Lighting for Profits - Episode 204

From lighting up landscapes to lighting up life - William Coggins shares how discipline, design, and grit fueled his rise from NCAA wrestling champ to founder of a 7-figure outdoor lighting firm. Hear how this family-first entrepreneur blends artistry and ambition in business and beyond.

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Episode Transcript

Welcome to Lighting for Profits. All light, All light. Here is your host, Ryan Lee

Welcome to Lighting for Profits.

All light, all light, all light.

Powered by Emery Allen. Here is your host, Ryan Lee.

All right. All light, all light. Let's go, guys.

If you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, today's your day

Welcome, welcome, welcome to the number one landscape lighting show in Long Island, New York. That's right. man, it's a great show, guys. I freaking love the landscape lighting industry. I love business, I love profits. I like talking about changing the world. So we got an awesome show lined up. If you're looking to start or grow a, landscape lighting business, today's your day because we got Mr. Billy Coggins with Nightlight Landscape Lighting. And I'm telling you, I didn't realize it until I was just chatting with him before the show. it's been a while since he's been on the show, and I've, gotten to know Billy pretty well. We chat regularly, and, I'm like, dude, the last time you're on the show, like, we've got big news. Like, his business has, completely transformed, since he's been on the show. So I'm m excited to have him on. We're going to be talking all things business, marketing, sales, all the fun stuff that I like to talk about. So listen, if you're looking to level, up your game, this is the show for you. We're here to educate and motivate, to help you dominate. And, by the way, it's not too late. I'm going to be in Raleigh, North Carolina tomorrow night. So if you can make it, the thing starts tomorrow night. Thursday. Friday is the real deal. 17th and 18th. But, Jimmy Tompkins with Lights for Decorators puts on his annual conference. And you should be there because we're going to geek out on all things business, all things outdoor lighting. Whether it's landscape lighting, permanent lighting, or holiday lighting. I want to see you there. So if you need information, just shoot me a DM and we can get you the link and all the stuff. It's free. Jimmy does free events. He's basically putting me out of business. So I definitely, hope you'll be there. I've limited my schedule. I'm literally only going to, like, a couple things every year, and this is one of those. So that's how much I believe in it. I want to see you there. So again, guys, in just a few minutes, we got Billy Coggins, the founder of Nightlight Landscape Lighting. And, he is doing some big things, and I'm, excited to have him on.

The misogi is something you do to push yourself in a certain way

Before we have him on, Want to share Something with you. So I shared this, earlier in the year, maybe I've shared it a lot just because it is pretty exciting for me. this year, I challenged the lighting legends group, to do this thing called the Masogi. And the misogi is something I just saw online. I saw it on, like, Instagram or something like that. And I started looking into it. I'm like, hey, this is kind of cool. And basically, I don't even know if this is real. Like, I don't know if Japanese people do this or if an American said that Japanese people do this, but there's this misogy thing, and it's basically like you pick this badass thing that you want to do once a year and, something challenging, something you want to do that's going to push you, to grow in a certain way in your life, right? And, it could be, maybe you want to stop smoking, right? Maybe you want to start smoking. Maybe you want to pick up some bad habits. Well, for me, fitness has kind of been this thing that I've flirted with for the last couple of years, and I needed something to just push me over the edge because I don't want to go work out in a gym. I don't want to go do, I even know the names of this stuff. I don't want to go wrestle around with grown, sweaty men. Like, it's just not my thing, right? So, one of my friends challenged me, said, hey, why don't you come do these, Spartan races with us? And I had heard of a Spartan race, but, you know, I kind of looked into it and I decided, okay, my misogi for the year is I'm going to do the trifecta. Okay? And the trifecta is basically when you run a 5k, a 10k, and a 21k Spartan race, which comes with, like, obstacles and cool, like, manly stuff. when you do that in a calendar year, you earn the trifecta. And basically, again, the misogi should be something pretty challenging. Like, there's a. There's a pretty good chance, like a 50 chance or more that you're going to fail. And truly, I thought, you know, I could probably do a 5K. I think I can do the 10K, but. And being able to do the 21K, like, there's a really high chance, probably greater than 50, that I'm going to fail. So I signed up for all the races. I paid for it in advance. And, what's pretty cool is this weekend just A few days ago, I actually completed my Spartan trifecta. So give it up for me. Give it up for me. it was a really cool feeling, for, like, a few seconds because I was mostly in pain, and the metal really wasn't the reward. The real win was really who I became in the process. And this is just a short period of time. I mean, I started, like, running and training. I think it was in December. And, the reason I'm telling you this is because there's all these cool comparison and analogies. Listen, when you're training and running hundreds of miles, all I can think about is business. And I'm thinking of all these, you know, tools and stuff that I'm developing and stuff like that. So business is like this endurance sport. Like, most of us want quick wins. And I can appreciate that. I would love to be able to just, like, invest a thousand dollars and make 10,000. But in reality, that's not usually what happens. I want to hire someone and just have them be a natural leader. I want to hire them to be the sales designer or whatever. But, like, it doesn't always happen like that. And so whoever can stick around the longest in business is usually going to win. So why is it that some business owners seem to succeed effortlessly while others struggle to survive? And this is what I learned through this misogy, through this Spartan trifecta. So, in April, I completed my first one. It was a 10K in San Diego. Then, a few weeks ago in Montana, I did the 5K. And then again just this past weekend, I did the 21K. Now 21K, if you haven't, don't know what that means. That's a half marathon, 13 miles. they told me, and I didn't know this when I bought the ticket, that it was gonna be 3,000 vertical feet. Now 3,000ft's a freaking lot. And so I was, like, training. There's a mountain right by my house. I would, like, run up and down the mountain. And I thought I was gonna be good. Well, when you get to the race, I realized and. And I had my watch on. It was more than 3,000ft. And it wasn't a lot of running. It was like climbing up straight mountain. And people were like. Like, they trained for this. And I trained for it the wrong way. I ran instead of, like, you know, worked out with my legs. I don't like doing squats. I don't like doing that stuff. But I ended up running because I had some penalties of some obstacles. I couldn't do on Saturday, I ran 14 and a half miles. 4300 vertical feet, 4300ft up and down. it was crazy.

