Lighting for Profits - Episode 214

Discover how Sarah van der Meer, founder of Holiday Home Concepts, is revolutionizing the lighting industry with cutting-edge design and measurement software. Learn how her platform helps business owners save time, increase sales, and scale with ease.

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Episode Transcript

All Light powered by Emory Allen. Welcome to Lighting for Profits

Welcome to Lighting for Profits. All light. All light. All Light powered by Emory Allen. Here is your host, Ryan Lee. Oh, light, all light, all light. Let's go back home, back in the studio. It's Lighting for Profits powered by Emory Allen.

Ryan Lee: If you want to grow a lighting business today is your day

I'm your host, Ryan Lee and it's time to go. If you are in the lighting industry, in fact, if you want to grow a landscape lighting business, a holiday lighting business, or a permanent lighting business, then today is your day. We're, we're going to be talking about a tool that can be very, very helpful to help you grow that business. So what's cool guys is we really are trending. It's the number one landscape lighting show in Plano, Texas. Can't believe it's true, but it is the number one landscape lighting show in Plano, Texas. we're here to educate and motivate to help you dominate. So hope, you'll stick around. Want to always thank you guys so much for your support. It's it's really, really cool that I'm still doing this. we're on episode two, something 200 and whatever. And I get to meet amazing guests on the show. I get to, learn so much. Like I, you guys don't understand like how many notes I take from this show. So thank you guys so much for your support. It means a lot. And there's 130 of you, 134 of you specifically that I want to thank because you've given me a five star review on Apple or Spotify. I'm getting closer to my one, hundred five star reviews on Apple, but we're not there yet. So if you haven't yet and you're like, well, you know what, today's the day. Go give me that five star review on Apple, where I think we're at 83. So I just need 17 of you, please. if I could send you a link, I would. It's just not that easy. So, please go give me that five star review. Today we got an awesome show lined up. We're going to be talking holiday lighting, permanent lighting, and actually a little bit of landscape lighting. We have Sarah Vandermeer with Holiday Home Concepts joining us on the show. And, we're going to talk about her journey as a lighting business owner and some of the challenges that she's faced and some of the problems that she's helping solve in the industry, which is really, really cool.

Lindsay spent 10 days on the road helping landscape lighting clients

So again, in just a couple of minutes we're Going to have Sarah Vandermeer with Holiday Home Concepts. And, before we have her on last week, I guess it was maybe the week before now, but I spent 10 days on the road. Lindsay was like, yes, he's leaving for 10 days. but it was a great 10 days. I was without my family, but, I was with my lighting family. It was a, it was Lighting Week. we did it. We did a few things. So first, we had our first ever in person Luminary meetup. we have different levels to our program. Spark, Ignite, Luminary and Legends. And Luminary is our second from top level. It was our first in person Mastermind. We had a virtual 101 about six months ago. This was in person. It was awesome. and then the next day we had our Lighting Legends mastermind, which we've, we meet regularly now three or four times a year. And then we finished it off with our, three days of secret Summit, actually two days of secret Summit. And then the, last day was the luxury illumination 10 year anniversary party. And there's too many things to, to bring up as highlights because there was a lot of highlights in there. but bringing the lighting community together was awesome. And to see these people, people challenging each other and being vulnerable and leveling up, was insane. And, and to see what these people are going to do, is going to be awesome because they're going to continually break records in the landscape lighting industry. After that, I hung around and drove from West Palm beach to Cape Coral, the other side of Florida, the West Coast. And I worked with Scott Beard at Get Lit Landscape Lighting. And, it was fun. We went out and helped, him close a couple deals on the spot. The first one was a $8,000 deal. I told him, hey, I'm going to run this one. And ended up being in, a permanent lighting job. They wanted some Omni. And I was like, crap, I'm not prepared to sell permanent lighting. I've never sold permanent lighting. I only know how to sell landscape lighting. And that was really cool because he got to see me figure things out in real time. And, turns out they told us at least four times, maybe five times, you know what? We're not going to make the decision today. We've got other bids lined up. We're getting quotes from others. And, somehow, some way, we still walked away with a check. We got a deposit check. We did the old walkout clothes. I said, no worries, you guys talk about it for as long as you guys need. We'll just be out the truck. Come get us when you're ready. And she walked out with the checkbook in hand. That was really, really cool. I think Scott was having a panic attack on crap. Why is, why are we not leaving? They told us to leave. Why are we still sitting at their table? but that was a really, really cool experience. They were, they were stoked to get on the board, to get their Omni lighting installed. Then the next day, next day, help, Scott close another deal on the spot. This one a little bit bigger. $13,000 job. And it was cool because this guy was giving us like really good feedback. He was like, hey, well yeah, like I want to know the number right now. Like I want to make a decision, right? And it was just, it was just cool because he's like, he was telling Scott in real time like, hey, like, you're the professional. I'm not the professional. I don't know. I need some guidance, right? So really, really cool. But we sat down on their, their back deck table, did a nice presentation and again went ahead and got the check. So, so many amazing conversations, learning moments. just all, all the different experiences over these, this 10 days was really, really cool.

