I'm going to give them options that I know that it's going to light up what I need it to light up. So, you know, I'm not going to throw in a, you know, a bollard when it needs a little tiny, petite path light kind of thing or vice versa. So, you know. Yeah, I narrow their choices.

Well, it's a great, great point, because the last thing you do, you know, you don't want someone open up a catalog. They could take months, literally months to make a decision on something that's so simple. So.

Right. And then they'll end up picking the worst fixture that doesn't do what you need to do. And then you, you know, or then you need twice as many because the, you know, photometrics on it are terrible. So now we got to put, you know, I don't want to. Any path, you know, a perfect design for me has zero path lights in it. I don't want to see any fixtures. Past lights are always, almost always visible. So let's eliminate them as much as possible. but, yeah, if we have to pick something, let's pick something that's going to work and then let's, you know, make it pretty if we have to or invisible if we can.

Nice.

Greg Emer: Start with a good screwdriver and a good multimeter

talk to me about any. Like, you're. You're kind of like a, tech guy. Like, you know, tools and all that stuff. Any must have tools that you think might be, like, people don't have that. They should. Or. I mean, some people don't have volt meters, so I don't like.

Yeah, let's start with that. All right, Start. Start with a good screwdriver. Yeah. And then work your way up to a good multimeter. You know, something with an amp clamp on it. Something that will give you different readings. You know, AC and dc, will actually read. Get a true RMS voice, you know, multimeter. Because RMS meaning root, mean square. It's better for measuring on LED systems. Yeah.

Why can you. Can you, say it in layman's terms? What is RMS and why does it matter?

No, I don't know what. What it means. I. I know. I know what RMS stands for root mean square. But it's just a way m. Of measuring the amps. Or. Yeah, the. You know, the amps. M On a system. I don't know why, what it's for, and what the difference is between the RMS system and an RMS meter. so that's one where I. I haven't been interested enough to look it up.

Okay. I hear it too. I don't know either. I just know.

Yeah, somebody told me the RMS is better, and I read into it and say RMS is better for, you know, LED systems. Okay, then I'll do that. Yeah, perfect. you know, beyond that. You know, beyond that, it's. It's. There's a lot of different tools out there that make your job easier, or make you more effective with your time. And the more effective with you. Your time you are, the more you can charge per hour. So, you know. Yes, if you have a cut wire and you have to dig up an entire system to find a little cut wire, you can only charge, you know, $20 an hour. Because you're doing $20 an hour, you know, labor. I can bring out my multimeter and my volt, you know, my wire tracer and my TDS, and I can find that in five minutes, fix it in another 10, be out of there in 15 minutes. Well, now I can charge them $150 an hour, you know, for that repair, because, you know, it took me no time to find it, but I have, you know, thousand dollars in tools to find it. So, you know, a good wire tracer is key. the best one you can afford. Mine actually just, you know, it was 15 years old, and it finally stopped. I have one in one, you know, each of my other vehicles, but the one I had in my truck finally died, so I gotta get a new one. get something that's gonna, you know, a good wire tracer. I. I like their armada stuff. it's. It's good. Good quality. seems to be a good, clean signal. When tracing wires. A, TDS is a good tool to have basically clips onto the wire, and I'll tell you how far. How long the wire is or how far it is between the end you clipped onto and where a short is or an open circuit. so that'll help narrow down where those are. a ground fault locator. so those are the main, you know, three main tools. The GFL which is a ground fault locator. That'll tell you if there's a nick in the wire, where it is along the wire run, where the electricity is bleeding into the ground. So that'll usually tell you where there's. Where there's a damaged wire. So between those three tools, I can troubleshoot and find most issues within 20 minutes.

Nice. Greg, you're late to the show. We've already discussed this. I don't know. I called him President Emeritus. you call him whatever you want. I think he's been called worse by clients.

I've been called worse by Greg. So.

Bob Dancy: The main factor is the scale of the project

Let'S talk about. Actually, I'm gonna ask you about the aolp, but it's not. Not part of my outline yet. So it's like one more question.

Yeah, yeah.

What's your sales, process like? is this. Do you go back and do Fancy Dancy? Are you, like, drawing something up while you're there? Like, what, you know, how are you selling?