So I want to share a few things that I took away from Spartan Race

So I want to share a few things that I, that I took away that I, I really am going to apply to my business. And I hope you'll, apply it to yours as well. So number one is this, like, it. It's not about the destination. Like, when I completed the trifecta, I mean, it felt good for like 30 seconds. And then it's like, now what? I have a medal that no one cares about. Like, not even my kids. My kids are old enough now where they don't even care about this stuff. And so it's more about the person that I've become. The discipline, the identity shift, the person that you become along the way. And now I can run a few miles without really even thinking. It's pretty easy. I drink a ton more water than I used to. I'm definitely stronger than I used to be. and I must have ran hundreds of miles all to train for this 13 mile race. Right? And so you think about when I measure backwards and I go, wow, look who I used to be in terms of health and fitness and all this stuff. Like, I've grown so much in just this short period of time. Now if I measure forward, like the gap in the game, it's like, dang. Yeah, I got a long ways to go. I got like 62 out of 69 in the elite class, which I probably shouldn't be racing in the elite class anyway, but still, like, if I compare myself to where I want to be, like, I have a long way to go. But I look back, I'm like, holy freaking cow. Like, I can't believe I can do certain things that I couldn't do. Literally, Literally, like, weeks ago, months ago. So that's the first thing. Enjoy the journey, guys. Like, most of us are unsatisfied because we don't have a million dollar business yet or a $5 million business or a $10 million business. I'm telling you, you're gonna get there. And it's just, a check. It's like, cool, I did it. Like, enjoy the journey. Make sure that you're enjoying every single day that you're doing this for the right reasons. Number two, second thing I learned is really, like, someone else's race is not yours, okay? So stop comparing yourself to other people's race and their success. there was people, like, walking, hiking next to me, whatever, doing obstacles next to me. And you kind of hear them talking. They do dozens of Spartan races a year, so it's fair to say that they're probably in better shape than me. They're probably stronger than me. Like, they know what to expect. They've practiced the obstacles. Like they have better training. Like, they, they know this. So measuring up to them is a complete waste of time, and it's going to put you in a depressed state. You know, if you haven't read the book, Gap in the gain. Highly, highly recommend. And it's going to teach you to measure backwards. And pretty much all of us at any level in our life, we can measure backwards and see, wow, a year from now, like a year ago, like, we're doing pretty good. And if not, then that's, that's where, you know, you need to improve. Then, the third thing is, you know, you might think it looks easier for some people to run a business because it is. Because you know what? When I started the Spartan race, there was obstacles that I was like, holy cow. Like, this is freaking hard. Like, how are you supposed to do this? And I'd never done the obstacle, and so I. When I did it, I made it look extremely difficult or impossible. Like, I failed. Okay. Two obstacles come to mind. Number one, there's a spear throw. You're standing 25ft back. You throw a spear, you get one toss, and if you hit it, you move on. If not, you have to. Your penalty is 30 burpees. Now, again, if you're in not as good a shape like I am, 30 burpees, especially mid race, is going to take you a long time. It's not like you can just bust out 30 burpees in a couple of minutes. Okay, so literally one obstacle could take 10 seconds. How long does it take to throw the spear? It could take 10 seconds versus 10 plus minutes. Like, from a percentage standpoint, that's like a thousand times longer. Right? And so that's how business is. Sometimes you look at someone, you're like, man, like, they make it look so easy. It's because it is. Like, they prepared, they worked out, they got stronger, they practiced, they learned strategy, they learned technique, they learned how to do these things so they can step up to the platform, throw the spear, and they're done in 10 seconds while you're over here around, and it's taking you forever and you can't figure it out. Okay. Because it can be easy when you understand the fundamentals, when you do the things. Right. The second one was the rope climb. Like, I. I Literally youtubed how to climb a rope the night before my first race. And I was like, okay, he wraps his leg, does the thing, whatever. I don't know. We'll try that. Well, I couldn't do it. I mean, I started going up. I. I kind of knew it. But then I got scared. I'm like, well, what happens then? I get up there, and I can't get down, right? So, I. I did not complete the rope climb my first race. Now I put a rope in my shop, and I climb the thing, and it's easy. Like, it's. It literally takes, like, 30 seconds instead of, like, doing the penalty lap and now running extra mileage. And I'm telling you guys, this is how business is. Most people will not stay in the game long enough.

Business owners that make it look easy have an unfair advantage

They'll not practice it long enough. They'll try it one time. Like, oh, man, it's too hard. That's because you tried it one time. Like, you have to practice, you have to get stronger, you have to get better, and. And then all of a sudden, you have an unfair advantage. I'm telling you, these business owners that make it look easy, it is, because it is not everything, but certain things are easy for them. They truly do have an unfair advantage. And I'm not going to say I have an unfair advantage with the Spartan yet, because there's, again, I got a long ways to go, but certain obstacles, like, I fly through, and people are like, wow, how do you do that? And I'm like, well, watch YouTube videos. But truly, we can learn a lot from others, right? I. I sat there and I watched. I watched people do the obstacle. I'm like, okay, that's how you do it, right? And these guys fly through these things. and then the last thing is really, you know, like I said, the metal. The metal isn't the goal. I mean, I got these, like, metals that cost me, like, 150 bucks or whatever it is to do the raise. The metal's not the goal. The mastery is. And really, the only way to get there is through the mud, through the burpees, through the reps. Like, you got to put in the time. yes, there are cheat codes. Yes, there are fast passes. Okay? And that's why you join, communities, landscape plotting secrets. But doesn't matter what, like, as long as you're with a community and as long as you're learning from people that have already gone ahead of you, you're ridiculous to not take them up on that offer to help you.

Tom Gummery says define your trajectory for lighting projects

So all this to Say, I want you guys to define your trajectory. Like, where is it that you're going to. Okay, marry the process, divorce the results. And that just means, like, don't worry about your time. Like, I completed this last Spartan, guys. It took me over five hours. It was five hours, 12 minutes of constant energy. And honestly, my legs cramped up. I did a poor performance. I mentally was there. I was ready to go. I had endurance left, but my muscles cramped and I literally had to stop on the mountain for like, 20 minutes of time waiting for them to, like, uncramp so I can move. But doesn't matter. Like, marry the process, divorce the results. Yes, I'm upset. I wish I could have done a faster time. I thought I was going to do it in four hours. It took me an hour longer than I thought. But I'm telling you, I'm married to the process. Like, I'm taking a few days off, but I'm going to continue running, I'm going to continue lifting. I'm going to continue to get stronger. I've now basically, like, brought in this new discipline into my life, and it's addicting. Like, it feels really, really good. So, once you define your trajectory, where you're going, why you want it, then you can reverse engineer it. how are you going to get there? Who's. Who do you need on your team to help you get there? And then after that, it just honestly becomes this, this game of disciplined action. Once you have. Once you have the pieces in place, you know where you're going. It might take you longer, it might take you five hours. And when you want it to be four hours, it might take you five years, when you want it in three. But if you stay disciplined, you can do this, which is why I love the phrase, and I'll leave it with you now, keep moving forward. So it was a good time, guys. I'm probably going to keep talking about it a lot because it was just, just a great, great experience. And I'm probably going to invite a bunch of you guys to come do some Spartans with me next year.

So.

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Tom Gallen welcomes Billy Coggins to the show

Just email tom gallen. com all right, guys, well, I know why I came here today. I think it's the same reason you did, too. So let's get our, guests coming on. You guys ready? Hope so. Welcome to the show, Mr. Billy Coggins. What's up, Billy?

What's going on, guys?

Man, I. I actually do feel guilty because I. I was like, wait, when was the last time you're on the show? It was year and a half ago.

Yeah, November 2023. feels like a lifetime ago.

I know. I do. I do feel bad. I'm like, wait, is that long ago? So, it's been fun getting to know you. I was kind of reminiscing, how long we've known each other. It's four. It's at least four years. Maybe five years, right?

Yeah. Coming up on. Coming up on four, years. I. I started with you in September of 21.

Okay.

Yeah. And, remember that first phone call?

You do?

Yeah, of course.

Was it good or bad?

No, it was great. I mean, I. So the first. The first time that really, like, I feel like, got me interested in your program and everything. Greg Matthews had done the podcast right before you, and he was talking about, like, his massive projects and everything. And I was stuck here in Long island thinking that, like, you know, a 50 light install was, you know, the biggest and baddest thing that you could do, you know? And, that just opened my eyes, made me realize, like, I've got to meet more people. I've got to get out there and. And see what's really going on in this industry and see what the possibilities are. And, that was. That kicked it off. That was everything.

That's awesome, man. Well, it's. It's really cool because I remember. I don't know, I. I probably don't remember our specific first phone call, but I could probably, like, if we started talking about it, like, oh, yeah, we did say that or whatever. But, you know, I. I get on these calls with people, and, I don't do a lot anymore, but we get on these calls and, like, I'm really excited, like, when I meet someone like you, I'm like, man, these guys are gonna do so good. And I feel that almost about everybody. Otherwise I'd be like, hey, it's not a good fit. You should go do this, or whatever. But for some reason, like, we don't have a hundred percent Billy Coggins success rate.