The reason I like running is because I don't like mornings

and the theme, the theme of the week was unstoppable. The man who refuses to quit cannot be stopped. And it was awesome. In fact, the night before I forgot to tell everyone in advance to like, bring your running shoes, we're going to go for an early morning run. But I forgot. So like that night before I was like, hey, we're going for a 6am run. Which M. Some people are like, that's not early. Like no, that's early. I, I hate mornings guys. So 6am is like an early morning run. Some people are like done by 5. Right? But for me, 6am M is early. And the reason I like running is because I don't like running. It's really, really hard. And quite honestly a lot of times I just don't like it. But running helps me get the hardest part of my day over with. It gives me a perspective that like I can do anything else. Everything else in my day compared to that is actually pretty awesome. You know, without that perspective, I can find holes in the day. I can find ways to complain. Certain things I don't like. Right. The other reason I like running is because it conditions me to do hard things. So I saw a quote or someone said it, you know, informally or whatever. It's like running is like 10% strength and 90% talking yourself out of quitting. Doesn't that feel like business? Like, the most successful business owners, when you meet them, you're like, what, you're not that smart? You're not that. You're not that much more skilled than me. Like, you almost feel like maybe you. Maybe you know more than them, maybe you're stronger than them, whatever. But, like, they have the one thing you don't. They have the ability to do hard things for a longer period of time because most of us end up just quitting. And so when you look at, you know, the majority of these people, they're not smarter, they're not stronger, they're not better. They're just better at doing the boring things for a longer period of time. So when most people are giving up, they're doubling down, they're going stronger, they're going faster. And, running really helps me build that mindset to keep pushing forward when I want to stop.