Yes, all of the above. Depending on who the client is, where it is, how big the project is, is the main. The main factor is, you know, what's the scale of the project and, the scale of budget, you know, a lot of stuff. Nowadays I can do a conceptual design, write up an estimate and give them a quote in the first, you know, in the first visit. if it's, you know, less than, let's say, eight or $10,000, I could probably take a bunch of pictures, sketch it up, turn it into an estimate, go through that with the client while I'm there, and sell that job on the site. On the job.

okay, so, like, and I think. I don't know, I'm sure we're going to talk about bigger jobs, too. But if you just take the average landscape lighting job, I think it's somewhere between 5 and $10,000. So I'm not saying that's your average job, but just people who are listening might be like, okay, that's the average. There's obviously bigger jobs. But you're saying, yeah, you can go draw something up, give them the conceptual design. ask for a deposit first.

Yeah, because it's not going to take you that long. I mean, yes, if you're just starting out and you don't know what to do and you want to research the stuff and you want to make sure you're using the right product and blah, blah, blah, you can take that back to your shop and digest it for a little bit and then regurgitate it back to the client in a proper sales proposal. I've done it long enough now that I can say, okay, you're just gonna need X number of up lights and X number of well lights. And then here's a transformer, blah, blah, add it all up. You know, Bob's your uncle. It's going, it's gonna go like this. You're gonna love it. If we need to scale it up or scale it back, change the fixture spec to, to meet a price budget, we can work all that out on site. anything over that sort of, you know, eight or eight or ten grand range. I'm usually going to do a master plan and master design it, and kind of give them all the bells and whistles. And that's, that's my sales approach on, on most projects. You know, my, I think my average project now is, is getting close to $20,000. So, those tend to be a little bit more complicated. you know, of course, $20,000 project now is not what it was, you know, eight years ago.

with inflation, it's basically a $10,000 job.

Yeah, so. Yeah, exactly. So, so with, when I meet with a new client, I, you know, I'll always ask them what is their budget? Or you have any idea how much this is? You know, how much you're willing to spend or how much this should cost? And 95% of the time people don't know. And you know, they might have a budget and they might share it with you, but I don't really care. I'm just going to show them everything and see where it comes up. And chances are, even if they give me a budget, I've got $8,000 budget. Okay, I'm going to give them probably a, twelve to sixteen thousand dollar proposal because lo and behold, hey, I found an extra four grand, in my budget to do what you wanted because they liked what I, you know, liked what they saw. So I'm gonna master plan the whole thing and show them all the different possibilities. and then, and then that's gonna be a ridiculous number. You know, let's say it's $75,000 and they've got a, you know, $10,000 budget. Well, that $75,000 design has all the pieces of the puzzle. And maybe they can only bite off phase one, which is that first 10 or $12,000. But at least we have the whole plan done. So when they're ready to do the next phase, we know what the pieces are. We just have to Add them to the puzzle. So that's. That's our kind of. My sales pitch is I want to design the whole thing. I want to show you everything that's possible, and then from that, you can cherry pick the things that are most important to you or the ideas you like the best. And then I'll try to implement them into phase one, and then we'll figure out the rest later. and then, like, you know, to your point where you've got, you know, $600,000 worth of repeat business from existing client base, like, that's where you get that from, is leaving those empty phases unfinished. Well, they've already been sold on it. They just can't afford it yet. So all you're doing is waiting for them to find the money, and then they want to, you know, they want to do it. You gave them a piece of, you know, a taste of the crack, now they want the rest of the deal. They want to start buying from you. So, you know, we want to turn them into lighting junkies. We give them that taste, and then they keep coming back for more.

I love it. I mean, I say this a lot, like, everybody, like, everybody needs landscape lighting from you today. And some people, like, they don't need it. It's, you know, no, everybody needs it. Not everyone can afford it. Like, maybe they can afford 75,000. Maybe they live in a trailer park, but they still need landscape lighting. Like, they still need it for safety, security, mental health. Like, all these things. Everyone needs it. It's just not everyone can afford it. So I like that it gives them a nice decoy, too, to be like, wow, we're not crazy, Andy. We're not going to do 75 grand, but let's just do 10. Let's just do 20. Yeah.

And it's. It's kind of funny to me how many people will, you know, and it's. It's a sales tactic. I mean, it's the price soak kind of thing. but it's show, throw that number out there. It's like, here's what it could be. Here's all, you know, here's the beautiful photos of my other projects of, you know, where these people did give me the $75,000. Look what we did for them. Now you need to go back and, you know, now at least you know what size piggy bank you need to fill up before you can smash it and spend it all on lighting.