Landscape Lighting Secrets founder says getting traction requires getting uncomfortable

Like, what do you think that you're doing different than maybe some of the other people who join Landscape Lighting Secrets or, you know, or come, into the Facebook groups or whatever. And, like, why do you get traction and they don't?

I mean, you know, there's nothing special about me, that's for sure. You know, I, I'm not the best lighting designer in the world. I'm not the best salesperson in the world, the best marketing. what I'm the best at, I feel like, is just like bringing a competitive spirit to anything that I do that will drive me to, you know, new heights every year. And so, it's. It's really just a culmination of trying to wake up every day and being 1% better than I was the day before. and so that means getting uncomfortable. We talk about that so much. you know, hiring that office manager when I didn't want to, you know, I, like, I remember just, like, dreading having to spend that money when I didn't feel like I could afford it and doing that, you know, getting my office building. Like, last time we spoke on this podcast, I didn't have an office space. And so, you know, doing that, and everyone's like, why do you need that? You know, you don't need that. And I was like, well, it's going to help me propel the business, because the people that I bring in here and interview to come work for me, we're going to have a nicer space to be able to, you know, sit down, actually have a table to have meetings at, you know, somewhere we could fit a whiteboard and do whiteboarding sessions and have inventory in the shop. and so I didn't need it, but I knew that it was necessary. And so, like, just continuing to make sure that you're pushing yourself to uncomfortable heights. And we're continuing to do that this year, with a location that we opened in Boston. And, you know, that was scary. It was, you know, definitely frightening. Like, I don't have every single thing figured out in business. we're learning, you know, along the way, you know, digging ourselves a hole and climbing our way out of it and just making sure that every day you Know, we continue to get better.

That's a solid perspective. I think a lot of it has to do with your competitive background. You know, you got your wrestling background. I think if someone's competitive, they're. They're. They're gonna find a way to win in business, too. It might not be pretty. It might not be, you know, the way they want it to happen or something like that. So I think that's huge.

Billy says when he made the move to Boston, he had overwhelming support

The other thing you mentioned, and I think this is so important. This is why I'm such a proponent of joining communities. And, you know, selfishly, I talk about landscape, lighting secrets, but even if it's not that, like, whatever it is. And again, this is coming from someone who six years ago, was not pro community. I was pro, like, do everything on my own. But this is so important because our family, our friends, our local people, they're gonna. They're gonna give their resistance. They're gonna say, what? You don't need a showroom, you don't need an office. Like, why are you doing this? You're going to go to a second location. You're not even ready. You don't even know what you're doing. Right? And they're not doing it because they're evil. They're doing it because they love you, because they're trying to protect you, and they think they're. That you have your best interest. And. But when you join these communities of people who can. Can challenge you the other way and say, hey, what if you did this? What if you did that? I just think it's so important because that's going to get you out of it. You're. Your family wants you to stay comfortable. Because if Billy goes and does this, and your friends, especially your friends, are like, well, if he. If he's successful, what does that say about me?

Right? Yeah. And it was. It was interesting because before Boston, a lot of the decisions that I made, I felt like I did get a lot of pushback from family and friends and just kind of like questioning, like, are you sure that you're ready to make these kind of moves? And it's interesting. I feel like now I have more of a proof of concept concept that what I am doing is working. The investments that I've made into the business have paid off up until this point. And so when I went to make this move to Boston, I had so much support that I wasn't even, like, prepared to accept. You know, my wife couldn't have been more supportive. You know, she knew that this was going to take me Away potentially from the family more. And, you know, it was a big endeavor I was investing into this. My. My dad, who I've talked about a lot, you know, on this podcast prior to, you know, he was one of the biggest proponents of, you know, m. You don't need the warehouse. I was working out of his shop, you know, but, like, once again with the Boston thing, it's like, go get it. You know, you can do it. You know, you. Everything that you've done so far at this point has paid off for you. Not everything, but most things. And so. And like, even friends are like, wow, that's amazing. You're going to kill it up there, you know? You know, I can't wait to watch you grow. And so it was really cool to see everyone, just. Just kind of start to gain momentum behind me, like my. In my group, friends and family that I have behind me. Just really, like, keep pushing me and believe in what we're doing here at Nightlight.

That's awesome.

Billy Coggins talks about balancing family and business with Nightlight

I did forget to ask you, and I forget because we do talk so often, but would you just do like, a quick intro of yourself? You were. I know you were on the show already and stuff, but who is Billy Coggins in Nightlight?

Yep. So, I'm a husband, to my wife Taylor. couldn't do any of this without her. So supportive. A father of two boys, 1 and 2 years old, Carter and crew. And so that's been a big change my life, obviously, in the last couple years. And super, motivating. Also motivating to, like, delegate more and get more time with them. And so it. It pushes you in multiple different ways. I'm a wrestler, graduated from University of Virginia in 2015. wrestled there for five years. And, you know, I'm a fan. I'm really family oriented. I like to be home with my family. I like to do things with them. And, I'm a business owner, so.

Love it, man. Well, a lot. I mean, a lot has changed in the last couple years for you, both personally and professionally, with wife and kids and office space, office manager. and I like that you mentioned that because I think you've done a good job with. The question I like to propose is what has to be true. So, like, if I want to be a really good husband and I want to be a good dad and I want to be successful in a business, like, what has to be true. And I feel like. I feel like you've done a good job with that. Where did you start, in terms of, like, growing your business? What were some of the first more difficult moves for you?

yeah. I mean, when I started my business, I didn't have anyone, that relied on me really. You know, I was single. I was, like 25 years old. You know, if. If I messed up or if I had to work really long hours or whatnot, I could just do it. There was no one I needed to come home to. but now, obviously, you know, being able to build out my team, and it's something I really want to talk about was just how reliable my team has been for the past couple years. You know, having, the same installation guys for three years in a row that they've, you know, just stuck with me. And I've. I've preached the vision of what we're going to do in this company to them. and they. They've been ride or die. And then I have my office manager. So, you know, it's. It's allowed me to free up some of my time. But obviously now as I start to expand and I have, you know, more mountains to climb, I feel like we're just getting started. There's going to be times where I do have to invest a lot more time back into the business. And so I'm, ready for that, and the family's, you know, ready for that. But, you know, just trying to keep an even balance as much as possible, when you can, because it can get out of hand quick if you let it.

It comes down to ability to take risk. Um, there is no conceding to failure in my eyes

So what's it been like? You hired Denise, and I do remember, and this isn't just unique to you. Pretty much everyone that I work with and when I was doing it was the same way. I'm like, man, I can't afford an office manager because if I get an office manager now, I got to get a space for them to work. And, like, the numbers start adding up quick, and you're like, can I afford this? What was that? Like, what has that experience been like, hiring her and going through the whole process of that?

Well, it's been, life changing, to be honest with you. the return on my time has been much more valuable than the expense that went into hiring someone for that position. there's a lot of things in business that I didn't necessarily know if it was going to work out. I knew I had to do that at some point, but I didn't know if I was ready. And then the same thing with the marketing stuff, right? Like, you know, hiring, Patio SEO to do my marketing stuff on retainer for, you know, it's not cheap. but I made that move and we rebranded the company and that was a big thing and we started creating more content. We went on Facebook and all those things and I didn't. You don't know if all this stuff is going to work out. You know, you're, you're just taking educated guests based on market research and what has worked for other people's companies in the past, whether it be home service companies or other people with lighting companies. and so these are all just, you know, you're making educated decisions and you're trying to get the biggest return on your, on your time and on your investment into that position in the company.