What things in your business do you keep putting off

Okay, so I want to ask you what question? Or sorry, not. I want to ask you the question. What things in your business do you keep putting off? What things are uncomfortable that you're like, I know I need to do that, but I. I don't want to. I'd just go sell another job. I'll just go put out another fire. What did you start that you didn't finish? And a, giant hint is it's usually something like working on the business part. You know, it's that part that you just most. You don't like to do. But just because you don't like to do it doesn't mean it doesn't. Doesn't need to get done. Right. it's way more fun to just go meet with clients, install lights. Like, I get it. Right? But then you can't complain about not having the things that you desire. unless that's your goal. If your goal is to just, like, be on cruise control and, you know, go meet with people, install lights, whatever, and have a job, like, that's totally fine. Like, you made it, like, congrats, right? But. But if you want to build a business that's an actual business, not a job, then it's time to get out of your comfort zone. Okay? Like, all, everything that, that you want is on the other side of discomfort. So it's time to start acting like the company, like the person that you want to be. everything is outside your comfort zone. If you're wanting something that you don't yet have, it's probably because you haven't built the muscle yet. You haven't gotten outside of your comfort zone and created enough discipline to go after and get it. And when you look at, when you look at, like what, what's the differentiator between someone who's successful and someone who isn't successful, whatever that means to you. Most like the required discipline to achieve the result they desire. Okay. Most people lack the required discipline to achieve the result they desire. And being unstoppable requires a decision like you're, you're not just going to be unstoppable. Like, it's, a, it's a proactive approach versus reactive. It's running your business instead of letting your business run you. So it means doing hard things even when you don't feel like it. Okay? It means waking up at 6:00am and, and doing it even if you don't feel like it. I mean, Art. That 6am running club was really, really cool because, it was so humid in West Palm Beach. I was like, it's going to be so easy to run in Florida. I'm used to running at 5000ft elevation, go down to sea level, but even at 6am I could barely breathe because of the humidity. And I guarantee that if it wasn't for the group, if it wasn't for the community, like, we would have either quit, ran slower, walked, stopped, gone back. You know what I mean? Like, we would have made excuses like, ah, it's just one day, I'll just run a little bit slower. I'll just stop, a little sooner. Right? And that's the power of community. It can help you do hard things even when you don't feel like it, even when you're not motivated. And there's a trend. Like, I feel like the lighting industry, landscape lighting specifically, we had the COVID bump. A lot of people were doing good. And then all of a sudden it started shrinking. People are getting less leads, they're closing less deals. Like they aren't doing the same numbers they were before. But then I see this group, I see a, a trend of people that are actually not just maintaining, but growing and having record months, record years. And I look at it and it's like, well, they're simply willing to do what others aren't willing to do for longer periods of time. They're avoiding these busy activities that are in the comfort zone. They're getting outside the comfort zone, proactively finding the productive areas of their business instead of finding the busy areas of their business. So the easy way out, guys, is the Community. Because again, that 6:00am running club, like, even me, I was like, I'm tired. Like, I could just walk right now, but I'm with a group of people. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna stop, right? That's what makes me unstoppable, is the community. When I declare my goals publicly, you're my community. Like, that community holds me accountable. It makes me stronger. And that's the power of Community. We've doubled down on this, this year in Landscape Lighting Secrets. The things that we announced, which are amazing, all are doubling down on community. It's, it's building this, this, this, this pack mentality, right? and that's the power of Landscape Lighting Secrets. We hold each other accountable. And, so if you, if you kind of haven't advanced lately, maybe you feel stuck or you don't feel motivated. Like, join a community. Join Landscape Lighting Secrets. Reach out to me. Let's hop on a call and, and see if it would be a good fit. We, we don't just. We don't have a buy now link. We want to make sure it's a good fit. So we do a strategy session. We get on a call with you. Worst case, you leave with a game plan. You leave with a game plan that tells you exactly what you need to do next in your business, right? And, if you're already in Landscape Lighting Secrets and you're not taking advantage of the many resources we have and the new ones that we're just announcing, you're missing out. We have too many resources, too many people willing to help. there's just, there's just no excuse to be stuck to, to fail. Okay? That's how powerful Community is.

Find those areas in your business where you started something and then stopped

So, I had an awesome 10 days. I hope everyone else enjoyed it. Most people had really, really good feedback. I found that you either like the people in the middle, you don't usually get a lot of feedback on if someone's like, really, really mad, you know, and you guys have clients. If someone has like a really bad experience, you hear about it. And if they have a really, really good experience, you hear about it. And then in the middle, you just don't hear a lot. But, it was awesome. Everyone was super, super cool, like being vulnerable. We, we unlocked a new level for a lot of people. And my goal is to help everyone be unstoppable. So, my challenge to you, find what areas that you got maybe a little bit lazy on. Find the areas that, you know you should work on that you haven't find those areas in your business where you started something and you haven't finished. Maybe you learned something from someone on the podcast. You're like, yeah, I'm going to change and I'm going to do this. And then it got hard and then you stopped. Maybe you tried a new strategy and it got hard and you stopped. That is the opposite of unstoppable. That's called stoppable. So go do the thing that gets you outside your comfort zone and keep doing it even when it's hard. I promise you, you'll get to the other side of it and you'll feel the reward.