Andy says part of his sales pitch is educating potential clients on lighting options

So, you know, and that's. That's part of my sales pitch is I say I'm going to design it as if you just won the lottery and want to spend it all on lighting. So let's approach it that way and then we'll figure out the money part later. You know, there's ways we can get the budget down. There's things that we can do to break it up into bite sized pieces and we'll make it work or, you know, or it won't. But I'm also charging for my design time on those projects. So I'm not losing anything. I'm still getting paid, you know, whether they hire me to do the install or not, I'm still getting money for the design. So that's, that's a big part of it, you know, it's making sure you're compensated for your time well.

And I think, you know, you forget that, like, especially once you've been doing it a while, you forget that your client doesn't have the same knowledge and experience as you. And you think it's just normal that like that tree needs four lights on it. And they're like, no, let's just do one. Well, you have to push back on that. Like, you have to. Because they don't know. Like they legitimately think it's going to look the same as with 1 versus 4. And you have to be able to explain that to them and say, listen, listen, I'm not. If you don't, if you don't lead with that, you're like, okay, so what do you want? You tell me what you want. And there's like one light on that tree, one over here. And you just do what they want. We know they're not going to be impressed with the result. And then who takes the fall? It's the designer. It's like, well, then you should have told me it was going to look terrible, Andy. So I like that. Like, hey, let's design on possibilities. And then if, if they decide it's their decision and they're like, you were right, Andy, that tree looks like shit. We need three more lights, you know?

Yeah, well, that's your number one job as a salesperson, is as an educator. Once you've educated the client on what's out there and what the possibilities are, you don't have to sell anything. Then they'll just ask you for it. So that's what I do, is I try to teach them as much as I can. I show them all the different possibilities. I show them what we've done in the past. I tell them why we use the fixtures, we use and the process that we do and why it costs so much because we take more time to do it the right way. And here's the warranty. And all. All the stuff that goes into that sales pitch is all just education. And then by the time you're done with it, they can't wait to give you money. And that's, you know, ideally, that's the process is you. You get them to. To know what it is that, you know, and once they know that, that that's a possibility, then they're just like, all right, well, now when can you start? Like, let's get. Let it. Let's get it going.

Yeah, I love it. I've seen your vision.

Now I want to. I want it in my yard. Yeah.

It's such a love when you get to that point and they're just like, all right, how do we get started? You're like, cha Ching.

Yeah.

What you said is they just need education. What kind of dollar signs can you put on that

I mean, we had a big project with that. you know, I got through my whole sales pitch, and it was, you know, I think it was a hundred. And, you know, it was right around $100,000, $104,000. And by the time I got to the end, she's like, well, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't start on it. I don't either. Usually it's because you can afford it, but you can afford it, so let's. Yeah, let's go for it. I mean, why not? Because now you know what's possible. Let's. Let's make it happen. Yeah.

Yeah. These. These. These clients of ours, they just need. What you said is they just need education. They all have money. Like, they. They can all afford it. I've seen where they vacation. I know how much they spend on cars. Like, they're fine even in the down economy. Trust me, they're fine. So.

And you know. And you know, what you're selling is not. I mean, you're not selling snake oil oil. You're selling an improvement to their life. And for that, like, how much. What kind of dollar signs can you put on that? Well, if you're making somebody's life better, well, that's priceless. So, yeah, charge the nose for it.

Yeah. they're. They work so hard, too. It's not like they're just home laying out by the pool, enjoying their. Their creations during the day. They're literally working all day, so they get home at night. They don't even get to enjoy their 500, 000 backyard. So we truly are the icing on the cake. We literally like, that's why they're like you said, here's the hundred thousand dollar check and they're hugging you and crying you. Thank you at the same time. They're always easier to please.

You've served on boards and presidency in the AOP since 2010

Let's talk about the crazy letters behind your name.

Ah.

so, yeah, yeah, you said earlier because you know, you want, you, you're in landscape lighting secrets for the same thing. You want to be in community and collapse time and stuff like that. what's been your journey since 2010 been like in the AOP. You've served on boards and presidency.