Yeah, I think it's, this is such a solid point. Like most, most people, if they're not where they want to be, you can almost reverse engineer it and find out where, where, why they're not succeeding. And it comes down to the ability to take risk. Yeah, almost everybody, they're like, I can't afford it and you know, now's not the right time. And they make all these excuses. At some point you got to take the risk.

And the, and the other thing too is, just go sell more jobs, you know, reverse engineer how much your business has to make in order to be able to be profitable with these certain members in your company. Right. And so if I know I'm paying someone X and I still want to be running on a 25% net profit, like, I know I might have to go sell another $400,000 this year to stay where I want to be. Right. And so that's where that competitive nature comes in. Where, like, if I set my mind to like a revenue number, I'm going to do whatever it takes to get to that revenue number so that way I can stay profitable. there is no conceding to failure in my eyes.

How long do you let something ride until you determine to cut losses

So how long are you willing to give something a shot whether it's hiring a new team member? I mean, you got, you hired a new office manager, you're promoting your, your internal guys. You hired a, this, ah, marketing company.

Yes.

How long do you let something ride? Because it's everything that you've talked about. I know wasn't a flip of a switch and was just no straight cash. Like, oh my gosh, return on investment, baby. It was difficult. So how long do you let these things ride until you determine to cut them or double down?

Yeah, I mean, I've made some big mistakes too. you Know, bringing on certain people in the organization that I, was willing to pay a lot of money that I thought was going to be transformative. And those were learning moments. And some of them lasted a little bit longer than they should have, you know, three, four months, in the company where I was. Where I was continuing to pay them and training them and really nurturing them, and, at some point you have to cut your losses. And so that has happened multiple times over the last couple years. I don't regret it for a second, to be honest with you. that extra X number of dollars in the bank account, while I wish it didn't happen, it was a lesson learned, and I'll use that moving forward because I'm young in business. Like, I have plenty more mistakes to make make. And so if, like, if I can get through these m. Mistakes quicker, then I know I'm going to be able to learn much faster. And so, you know, don't want to make mistakes, but when they happen, you use them as a lesson.

Yeah, that's. That's. That's a huge thing. That's one thing that. It took me a long time to learn that. And I was so afraid to make an investment in time or money into something because if it doesn't work, then it's a waste of money. It took you. Sometimes it takes you three months to. To make the amount of money lost. But then when you realize, well, that's actually just an investment in knowing what not to do next time or whatever it is, it's easier to swallow so you can give you the courage to make the investment the next time.

Yep, 100%.

So, you know, what's interesting about your business is I feel like. Do you remember when. When Covid first happened like that, the first panic mode of like that first month or two.

Yeah.

Everyone was like, crap, dude, what are we gonna do? my wife included, like, what's gonna happen? Does this mean, like, no one's gonna.

Hire you or whatever?

Like, I don't know. I'm not a see the future. But, I. I don't freak out anymore because I. I'm like you. I'm m. Like, no, their failure is not an option. If I have to pivot, if I have to try something else, like, we're not going homeless, you know?

Right.

but everyone, like, really did well in. In especially the landscape, lighting industry, any. Any home improvement, anything like that. But everyone did really well. People were riding big waves, big numbers, big growth. But then what I noticed is the Last, especially this year and the last part of last year, people weren't feeling that wave as much anymore. And people are like, hold on, maybe I don't have my marketing dialed in. Maybe I'm not as good at sales as I thought. Maybe, you know, they start questioning everything. but you are on the up and up. So what, what are you doing to put yourself in this position where you're actually growing, where a lot of other companies around the US are struggling for leads, struggling for sales and kind of wondering what their future looks like?

Yeah, I think that it's multifaceted. number one, just the. For like, I don't. This isn't all rainbows, right? I mean, I've been honest with you. And like June was a tough month for us. you know, it was like the worst June I've had in three or four years. but then first couple days of July, like we're gonna have a record July. Right. And so it's just about like being consistent, not getting too high, not getting too low, making sure like you're focusing on inputs, not outputs. Like if you keep doing what you know is going to make you successful, just stay on that path. And so that's really been like the foundation of it. the marketing end of the business. I never really had a true, plan, like marketing plan, a marketing budget. What were we going to spend, what was going to be the return on that investment? and then when I brought on my marketing team, so I hired a fractional CMO service. And so they handle all of my, basically my content creation. Facebook, Instagram ads, Google Ads, SEO, gmb, all the stuff that, you know, is involved in that marketing mix. and just stayed really consistent with them. I was gonna bring someone in house originally. cause I was just frustrated with not being able to have the communication I needed with my marketing team when I was with, you know, an agency or whatever the case may be. And so. Cause I had fired like four of them in the past. Cause I just, I wanna be in constant contact with the marketing team. What's working? What do we need to change? Like how do we really dial this thing in? So I started working with them. they basically told me, listen, you provide an unbelievable service. Your landscape lighting designs and the way you service your clients are top notch. But nobody knows about you. It does not matter how good you are at landscape lighting, if no one knows to call you about landscape lighting. And so, James, at Patio, SEO was like, you need to get in front of people. And you need to put your face on camera, you need to put it all on the line. Like, I don't care that you don't want to be filmed because I didn't want to be filmed at first. You need to be standing in front of a camera and you need to be educating the market on who you are, what landscape lighting is, how it's supposed to be done and the proper way to do it. And so it's been about a year and a half now of just like consistently filming content. I'm not the most well spoken. I make mistakes.

You have to do what your coach or the CMO is telling you to do

you know, it doesn't have to be perfect, but, progress over perfection. 100% just film, film, film. And so that's been huge for me and I wouldn't be in the position I am right now if I didn't start doing that when I did. For sure.

Yeah. Well, I hope James doesn't listen to this because I don't want to make his head any bigger than it already is, but he, he really does know his stuff.

At the end of the day, like with any, like, people joining your program too. Right, right. You have to do what your coach or the CMO is telling you to do. And so a lot of people join these programs or join like with James or whatever the case may be, and they might not see as much success because they didn't buy in 100% into what they're preaching. And so, I just knew like, if I was going to make this investment because it was expensive at the time for me, that I was just going to do whatever he told me to do. And so I, you know, I've tried to do that as much as possible and it's definitely, definitely paid off.

Going to Italy increased our average ticket by 3x, according to Eli

the other thing too, that I wanted to just like, touch on was just having this, true, like, belief in what we do is bringing value to the market and the clients that we serve. And it was huge for me to go to Eli and go back as a mentor and, and not so much try to sell landscape lighting, but, bring my passion into landscape lighting with clients and advise them on how great their property could look when it's done properly. And so that increased my average ticket after I went to Italy, it 3x, my average ticket from 2023 to 2025. Because after you go to Italy, now I'm putting 18 lights on this one tree instead of two. Like maybe I have, you know, would have been doing beforehand, but. And I'm not, I don't have to sell the client on those 18 lights. They don't even know that there's 18 lights going on that tree. I'm just gonna, I'm just telling them, listen, this is how I'm gonna light this tree and it's going to be beautiful and it deserves to be lit like this. And so, that was, that was huge too because the average ticket and what we're doing has really driven ourselves up a lot.

Yeah, I do want to get to that. I kind of want to finish marketing a little bit.

Bill: Stay consistent is a great tip on increasing your average ticket

And then I do want to talk about kind of your strategy and what you've done to increase your average ticket. A couple of things you touched on like May, you had a great month. June. It's like what happened, Bill? You go on vacation. Yeah, it really was terrible. But the thing is it doesn't mean that you weren't on vacation. You were still doing the inputs, you were still doing all those things. And then what happened is they paid off in July. So now you're gonna have this, you know, record breaking July and all that. But most people overreact for both ways. Like, oh, May was good. Let me turn off marketing because I don't even know how we're gonna handle all this work. And turns out you didn't turn off your marketing and it still was slow. So can you imagine if you did turn off your marketing?