The Scout Pro from Emory Allen is perfect for subtle lighting applications

All right, let's see. We got to, do a little Emery on.

Huh?

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Joe Robina talks to Sarah Vandermeer about running and business

All right.

Right.

I think it's time I know what you guys all came. You just wanted to hear from Sarah, so let's just get into that. What's up, Joe? Joe Robina was at Secret Summit. yeah, let's get our music going so we can get Sarah on and I can get a drink. Welcome to the show, Ms. Sarah Vandermeer.

Hey, Ryan, thanks for having me on. I was, definitely connecting with the things you were just talking about, running and convincing yourself to run. I used to be a distance runner and so it's Definitely that, like, you spend that first 20 minutes thinking, why am I doing this to myself? And then by the end, it's like your brain is cleared. You know what you need to do. And you're completely right. Business is exactly the same way.

All I can think about is, like, when I'm like, running or dirt bikes or anything like that, where I just don't have any noise, all I can think about is business. And I'm like, how does this apply? And it's like, this is exactly like my business. Like, all the things that are good aren't easy, and I don't know why. I'm like, I want it to be easy. You know, I want. I want. I want to enjoy running. It just sucks.

Oh, yeah. There was a TED Talk I saw recently with a social scientist, and, she was saying they followed a bunch of people across a long period of time to see what were the predictors for. For success. And it wasn't intelligence. It wasn't, social awareness. It wasn't anything that you would think. It was grit. That's what it was. That was the defining factor between someone who was successful and not successful. And I like to think that, you know, even though it's hard for us to be our hundred percent every day, every day is a choice. So even if today you had an off day, every moment is a choice to start over again.

I love that. Well, and, you know, it's like, I guess I. I feel bad. The reason I'm like, I do a lot of what I do is because. And. And by no means do I have everything figured out. I have coaches, I go to masterminds. Like, I got issues, guys. But I also feel like I. When I meet a lot of these people, I'm like, no. I. When they're like, oh, man, I don't know if you understand it. It's this and this. I'm like, no, I totally understand. I remember being that exact position, and if I can just like, collapse some time and shortcut that a little bit, like, that's so healing. For me personally, I'm like, oh, man, I totally helped bring this person up instead of them sitting in there. And I truly feel bad because so many people are close to momentum. Like, they've done all the hard work. when we talk about running, for me, at least the first. For sure, the first mile is the worst. Like, I. Literally, all I can think about is just going home. Right. The second mile still is bad, but I'm, like, far enough away from home now where I'm like, okay, I'm not going back. The third mile gets a little bit easier, and then after that, like, I'm in momentum. Like, I'm, I'm. I've. I've worked through the pain. I've done the hard part of getting started and mentally committing, and now it's just 4, 5, and 6. Like, I can do that. And I feel like so many people in their business are on that cusp where they make it to mile two or three, and it's just. And they stay there because, like, I don't know, it's probably not going to get any better. I'm like, no, if just go, like, one step further, I promise you it's going to be so good. You get momentum and then it's, like, fun again. Like, you actually enjoy your life. You don't hate it. You shouldn't be running a business if you hate every single day. There has to be a point where, like, it's going to grind. You got that first mile or two, then you get to that one. So that's what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to help people get to that mile 3, 4, 5, 6, where, you know what, it's actually enjoyable and you feel, like, rewarded. Like, I'm so glad I pushed through.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. that's definitely one of the big reasons why I created Holiday Home Concepts. I was. It was like desperation being in the trenches all the time and trying. Being the only person on my team who could do estimates, who could look at a house and say, that's 145ft or whatever else. And, realizing it just wasn't scalable. If I was the person doing everything that we needed, a system that we could show other people how to do. And, and once we, we created Holiday Home Concepts, everything started clearing up. And it just made sense at that point to, to share it with others, to help them get out of their own, you know, way, in a sense, stop being that bottleneck so that they can flourish and run. And there's freedom just on the other side. So hang in there, guys. It's so close, you don't even realize how close you are. I love it.