Yeah. So went to my first conference in 2010, you know, took the CLVLT that's certified levels Lighting Technician exam and passed it on my second try and, and started in the certified Outdoor Lighting Design program, which at that point was four years. So I got my clvlt, eventually after four years, got my COR COLD certification. And so that's what the, the letters after my name are. CLVLT for Technician, Cold for Design. I put that on all my marketing stuff because it's, you know, it's a differentiator. you know, a lot of the people out there don't have certifications or don't have all the certifications. Or in my case, I can say I gave them the certifications because once I took the I took the certification, then I got onto the CLVLT committee and worked on that and proctored the tests and then I got onto the cold committee. And you got involved with that. Chaired both of those committees. kind of worked my way up and through the politics and the, you know, the drudgery of working on volunteer positions like that of you know, it's a labor of love. It was a passion project to try to improve things that I saw could, could be improved in those programs. So that's why I got involved. Instead of just complaining that sucks and you know, taking my ball and going home, I said, well, this process sucked. I think I have an idea how to make it better. So I'm going to join the committee and try to implement my ideas. And so that's exactly what I did. Same thing with the AWLP board. once I felt like there was something that I can contribute, then I volunteered to, you know, get on the AOP board and got elected and made a lot of the changes that I wanted to make. Part of that was, you know, the culture of the AOLP and changing the perception that it was a, you know, old, grumpy, old Men, you know, lighting group that didn't like any new ideas and didn't like any new members. And yeah, if you weren't doing it their way, you need to, you know, you might as well just quit and, you know, go curl up in a corner. That's not. I knew from my experience and being in the organization that that's not how it was. So I. It was tough having that perception out there and knowing that the group of people that I met are, you know, some of the most passionate, talented people that I've ever met. and being able to call them all friends now. most of them friends, some still jerks, but they're everywhere. but yeah, knowing, you know, meeting my competition, meeting, you know, the groups, different, different, groups of people and finding your clique, then that's really what got me, you know, into it and committed so much of my time to it because of the passion that I got from the people involved. And, you know, now I have a network of lightning designers all over the country that I can call on or they call me. And I love it, you know, being. Being that resource for people, you know, people starting out, or people that have been out there and just haven't tried what I tried and they knew that I was working with some fixture and. Hey, I saw you posted a picture of that. What's your experience? How did. How did that work out for you? You know, that kind of interaction keeps me involved and keeps me passionate about what I'm doing.

Okay, cool. Yeah. And you've got both. I know. I don't remember exactly what number I was. I think I was. It was a few years ago now. I did the clvlt and I have not done the cold yet. but I was like number 74 or something. So there's not many in the US or the world that have done both, right?

Not a whole lot, no. there's the. I can't remember exactly on CLVLT, but it's over 100, you know, probably 150 that have done CLVLT now. I was 10. Number 10, 58. so 10 being the year I got it, number 58 being the 58th guy that passed the test. so, you know, you weren't that far behind me number wise.

But, but also to have the cold, I think. Because cold.

Yeah, because cold. Because there's. Well, I mean, it's. It was good. It made sense for me because I am the technician, I do the install, and I was doing design, to have both Now, I don't use the technician part because I have guys on my crew that are technicians and installers. And I have had, four of the five guys that. Well, right now I've got three guys working full time. All three of them are certified. And then I've got a couple, you know, one high school kid that works, ah, for me during the summers, and he came out and got certified. He's the youngest. Youngest person to get certified, pass the test.

See, I think that's cool. I think it's, This is part of that, like, you know, lone wolf strategy that I used to do versus, like, being part of a community. So, like, if you think about it, that when you're trying to build culture and keep people around and stuff like that, if you bring them to an event, you invest in them and invest in that training and certification. I mean, that. That says a lot about how you feel about them, right? And, yeah, the lone wolf's not going to have that. You know, like. Like, what did you invest into? Me? I don't know. Even if you just went as a business owner to some conference, that's good. But what's better is if you bring them, you know, and you make.

I would go to events and come back with the, you know, the free T shirt and the hat and the, you know, coffee mug, and I'd hand those out to the guys and like, oh, cool, you know, swag. But when I started taking my guys to the conference, then they start to get a sense of the community that I belong to, and then they get vested. It helps that they're certified and they need their CEUs to maintain their certification, so they have to proctor the test and do the things to check the boxes to keep that current. So I said, that's on you. so like, this year, last year I paid for them to come out, paid for the hotel, paid for everything. this year I said, if you want to come out, you're paying your own way. I'll pay you for your time at conference, but I'm not paying for your transportation, not paying for your hotel. And I think all my guys, same three guys that came out last year, are going to come out again this year. So that's, you know, that's what I want to do, is get them involved, get them involved with the community and make some of their own friends there so that they can see and, you know, get a sense of the passion and get, you know, get more involved themselves. That makes me handing the ball to them a little easier. To make that transition nice.