Right.

And so I think just staying consistent is a great tip that you shared.

Talk a little bit about, um, putting yourself out there. I mean personal branding is taking over

Talk a little bit about, putting yourself out there. I mean personal branding is taking over. It's going to be the thing over the next five to 10 years. It's, it's, I think, yeah, there's, there's business branding and stuff but people want to buy from people, especially with AI coming out more and more and just everything else. is there any, any tips you'd share there? I mean you said progress over perfection. But any other tips on just getting out there, filming content, filming yourself, speaking your mind, developing your voice?

Yeah, I'm not the, I don't mind public speaking. I don't mind getting in front of someone and talking at all, whether it be, you know, large groups and whatnot. but sometimes, you know that ADHD will kick in and I can go on a rent, you know, multiple different directions. So I might need some edits and whatnot in there. So I wouldn't say I'm the person to like model like how to like, you know, have an elevator spit speech, on social media. But what I'll just say is just Be authentic and be yourself. And like, people want to know people, people want to buy from people that they know, like, and trust. Right. It's like the oldest saying in the book. And so if you're authentic and you're Billy, when you're on Instagram and you're on Facebook and you're posting these stories and you're posting these ads, when you show up to the house, it doesn't take 30 minutes for them to get to know you. After three minutes of talking to you, they've already listened to your videos for 30 minutes to an hour while they've been learning about your company and so building rapport with the clients. At that point, the half the battle is done. and so that's been super helpful. And so like I said, just be yourself and put yourself out there. And it'll bring in more than just clients. It'll bring in relationships with other, companies to do business with, whether it be referral partners. It even helped me make my expansion to Boston, was putting myself out there on Instagram. And so, I just think it's been transformative for the way that my business is run.

Very cool. Yeah, I mean, if you guys aren't taking notes, I don't know what to say.

Billy Coggins says rebrand has helped boost his company's success

So, what role has your rebrand? I think was it last year that you kind of did the mini Rebrand for what?

Yep,2024.

So what, what role has that had on some of the success you're having as well?

Yeah, we just wanted to, elevate the brand to more of a luxury type, service. And so when people visited our website or, or saw the Mercedes Sprinter truck that's wrapped, you know, just super, super clean, just the logo on the side and huge font. you know, I saw the companies that are out in the Hamptons and other people that are super successful with high end clients in Long Island. It's very minimalistic. and you know, so I just wanted to create this brand that just felt rich and it felt like luxury. I think it's made a big impact. it's really hard to measure the value of the brand because it just kind of gets filtered through everything else that you do. so there's hard to wait, it's hard to like, you know, attribute it to any, you know, particular number. But I have to imagine that it's played a major part in our ability to continue to scale through these tougher years.

Yeah, I mean, just from an outsider perspective, I mean, I see, I don't even see all your social media stuff. But when I, when I. The stuff, I see the, the way you, are interacting with the audience on there and your brand and all that, there's a huge difference. If I'm sure if someone went back to your profile, you know, three years ago, like Billy 1.0, to Billy 2.0 and Nightlight 2.0, like, it's. It's a huge difference. Your terminology, the way you speak, how you speak. I know, Billy. That was huge influence on me as well. so, yeah, I think, I think that's awesome, man. Hey, ah. do you want to, do you want to do my lightning round quick hit controversials?

Yeah, I've been, I've been looking forward to the, lightning round actually.

Yeah, we just started. I think it's really cool. So I think we should do this. We're trying to, you know, get some controversial subjects here, so. All right, we're gonna play lightning round quick hit controversials with Billy Coggins.

Let's go.

Homeowners who ask for rgbw. com modular fixtures are fine

All right, so, integrated fixtures or drop ins?

Modular.

Okay, nice. design first or functionality first? What's more important?

Functionality?

Homeowners who ask for rgbw. Tasteful or tacky?

It's a personal preference, but I'll say tasteful for the one that, you know. People that ask for it, if they like it, it's fine.

man, I can just tell people like, oh, what. What did he just say? Controversial.

Sorry.

Sorry. Italy. Love you. Jam.

Yeah.

Do most lighting contractors over complicate the design process

Do most lighting contractors over complicate the design process?

No, I would say they under complicated. Needs to be more detailed.

Okay. Nighttime demos. Secret sauce or waste of time?

Secret sauce. When you're first starting. Waste of time. If you have an established portfolio, would.

You ever let a client dictate the fixture layout? No bigger sin. Exposed wire or crooked path lights?

Exposed wire.

Oh, so you're fine with crooked path lights. Okay.

Making sure they won't work if the wire is cut anyway.

So it's just exposed. It's not cut.

It's gonna get cut.

No, because you can see the wire, so it won't get cut.

Oh, maybe I'm just gonna leave all my wire exposed then.

Yeah, it's just, duh. why would you bury it?

You've actually had it in your program.

No, but I had a client that told me that they're like, in the. They showed me this client proposal. They said, so do you bury your wire? I'm like, absolutely. And they're like, yeah. They said it was better not To. Because then that way, you wouldn't cut it. And I'm like, it's freaking genius, Denise.

Change your process.

I know. Why are we doing this? what's more important, Being a better designer or being a better salesperson?

Salesperson.

Wow. Jan is gonna break up with you.

you can't sell your design if you can't sell it. So.

Should contractors ever discount to win a job

Should contractors ever discount to win a job?

I would say negotiations are healthy, but everyone has to win.

And would you rather close fewer jobs at higher margins or more jobs at lower margins?

Fewer jobs at higher margins.

Do you sell the client what they want or what they need?

It's got to. The answer's got to be both, right? That one's got to be both.

It's quick and controversial. It can be whatever you want.

I'm gonna go with both.

Educate, the client or just give them what they ask for?

Educate the client.

Would you rather install an average design at a killer margin or a masterpiece that barely breaks even?

A masterpiece that barely breaks even.

Nice. Wow. what closes? Well, if you had to do that every week.

No, not every week. But if you can do that to build your portfolio and have, you know, a portfolio to help you grow your business, it's worth it.

Are most lighting businesses really designers or just glorified installers

All right, what closes? More deals, Stunning photos, or a confident pitch?

Photos to show m. Me. Don't tell me. Business.

Which wins more jobs? Polished branding or personal referrals?

Referrals.

Is it better to be the best designer in town or the most visible online? I think you already answered that.

if they don't know who you are, doesn't matter how good you are at designing.

Yeah, you actually did say that earlier.

Yeah.

And then the last one. Are most lighting businesses really designers or just glorified installers?

Most. Most are glorified installers.

Most, yeah.

Quick hit Controversials with Billy. That was a long one

All right, guys, that was awesome. Quick hit Controversials with Billy. So hopefully we generated some haters for you out there.

That was a long one. There was a lot of questions. You loaded me up.

I kept. I kept coming up with some. I was. I was using chat GPT, so. But I was like, more, more, more.

Let's, like, get. Let's try to get everyone to hate Billy.

Yeah, it's like, come on. Yeah, some of them were more controversial than others, so I was like, oh, this is a good one. This. This fits Billy. I want to know the answer that Billy would say. I think most of those, I would have guessed, but a couple of them, I was a little surprised.

Which one?

I don't Know, I didn't take notes. probably the pathways. Crooked path lights. Crooked path lights. Billy, over here.

That one's tough.

all right, we'll get back into it. I still have a lot of things I want to go over.