That's great advice.

I really look up to you and how you're building your business

Well, do me a favor real quick. We've gotten to know each other over the last few years, and I just want to have you introduce yourself. But what I want to say is I really look up to you and how you're building your business, because, I mean, you came to a, landscape lighting Live. This was really cool. Like, most vendors would never do this. You bought a ticket to Landscape Lighting Live just so you could do like industry research and see like, what questions these people are asking, what problems do they have? Like, how can you solve it? What would work for this? What would work for that? I'm like, that's really cool. Like most, most people, most vendors just wouldn't do that.

Sarah Vandermeer is the CEO and founder of Holiday Home Concepts

So, but yeah, if you would introduce yourself, who is Sarah and how the heck did you get started in entrepreneurship?

Yeah. So, my name is Sarah Vandermeer. I am the CEO, and founder of Holiday Home Concepts. It is a software, for professional installers to do renderings and estimation and measurements all at the same time. but that's not where my entrepreneurial journey started. I've been in the lighting industry for over a decade and I started off, gosh, I think it was a little bit before 2015 and my husband had just been let go, laid off from his job. And so we decided to start our own service industry. You know, service business. We started off with window cleaning. And that winter I was like, no, we're not going to wait for this slowdown. We're going to hop into holiday lighting. We can do this. And we were going into it not knowing a single thing or how to deal with anything. So I would show up, to people's homes in a cute little business dress. I would have samples, I would do mock ups on Photoshop for them. And they loved it. I mean, people loved it. And so we were getting a lot of guesses. We were growing super fast. And then that's when we realized that's not a sustainable way to do things because you can only duplicate yourself so much. And, Photoshop is not easy. So we went on the long journey of creating a software to take a lot of that professionalism and make it into an easy format for other people to use. And something that, customers could really depend on. If they see that photo and that wreath looks like 60 inches, it's going to look the same way when you install it. But that's a little bit of who I am.

Very cool.

You guys do window cleaning and then turn on holiday lighting together

So it was in 2015. Do you still have the window cleaning business?

I do, yeah. so we still own our service business. A big part of that reason is because we realize that it has helped lead us in the development of, the softwares that we are creating. and so we are our own client. So not only are we constantly talking to our users, but we're Trying these things out in the field in real time to make sure that we are creating the best.

And so you guys do window cleaning, and then when it slows down, you turn on the holiday lighting with the same company.

It's a little funny you say that. so, so that first year when we started Christmas, we did that because we were told by a bunch of more veteran window cleaners at that time that it was going to slow down.

Not in Texas.

Not in Texas. So our season just gets extra, extra busy. Not only do we have all these people who are wanting services during the holidays, you know, for window cleaning or pressure washing or whatever it might be, but we're also doing all the Christmas on top of that. So I love the last quarter of the season because it is always the best, part of the year.

What do you like more, holiday lighting or window cleaning in terms of.

Oh, that's a tough one. I love Christmas because of what it brings to people. Window, cleaning. You know, people are usually either preparing their homes for sale or maybe they just want things to look nice, occasionally, like a party or something. But with Christmas, you know, there's nothing like getting done with a project. And, you know, the homeowners, kids are just getting home from school and they are just, their eyes are bugging out. They are so excited. And you can see that it's helping people to create memories in a different way. You get to be a part of that story. And so I, I love Christmas for that reason.

Yeah. That's cool.

You're serial entrepreneurs at this point. What's been the most challenging part of

so what, what's been the hardest part of, of your. The last 10 years? I mean, apparently you guys, you know, you start one business, then you get into another. Now you started another. You're serial entrepreneurs at this point. But. Yeah, what's. What's been kind of the most challenging part of it all?