What advice would you give to those looking to get more value out of AOLP

And then, what other advice would you give to someone who's either, you know, there's people that don't know about AOLP or there's people that complain about it. You know, whatever. What advice would you give to those looking to get more value out of it?

I mean, the biggest value is going to the conference still. I mean there's, there is more, more stuff out there. But, but going to conference and spending the time with the people. We'll be in Clearwater, Florida in February this year. it's a great location and you know, it's Florida in February. I mean, come on, come on out. I mean I'm in California, but it's still better than here. so yeah, I mean, coming to the conference is the big thing because that's where you're going to get, jump started into it. That's where you're actually going to make friends and find your community with the, with the organization. Now we have webinars, we have, you know, training stuff that happens throughout the year. so there is still value if you don't come to conference. But it's really, the conference is where you're going to make those personal connections. and you'll get just dragged into conversations whether you want to or not. And you'll learn something whether you know, whether you're trying to or not. And somebody's going to teach you something. So, you know, that's, that's, that's my sales pitch for it is just come. You know, if you're gonna poo poo it, come to conference and then poo poo it. But if you've been to conference, chances are you're not gonna, you're not going to look down on it anymore.

That's so true. I have a lot of people that poo poo on me and I haven't done anything of my programs. I'm like, okay.

But yeah, I mean that's that and that's like I said, you know, joining the, If I had a problem with the program, I'd join the program and then change it. Don't just, you know, dump all over it and say this guy's a hack or this group doesn't know what they're doing or you know, posting stuff that he's, you know, he's the be all end all. Like, well, that's not what he said. Join the program. Find out what it's about. Then you can give a proper review. But it's, it's these People that snipe from the outskirts. That's not, not constructive.

Yeah, and I like what you said, too. Like, hey, join a committee. You know, be on the board. You know, it's not like, anyone can do this stuff. Like, it's a nonprofit. They need volunteers.

We need volunteers. Bodies just show up. You know, if you, if you help out, then great. If you just show up to, you know, to show up to do some of the lifting, that's fine. We just need people to get involved. And once you get involved, you get, you see how it's made. And then you'll complain less about what we're doing if you realize how hard we work to do what little we, can do.

Well, I had just bought my ticket, but I'm going to get a refund now because Greg is packing his Speedo right now.

Yeah, well, no. All right, everybody, cancel your plans.

It's over.

Andy Bueller just launched Lighting Academy to help budding landscape lighting professionals

I gotta give one, last plug. we just launched Lighting Academy, and I'm so excited about this because, so many people are coming into the industry with no experience. They, they know how to do holiday lighting or they know how to do permanent lighting. And they're like, dude, how do I make this money year round? Well, the obvious answer is landscape lighting. And so they're joining Facebook groups, they're asking questions, they're hungry and they don't really know where to start. And I felt like this is something that's been needed for a long time. there's aolp, there's ili, these are great organizations. But, like, if you're, you know, if conferences in February and you want to get started in, in March, and you just learned about light, I mean, there's, there's timing issues and stuff like that. So we started Lighting Academy, which is the, you know, teaching the basics of design and installation, for, to, for people to get started. You know, it's like, hey, well, what lights do I use and where do I put them and how do I get under here and how many would I use and what, what brightness? All this stuff? So I'm excited about that for several reasons, but one of the things that people get is access to these support calls that are happening multiple times a month from a. Ah, you know, we have design calls and install calls, and Andy, you are leading up our installation calls. So, talk about that. I know we just launched it and so we were talking before the show is like, how's it going? You know, and stuff. tell me, tell me your thoughts, like, how Are things going so far?