You decided last year that you're not doing holiday lighting anymore

so you're kicking butt this year. Things are going good. Not everything's perfect. you decided at some point, I think it was last year, that you're like, okay, I'm not going to do holiday lighting anymore. What spurred that?

Just a lack of passion, for it, to be honest. and an increase in passion for outdoor lighting. And so, in addition to that is my confidence in our ability to generate leads throughout that season in landscape lighting. And so I knew if I could replace November and December with great landscape lighting projects, while they might not be reoccurring, and you know, that's a great part about holiday lighting is having that reoccurring revenue. I'd still rather do landscape lighting during those months and have those months with my family and not want to, you know, sleep under a bridge. I just didn't, I just didn't enjoy it. I never enjoyed it from the beginning. I felt like it was always a necessary evil. and I just got to that point where, I just wanted to get out of it. And, and for the people that do it really well, that have great systems and all, that's like, I just, I kind of ran it like a half, half ass company, to be honest. Like that part of the business. I just did not enjoy it. I didn't put the effort into it that I needed to. And I don't like doing things without, like, my full passion behind it. So it was just time to kind of hang it up.

Yeah, I like it. I think it's going to help you stay focused. And, I mean, it's, it's not that you've gotten there this year, but just, I think just knowing that you don't have to do that, you've got plans to do other things, so. Which is cool.

Yeah. Yep.

So this year's doing good, man. I mean, you've got a lot of things going good for you. your cells are up.

You mentioned how your sales are up, your average tickets up

Can we talk a little bit? You mentioned how your, average tickets up. What, what are the factors that have gone into that? I mean, your sales are up, your average tickets up.

yeah. So, just being super design focused, and making sure that you're not sacrificing your design on a property just to like, land a job where in the past, maybe if I didn't have a backlog of jobs for three or four weeks. I might, you know, let's, let's sacrifice the design to get the job. And now that job goes from a $20,000 project down to a $12,000 project. we get to, we're, we're able to pick and choose a little bit more on the projects that we want to take on with people that I can feel appreciate what we're about to do on their property for them. and then the other ones, you know, I'm training one of my service guys technicians to handle you know, maybe more of the systematic cookie cutter projects. And so his his sales ability is increasing. He's getting experience talking of being client facing and so that's been good. So we've been pushing that over to him a little bit and I've just been really focusing more so on these on these larger jobs that I can bring my passion to. And I feel like we can really portray our true ability onto these properties.

Well, earlier when I was doing my little monologue thing, it's like, it really is easier. The bigger you get, the more business experience you have because you can say no to certain things. And it's like you have the, the ability because you're booked out six weeks.

Yeah.

But you remember being that guy where you're like dude, we don't have any work tomorrow.

Oh, yeah.

Would you like, do you regret that? Like what would you tell the person listening? That's like, that's, that's fine for you but like I gotta take. If someone, if I gave him a twenty thousand dollar proposal and they were just willing to give me ten, I would take that. Would you tell them to do that or would you tell them a different strategy?

No, I would definitely tell them to do it. You know, I'm not, I'm not someone that's like. There's been times this year that someone has like cut the proposal from 150 fixtures down to 50 fixtures. Right. And but we, we've designed one area on their property at this point. Like I'm, I'm over the, I'm over the point of spreading 50 fixtures out through an entire property at where I had three times that many on my design. After showing them the portfolio of the. This is where we get into trouble with. This is because you've set an expectation. When you show them the portfolio, you set an expectation and now you agreed to cut that into a third and still do the project. I don't care how many times you try to tell them that this is not like the real full potential design. If you go forward with that project, they're thinking portfolio. That's what I saw. That's what I'm going to experience my property. And it's just not possible. And so, you know, just educating them on, like, listen, this is how we're going to do this. We're going to cut this project into a third. What is the biggest priority? Let's take care of that first. We're going to make it unbelievable just like what you saw in the portfolio. And then next year we'll move on from there.

That's huge, I think. Yeah. Separating into phases is the solution. I remember we had a lady who like was refusing to pay small project, 5 or $10,000. Can't remember the exact number. My designer at the time was having a hard time collecting. And so I go in, go over to her house, meet with her actually decent lady. But she, that's one thing she said. She goes, it just doesn't look very good. I mean, do you agree, like, it doesn't look like the, the stuff that you guys showed me. It doesn't look like your website doesn't look like the portfolio. And I was like, no, it, it definitely doesn't.

Yeah.

Remember how he called, quoted you like double the amount of lights and how you didn't want to pay that? Like, and, and I, and I think she had a fair point. It's like, well, as a designer, like, shouldn't you have some pushback there? It's like, absolutely, we should, I think that's our obligation to be like, listen, it's not going to look good. Why don't we, yeah. try to spread it out. Let's just start with the front or let's just start with the back or this zone. So that's great advice.

Yeah. And, and with clients that I've done with that within the past, you know, before I, you just get, you get kicked hard when you do that. And because it's, it's such a bad feeling, you took this people's money, you feel like you over promised them something, meanwhile you were just trying to like fit their budget and, and do, you know, create lighting on their property. but when someone's like really disappointed that they spent $10,000 with you, it's not a good feeling. And so I don't like feeling that. I'd much rather, if I can phase it out and if we can't just maybe it's just not the right client and they just, they don't appreciate the power of lighting as much as we do. so just find the right clients.

Can we talk customer acquisition costs? How much is all your marketing costing you

do you know, I don't know if we talked about this. Can we talk customer acquisition costs? How much is all your marketing costing you as a percentage?

Yeah, so I was just running the numbers the other day. so far this year we have 41 installs sold. And so it's not a tremendous, it's less than last year at this point. but we're, we've 2x our sales, and so our customer acquisition costs actually went up, because we have less clients that we've gotten, but our return on ad spend has went down.

Interesting.

So our customer acquisition costs around eleven hundred dollars. and. But our return on ad spend is like 30x. And so it's, it's kind of, it's because we're picking and choosing the projects that we want to work with.

Well, a lot of people might hear, go 1100. You paid $1100 for a client. It's like, absolutely. You know, if your average job is, 20,000, I mean that's five and a half percent, I would do that. Why would you not just continue to try to find like 1100, 1100, 1100, try to do that 10 times a day.

So last year when I started doing all this marketing stuff with the Facebook and you know, Google and whatnot, and I've been doing it prior, but when I really dialed it in, last year was the first time I set a marketing budget. And so I reversed engineered the entire thing. you know, what was my cost to acquire a client last year? what was my conversion rate? and I put all these numbers into it. And I knew that if I spent an X number number of dollars, and I'll give you the numbers, If I spent $40,000 on Facebook ads this year, that based on the numbers from last year and how it converted, it should generate $1.1 million business. And so, you know, that's just under 4%. And so that's. Then we space it out through the months on where we saw Facebook ads converting better from last year. Because it's weird, some months Facebook ads will convert better, and then some months Google Ads will convert better. And so we have that data from last year. Twelve months of data, look through it and be like, wow, in May, Google Ads crushed it. And it was consistent with this year too. And then in the summer months, for whatever Reason it was, you know, July and August last year. Facebook ads were killing it for us. And maybe that's because people who saw the ads kind of kick on in April, May and June. It's a slower drip, right? You're catching them at the top of the funnel. And so it takes them a couple months to see that stuff and see your work and see you talking, and then they start calling you a couple months later. And so we just, we allocated all the budgets out and where we needed to be, and then, and just jumped up the ad spend to where we, you know, the growth that we wanted.

That's hard. I mean, most people don't have that ability because they, they want to. It's. It's like, I was talking the other week about identity. Like, you. You have to change who you are in order to expect a different result. You have to invest into marketing first before you get it. So you're. You're projecting, saying, hey, we're going to spend this 40, not, not knowing, you know, if there's going to be a return on it. And unfortunately, some people start their marketing or their investment in the wrong month doesn't mean it's wrong forever. But so they're like, you know, drop five grand or whatever, and they're like, oh, man, didn't work.