I would say the most challenging part is admitting to ourselves, to myself, you know, that it's okay to let go a little bit. I am someone who is, like a very much a perfectionist. I also like to know how things are going to happen, how everything's going to play out. I, think a lot of entrepreneurs, they are dreamers, but they're not necessarily integrators. And they usually have an integrator that helps them with everything. I am an integrator who is, you know, forced myself to dream bigger. I'm not someone who's normally a risk taker or, you know, that type of person. But, I think when you have someone like Me, who's creating big things and pushing to the next level. You just have to learn to be okay with the risk, to step off the plank, you know, and. And hope that you're gonna fly. So that's definitely been the hardest thing for me, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting perspective because I guess it would be worthwhile for people to spend some time figuring out. I don't. I don't know if people know if they're a visionary or an integrator, you know, And I know that, rocket fuel or traction, one of those has, like, the test that will help you figure out, like, what you are. I know I'm a visionary. I didn't know that at one point, and I was like. Like, I was so frustrated. Like, why can't I get what I want in life? And it was because I didn't know what I wanted in life and how to get there and what risks and who's going to do it. You know, I've got these ideas, but I need an integrator. So I think having that understanding is. Is huge. And knowing, like, you know, about yourself, like, hey, I'm. I'm not, as likely to take risks as someone. So when I run into that situation, to not just be like, no, it's too risky, it's just to understand. It's like, hey, it's normal to feel like this is risky, but maybe I should do it. What would the visionary of me do? You know? And I think just having that understanding, am I a visionary? Am I an integrator? That's so liberating. did you. Did you always know you were an integrator? Did you. When did you figure out that you're like, I can, I can still run a business and not be a visionary.

So, my husband's always been the one who is the visionary in our companies for the most part. Up until we got to holiday, Home Concepts. And it was something that had been my baby. Like, I'd been thinking about it for years. Like, I knew I wanted to do it so badly, and he's been encouraging me with that. and that's great. but we. We read some books. I had no idea what an integrator was before that. And I was like, oh, that is so me. I'm that person who will look at something, and I immediately see what are the logistics. What is path abc? And then from abc, what do you have to do with those three paths to make this happen? So I'm already, I'm always thinking about things like 10 steps ahead of time. And so, I think the big thing is, you know, while I have to acknowledge that risk and I. It's almost exhausting knowing what is about to go into all these things. at the same time. When you're passionate about what you do, you get excited about that next thing and about helping people. it kind of gives you that courage to really go for it. And now, I've switched my mind from that safety mindset to what is possible, what is next, and allowing that integration part of me to help boost it a lot, because I know exactly who I need to call, what I need to put in place, who I need to hire. And it's happening so much faster than I could have imagined.

How did you get better at that? Was it you said? Was it books? Was it mentors? is it exercises you're doing every day to like, to get better at taking risk? Like, how do you. How do you do that?

Well, I think a lot of it is. I have definitely have a group of people that I talk to on a very regular basis. I belong to masterminds and things just like you. so I think talking to other people who are going through the same thing you're going through, just like, you know, the guys who are really benefiting from being part of your organization, those sounding boards are definitely so invaluable to have. But then more than that, I think that when you've gone through a lot of things in life, you start to realize that the most important thing is that you take you with you. I often think about, okay, well, what if. What if I lost everything? What if everything just collapsed? Would it have been for nothing? And the answer is no. And the reason for that is because I learned all those things. I'm taking all that with me. If I had to start over tomorrow, I would still have this wealth of knowledge that has come to me in my life. Just like if you, Ryan, had to start over tomorrow. How you would run a business tomorrow is completely different from Ryan X number of years ago when you just got started. You're not starting from zero, no matter what you take you with you, and that's what makes it okay to take that risk. And if you look at people who are very successful, they are often starting many businesses, they often start over and over again, but you have to take that first step to see where you're going to end up. And it's a leap of faith.

That's an awesome perspective. That is incredible. And ah, there is a trend. I mean, you can look at the successful people out there. They all are willing to take more risks and they know that what you just said is true. So that if it does fail, well, at least they have the knowledge of what not to do.