So far it's been really good. you know, it. The first one or two, I was kind of talking to an empty room because, you know, it's just getting kicked off. But they've been recorded so you can go back and watch them and join the room after the fact. But now, as we get more people involved and onto the calls, I think, I hope, I'm hoping it'll be a lot more interactive. The last one was a lot more interactive because we actually had some people on there that had some questions and we're throwing it out and actually had answers for them, which is nice. if I don't have the answer either, I'll tell you, I don't have the answer and I'll look it up and get back to you on it. Or sometimes I'll just make something up. That sounds good, but for the most part I either know the answer or I know the guy that does. So, so yeah, if I don't answer it on that call, you know, we'll figure it out eventually. but yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of fun. It's a sort of little, somewhat structured as far as there's a topic. but there's no reason why you can't just come on with your, you know, newbie questions. I'm not going to judge anybody, because chances are if you're coming at it, you're fresh and you're just trying something out and you have a bad idea. I've probably already tried it out. so I already know if it works or it doesn't. And I can, you know, teach you, how to avoid the same mistakes that I made, and hopefully save you some time and money and not making those mistakes yourself. But yeah, that's kind of the whole idea is great resource for people who are just getting started and don't know what to start with, where to start, what tools to get, how to do voltage drop calculations, how to install lights in the ground and in hardscape and in trees. We're going to go through all of that stuff and I love it. I love talking about it. I love sharing my experiences. You know, falling out of a tree drunk, doing a nighttime adjustments, you know, that kind of thing. Those are the fun stuff. Yeah, so we'll get into that.

What do Entertaining. It's educational and entertaining.

I hope it's at least a little bit entertaining just because, you know, nobody wants a dry presentation, you know. Bueller. Bueller, right.

You need real world experience to become a Lighting Technician

Well, I'm, I'm like so excited. I was trying to think about who, who would fill these roles and stuff like that. And I just feel like you're the perfect fit. And you know, this is, this is not a, like join Lighting Academy and get certified. I mean we have assessments so that you can help make sure your team, but it's really that, that ongoing training and support. So I remember having my business and I had no training. It was just like, if they ask good questions, they get good training. If they don't, they don't. And they never ask good questions. So wonder why these guys never learned anything. So it's, it's video training like classroom and hands on or in the field. But then also these, these calls are just invaluable. So people can use these as part of their training resources. They hire a new lighting designer or salesperson, they can show up under these calls, they hire a new technician, they can show up to these calls and get their questions answered. And then like you said, if they can't make that, that day or time, it's all recorded. And we have the summary of what was discussed in the call. So if you read the summary and you're like, I already know all that, then don't watch the call. But if it's like, oh, this is cool, it got super technical about voltage drop or connections or something like that and you want to do it, then watch the call. So, I'm just excited, man. It's it's really, really cool that we've, that we've got you in that role, really. just delivering two decades of experience to people honored to do it.

And you know, and you know, you know you're not going to get a certification at the end of it, but all the stuff that we're teaching is going to be backed up by the certified low voltage Lighting Technician manual. And a lot of the information that we're going over is, you know, is either going to be directly in that book or not conflict with it. Certainly. but you know, I'm not teaching to the book and I'm not using that as a framework, but I'm going to make sure that everything that we do teach is the, the proper way to do it and why, and what's, what can happen if you don't do it the right way. a lot of it comes down to liability and you know, starting fires and, you know, breaking things. Let's, let's not, let's not do any of that. But by the time you get through a lot of this stuff, you'll already have a lot of the information that's in that certification. And if you do want to get certified, you'll have a leg up on other people that, are starting from scratch or trying to figure it out on their own.

Absolutely. And it's, you know, it's, it is, it's the groundwork. Like, the CLVLT is no joke there. There's a huge study guy that you pretty much have to memorize. Like, there's no way this is going to replace that. Like, you're going to have to study well beyond that. And you need. The other thing I noticed about the CLVLT is you need real world experience. Like, you got to go out, you got to learn to troubleshoot some stuff that you're not going to learn in Lighting Academy. You're not going to learn in a study guide. You gotta go figure this stuff out. And, you need it all. You need that experience. So I'm excited, man. if you guys are interested in getting information, we're doing a dollar trial. It's not a free trial. You pay a buck right now for seven days. If you like it, then you stay in. It's 97 bucks a month. If you hate it, then you just cancel it and then you lost a dollar. So, that'll give you enough time to go check it out, watch some of these records, recordings and stuff like that, and then, check out the format. So, Andy, that was awesome, man. I appreciate you taking the, the time away from your business, away from your family to be here. thanks for, paving the way for everyone in the lighting community volunteering, to be with, on the boards of aolp, the committees, the presidente. You're, you're awesome, for doing all that stuff.

Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on today and glad I could share some of my knowledge and, and hope to do some more in the future.

Love it. All right, man. You have an awesome night. Okay.

You too. Thank you, sir.

All right, see everybody.