Right?

Have you, have you had those months? You said you've had some months that were slower and didn't work as well?

No, 100%. I mean, you know, there's definitely months where it feels like, you know, you look at all the data from all your ads and people just don't seem to be interested. Right. And you can't control that. I mean, once again, focus on the inputs, continue to make content, continue to educate the market, continue to do all the other things that I'm not talking about with referral partners and introducing and making connections in your community. Like, all that stuff is important, obviously. It's super important. but just focus on the inputs. And not everyone is doing this. Like, you have to do more what other. You have to do more of the hard things than what other people are willing to do. And so, like, it's boring and sometimes it stinks. Like, you're on a job site and you're just filming yourself walking around. And, like, the client comes like, what is this? You know, what is this guy doing? And. But it pays off. And sometimes in the beginning, you might feel embarrassed doing it, you know, talking to yourself on the camera. But if you have the mindset of, like, I'M helping someone. Like, if I don't get this information out there, they might go call someone else that isn't going to provide them the service that we're going to provide them. And so we need to continue to just make sure that we're getting in front of as many people as we can that want a high end outdoor lighting system that's going to last them a long time. And so, you know, don't be selfish. Like, if you have a great company and you provide a great service, then you need to make sure everyone knows about it.

That's awesome. I. It is super embarrassing though, like, doing this video and when it. The first time I ever did it and even now I have, I'm like, I'm on camera a lot, but even now it's like, stop watching me. Like, when someone's watching you, it's just like, stop. Like, I just want to go hide in a room somewhere and film content. I don't want people watching this. Like, you just feel like.

I hate when I'm in the house and my wife will be on Instagram or Facebook and she's just scrolling. One of my ads comes on. I hear my voice, like, come out of nowhere. The worst, the worst, the worst. I immediately like, tell her to scroll off or I leave the room. Like, I've heard that a million times. but I've had clients tell me, like, I hear your voice in my sleep. Like, that's how often your ads are popping up on my phone. I'm like, pull the trigger. so, yeah, it's, it's been big. It's been big.

Billy, how did you get to the Boston market through social media

And I'd like to, I don't know, you know, what your next question is, but I'd like to get into like, how that helped me get to the Boston market. because I think that's probably the biggest thing that we've done this year. and the scariest thing that we've done for sure.

Well, how did that, how did social media. Well, let me tell you, the Boston market.

Well, so Brian Tuohy is the general manager up in Boston. And he saw me through a mutual friend on social media, someone I hadn't talked to in like 15 years. And this mutual friend, I guess been following me, saw my stuff and Brian from Boston and this guy are friendly through their wives. And just because I'm always on his phone, I, was top of mind and he was like, hey, Brian, I know you kind of want to get out of the electrical field and you want to niche Down. You were talking about landscape lighting. You should talk to my, classmate from high school about it, because I see his stuff all the time, and he seems to be killing it. And so Brian DMed me on Instagram. We got on the phone. This is right after one of the legends meetings. So, you know, I'm all fired up to grow my business and do uncomfortable things. and, we got on the phone and, you know, he basically cold called me. And we figured out a way to kind of work this thing out. And so it opens up a lot of opportunities. And, I couldn't be more excited about the opportunities that we have in Boston. I think that very rarely does an opportunity come across your plate where it kind of like lands in your lap. This random guy calls you.

I know.

And then it works out, right? He is who he said he was. I am who I said I was to him. Right. Like, we're both doing what we were supposed to do. It's like, hold on a second. This. This never works, you know? and so, it's. It's revitalized my passion. every day I get to mentor him and help him grow this business up in Boston. And, it's been super exciting, and, I'm just really excited for. For what's to come of it.

I know. And when you think about it, like, the odds of that starting m. Maybe later, but it would not have started right now with Brian if it wasn't for you getting uncomfortable putting yourself out there, building a relationship with this audience who. You have no idea. You probably didn't even know that your classmate was watching or something.

Yeah. Zero idea.

Yeah. So. So that's. That's so cool. And Brian is like. He's like, perfect. Because what's cool? Here's what's cool. Like, you did. You want to grow this empire. You. You want to do big things. But it is scary. Like, it's like, man, what if it doesn't work? And everything else. But what's interesting is, from an outside perspective, I've seen you start this new location, and Brian's energy is 100% absolutely impacting yours and getting you, fired up, even just for your main location there. So growth doesn't have to be a negative, scary thing. Like, you know, oh, man, I can't believe I got to do this. Like, he's. He's injecting all sorts of positive energy into the growth of the organization, which is something that's not going to show up on a P. L or balance sheet.

Yep. No, I think that, it's just proof that you have to surround yourself with people that are like minded, that bring you up, that don't have negative energy and who are inspired. Right. That are hungry to, like, go make something of themselves and go build something. And those people are out there. And if you're in business long enough, I'm sure there's plenty of people on this podcast that are listening. Is like, man, I haven't met someone like that that wants to come, come, you know, work with me. Like, it's hard to find those people, you know, but they're definitely out there. And the more you put yourself out there, the, the better chance they find you, the better chance they want to come work for you. And they see the business that you're building, they get excited about it. You know, he was excited about the brand. He was excited about what we were building. He didn't know anything about Billy Coggins. He knew something about nightlife. And so that building that brand and putting yourself out there is, Is so important because it'll, it'll help you recruit. Like marketing. Recruiting is part of your marketing plan.

Now. It truly is. It makes everything easier. yeah.

If you'll stay consistent online, people don't know dirty details

It's so cool to see one thing you said too, which is interesting. It was your classmate who told Brian, yeah, you know, you need to meet this, Meet this guy. It seems like he's doing good. I think that's, that's really important because we can all have bad months, weeks, years. But if you'll stay consistent online, people don't have to know the dirty details. You know, it really does create this, ah, version of you where people are like, hey, yo, he's. I mean, he must be doing good because he's on my feed every single day.

Yeah.

Just because you show up, it doesn't matter what you say, it doesn't matter if you sucked on camera or if you wore shorts. Like, they see you showing up every single day, which. That equals success in their mind. So.

Right.

No one ever was like, well, you know, but show me your bottom line. Like, they just assumed you were doing well. And there's just so many people that don't get that. Like, you got to keep putting yourself out there.

Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like that there's a toxic part of it too. Right. Where you're always like, comparing yourself to other people who, online, they look like they're living like these lavish lifestyles and, you know, or driving these amazing cars new while they rented them like five minutes earlier for A video. Right. but, but there, there is a benefit to it as well. And so if you can use it to your advantage, definitely do it.

I know. I rented my Dodge Ram right before I made my video.

That's sick.

That's sick. It's stock. You know, a lot more value in stock these days.

That thing have a Hemi?

Oh, of course.

Duh.

no, it doesn't. It's got the diesel, it's got the Cummins baby.

That's right. I remember that long ride to Bryce Canyon.

Yeah. well, we're getting close to wrapping up. I still have a couple more for you.

What do you think's been your biggest challenge this year

What, what's been the. What. What do you think's been your biggest challenge this year? What, what's. What's spinning around in that mind where you're like, okay, this is the next thing. This is, this is what I got to solve?