Sometimes it's about taking that risk, especially as entrepreneurs

They have the knowledge of, okay, I can try this or that. And so they know that like if you try 10 things, even if six of them fail, one of the four that do work is going to make up for the six that didn't. You know, And I see too many people that just aren't willing. It's like, oh, I don't know what, it doesn't matter. If we're talking about joining Landscape Lighting Secrets, investing in holiday home concepts or advertising, I don't know, it seems expensive. They feel like they can save their way to success. And I'm like, okay, Dave Ramsey's good to a point, but at some point you gotta just make more money. You know what I mean? Like, it, it just doesn't make sense to if, if you want to get to the next level, you know, and if people are comfortable and fine and that's the road they want to take, then, then they can. But most of those people aren't listening to Lighting for Profits. People who listen to Lighting for Profits are like, no, I want next level. I want something more out of my life. I want to have more impact or leave a legacy or something like that.

And let's be real. Dave Ramsey is for people who are W2 employees. You know, he helps them to, to save and build some level of security, but that doesn't, no one's ever saved their way to true health. No one. and so sometimes it's about taking that risk, especially as entrepreneurs. Yeah, as entrepreneurs, if you're not leveraging your debt in really good ways, then you probably should talk to a financial advisor. Don't, you know, just do the old W2 thing. I'm not going to buy a cup of coffee. Buy that cup of coffee and invite someone that you really admire, have a conversation with them, open up new avenues. That cup of coffee could be so much more valuable than you ever thought possible.

Love it. Yeah. Well, to your point, you know, you could save six bucks or you can invest 12. Take, take a friend or someone, right. But take a referral partner and get them coffee. So instead of saving six, you actually spend 12, you invest 12 and now you got someone hooking you up with $10,000 lighting jobs. So I like that.

Absolutely, absolutely. Strategic partnerships are always key. One of the reasons I bought a ticket to your events is not just because I want to learn about the industry, which I did, but it's also so I could get a chance to talk to you. And it was a really good thing. I learned so much sitting next to you in a car all the way to the next location. That was invaluable. And I got so much insight from you in how I want to do things and what things should look like. And, it was definitely a great event. So. Yeah, that's awesome.

You've taken a lot of risks with Holiday Home Concepts

Well, you've taken a lot of risks. you. Recently or when did you launch Holiday Home Concepts?

Oh my gosh. so this would be our fourth season now that we've been available for purchase. so it's been a little bit of time now. And we've done so many things with that software. It's changed so much, which I'm sure those of y' all who are listening, who are already users are like, is this, is this even the same thing? And it's, it's because we're, we're constantly improving. And it's exciting because the industry is changing with it too. So, like last, end of last year, we added on a permanent lighting module with animations, which looks freaking awesome.

I saw that. I was like, dang. I mean, you know that obviously the renderings are cool. I mean, like you said you were able to instead of teach someone how to do Photoshop, you guys just made it super easy to like put these mock ups on. But when I saw the animated permanent lighting, I'm like, dang, that's slick. Like, that's, that's freaking impressive. But even, even like the basic rendering.

Talk about what a good rendering can do to the experience of an estimate

Talk about that a little bit because, you know, I, I sold Christmas lights without renderings. You know, I just put on a piece of tape or whatever. But talk about what that does to the experience and, and how that can differentiate someone from being, ah, a. You know, I feel like. And Texas always gets the wrap for being the. Oh, it's the three dollar a foot guys. And, and I'm like, I never sold it for that. But, it's perfect because you're in Texas. how can that help you charge more by offering a different experience as opposed to just giving a quote.

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, Christmas is a luxury business. that means no one needs Christmas. We need food, we need water. We don't need Christmas lights in order to need food.

We need water and we need landscape lighting. You're right. Holiday lighting.

Landscape lighting, yes.

Everyone needs landscape lighting. But you're right, people do want Christmas lights.