Yeah, it's, getting to that point where I need leadership, in the company. And so, that's been a big focus of mine. And I'm trying to learn from, like I said, I've made mistakes in the past, and you learn from those mistakes. You try to learn from those mistakes. And so I'm trying not to rush into it, you know, not hire the first person that I talk to that, you know, tells me that they can do something for me and my company. but take my time, you know, put feelers out there. Like, I've been posting on social media, I've been talking to all my family and friends about it. Everyone knows that I'm looking to hire an operations manager, someone that can really help me run the day to day in Nightlight, create, systems and processes for Nightlight Long island and Nightlight Boston and future locations. And so I know that I, need to get this thing completely locked in. We have good systems and processes. Like, it runs pretty well. but I just know if it's going to scale to 2, 3, 4, 5 locations, it's going to be. Have to be franchise level. Right. Like, this is plug and play. This is how you run this thing. And so I'm looking for someone that's done this before and I can bring them into my organization and they can teach me something.

Yeah, that's cool. Well, you know, you're like classic, like gap in the gain. You got this gap of where you want to be and unsatisfied, still got to take over the world. But then when you measure backwards, like I've just been doing on this show, like thinking man, my boy Billy's all grown up now, so it's just, it's awesome. I didn't, I didn't even have this on the list. But you and Greg, you know, we started Lighting Legends just a year and a half ago. Two years ago, whatever. You guys are the only ones that have been in it both times. It has to be, this is unverified, but it has to be the most expensive, like highest ticket investment in any type of landscape, lighting group or training or anything like that. What, what prompted you to come back the second year?

Well, the first year after Legends is what pushed me to hire my office manager. Right? And I saw like, I wouldn't have done it without it. And it, like, I didn't go there with the intention of knowing that I was going to do this or anything. I didn't know that I really needed it, to be honest with you. But when you sit in a room with, you know, three or four at that time, like six people, and everyone's talking about their dreams and aspirations and whatnot, like, everyone in this also in the room had an office manager. You know, you surround yourself with people who are doing things where, you want to be instead of where you are or you're ahead of them. And so I surrounded myself with those people and I realized, like, man, I'm missing the boat here, so I got to jump on this. And so that pushed me to do something I wasn't ready to do. and it worked out very favorably. And so coming around to this year, like, yeah, listen, it's, it's never like going into this year, it's no question. but going into last year I was a little, like, hesitant because I was like, man, what if I don't have the money that I need in order to invest into this? You know, and so, but you know, we ended up having a really good year and I just, I was missing it so much. I felt like when I got out of Legends because I joined like three months late this year, from August until December, when I was out of it, I felt like this, this motivating factor that was behind me for the past year was suddenly like pulled from me and that, I'm not saying I can't self motivate, but when you're surrounded by a community of people that are trying to do the things that you're doing and you're having these high level conversations about it, there's nothing else, that will help you get where you want to go faster than being surrounded by People, that are going the same direction as you. And so I just felt like I needed it. Like, I missed it so much, and it was the best thing that I did this year for sure. it helped me spark Boston. you know, it's helped me, you know, design better. It's helped me, you know, run a more efficient operation. So, it's just a part of who I am at this point now, being surrounded by these types of people.

That's awesome, man. It's so cool because I know that the concept, I mean, these Masterminds have been around forever in other industries and, you know, again, I'm new in the last six years to it, but it's just cool to be part of it, too. I mean, I'm in the same room. You guys are taking notes and like. Like, I don't know if you guys know this, but I get a ton of value out of it, too, so.

Yeah, no, you do it. You do a great job. And, And last year was your first time running, like, a real Mastermind event like that, like a Legends, like a close, close group. And so. And you've gotten better, right? And next year you're going to be even better than you were last year. And so we're all kind of like, you know, this is the first time you've done that. But it was an amazing, year for the Legends group this year. And I'm sure everyone else in the group, you know, the two other gentlemen in the group, Greg and, and Keith would. Would say the same thing. Like, we're just. I feel like we're all firing and all cylinders.

I know. It's crazy. I'm like, I. I kind of like, my mind's blown of, like, the stuff that you guys are doing, you know, I'm like, that's what we want. I mean, it's one.

You told us. I said you told us to.

I know, but you normally, you, like, talk about stuff and then no one does it, you know, but what's.

That's.

Watching wrestlers progress is amazing. And, um, as a coach, I'm a coach myself

What's cool is you guys keep challenging each other and we keep motivating each other, and it's like, hey, I did this. Like, hell yeah, let's go next. Next gear, you know, so.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's not that I didn't think it was going to happen, but, okay, maybe there's a little bit of doubt.

It definitely feels good. And, as a coach, I'm a coach myself in the wrestling world, like, you want. This isn't for your own ego. When other People succeed. You know, like when someone wins a big wrestling match, for me, it's not like, oh, I coach that kid. Like, I'm like, taking ownership of their success. Right. It's just an unbelievable feeling to be a part of someone's story and watch them go from where they were in the beginning of the year to where they are now. And just knowing that, you saw that progression and then to watch it all pay off is the best thing in the world. So I'm envious of your job because you get to do that on a daily basis and make an income from it. I basically got to volunteer and do it, but, it's, it's super, super gratifying. So, and you work really hard at it, so good for you.

it's amazing. I mean, to be honest, I've never sold a few hundred thousand dollars project, so I don't, I don't even know what that's like because I've never done it. But I can tell you, like, just to. Just to have someone in your community that's doing it is freaking amazing. So, yeah, it's awesome.

Billy Miller talks about expanding Nightlight into other markets

Last, last thing and we'll wrap up. let's talk about the future. you know, next two, three, four, five years. when we, when we get back on here, the next time you're on is gonna be five years from now.

Good. Give me some time to make something happen.

Yeah, we'll have you on next year or maybe, maybe sooner. But, what do you anticipate? What do you see happening with Nightlight?

Well, you know, we have a lot of discussions about this, and, you know, I really have this vision of growing this brand, and expanding to other markets. You know, I want to make sure that the Long island territory is locked and loaded for success, before I pull too much of my attention out of it. So Boston is really kind of our proof of concept, and if we can get Boston off the ground and get it to the point where Nightlight, Long island is right now, I, I don't feel like there's anything that'll stop us from expanding to 3, 4, 5, 6 locations starting in the northeast, and then going from there. And so, I just, I really love business. I love landscape lighting, and if I could do more of it in more locations and help other people, you know, experience what I experience on a day to day basis, like watching Brian every single day be so thankful that he's in this industry and he doesn't even know anything about it. Yet he's only been doing it for three months, and every day he's like, this is the best decision of my life, and I'm going to crush this for my family, and I'm going to. You know, we're going to scale this thing to heights that we never thought were possible. I'm, able to experience a little bit of what you're able to experience, like, in the Legends group and, like, being able to, like, kind of, like, mentor someone to be successful. And I love that. Like, I love being able to do that. And then, you know, obviously, like, I've always had big dreams and visions of growing a big business, and so, and just helping as many people as I can. So that's the goal.

I love it, man. Well, thanks for letting me be a part of it. You, deserve everything you've gotten so far. You've worked your tail off, stressing, about things and worrying about things, some of which don't matter, but that's part of it. and, you're doing such a great job, man. It's just. It's just so cool to be just this tiny part of it. I know you. You work like crazy. You're.

You.

Your. Your. Your family, like, everything. Everyone's, you know, their sacrifices are paying off. So thanks for. Thanks for actually implementing as a coach. Like, you tell someone something, and they don't do it. It's like, okay, now what? Like, maybe we shouldn't work together.

Yeah, no, we try it. Not perfect, but every day get better. That's it. One percent better.

All right, man. Well, thanks again for coming on the show. Thanks for taking the time out of your day, and, really appreciate it, Billy.

No problem. Thank you.

All right, guys. Now just go do everything that Billy did, and you'll be fine.

Not everything.

All the good stuff.

All, Right.

See, everybody. Have a good week. We'll see you next week.