People want Christmas lights. And I think when you have something that only lasts a few months, and is that much money, it's really an emotional sale. You're going to have a lot of competitors, including in the Dallas market. And you know, wherever you guys are, there's a lot of markets that are very flooded. And so when you have something that helps you to stand out, that helps you to look like a professional, you're immediately imbuing value to your estimates. Right? So like I always tell people, I could buy a really nice blouse, a Neiman Marcus. It might be a nice blue blouse, you know, cotton or whatever. I can buy a blue blouse at, Walmart. They might even look very similar or even identical. Why am I going to with Neiman's, Right? And that's because Neiman's has conveyed value to me. And that's what you're conveying to your client. You're not selling them a granola bar that they need, you're selling them something that they don't need, but that they would like. And so having a good rendering, showing them what they're going to get, that conveys your value. Having your wrapped vehicles conveys value. Having your guys in uniform conveys value. How you answer the phone conveys value. And when you convey that value, people are willing to pay more for a product that may look very similar to something else. Right? And that's because you're offering them something better that is more valuable and not just the material itself, but your service and you.

I like that, I like that you bring it up because it all, they all connect. Like, do you answer your phone? How fast do you answer your phone? Do you, are you professional and friendly? can you tell if someone's smiling when they're talking to you on the phone? Right. Do you show up in that RAP truck? Are you in uniform? Like all those things? It's not just one thing. So like even if you have just holiday home concepts, but you fail on all those others, like you're just not setting yourself up for success. If you do all those things and have this, it's like a no brainer. Like there's, they have no reason. Like you've knocked down all the objections. You built up so much value. Like, why would they want to waste their time getting a quote from someone else?

Yeah, I mean, all the time we. So my company charges a couple dollars more per linear foot than most of the companies around us. And we're able to get away with that with a full wait list every year because we're conveying that value over to the client. And so I can't tell you how many times, our clients are saying, well, I was going to have so and so out on Friday, but I really love what you guys have done. Let's just go ahead and do it. Right. So could they have waited till Friday or whenever? No. The other person didn't even get a shot. They didn't even get the chance to present, to do anything. My company does everything virtually. There's a lot of guys who are like, I am an in person person only. And that's okay, too. Send them something ahead a little bit, at least. Make sure your foot is in the door before someone else. And if you are impressive enough to really convey what you're trying to bring to them, they may not even go with the other guy at all, or even meet with them, for that matter.

All right, so you just kind of slipped that in there that you do everything virtually, which is amazing.

Holiday Home Concepts has VAs who live all over the world

You got, you got to tell me, like, what's that process? Like, Walk me through that.

Yeah, absolutely. So I, actually teach a class on this a little bit. but we have VAs who live all over the world. I've got one in Jalisco, Mexico. I've got another one in Pakistan. And I have another one in Calgary, Canada. And then I have, another one that is who lives locally as well. Well, and that's just for our service business. That's not for Holiday Home Concepts. But, when they are getting that phone call, there's a, a set list of things that they're asking clients. one of the things that they, they first convey, you know, your policies, you know, our prices start at that sort of thing. Just make sure that we're not dealing with the tire kickers. Right. Why, why waste time with someone who's not your client? the second thing we always ask is, what is your Christmas flavor? Do you love, classic warm white? Are you like candy cane gingerbread, or do you like the whole rainbow? Because usually, you know, clients actually do know or have a sense of what they're looking for. If you, if you just say, what colors do you want? Then you're like, you're leaving them to be creative. And they're like, I'm not sure they've already made enough decisions in their day. Take one out for them, give them a few options, and then let them tell you what they need. I always ask, them what is the item that you would like to most highlight on your property? Because sometimes it's not the house. Sometimes it's like the beautiful big oak in the front yard. You're getting a sense of their sales motivation when you have this conversation, and what's important to them and what isn't. Right. And then, of course, you know, asking them about their leads and things that, like, following up how'd you find out about us so that you can track that sort of stuff. I also training with my VAs so that they have an understanding of how things are installed too. A lot of people don't realize that design is not just something that looks pretty. It has to be profitable, it has to be practical, it has to be safe. It has to be all these things. So I don't want a VA who's designing outlining a stucco, arch. You can't do that. You cannot glue to stucco. Right. But they're not going to know that unless you teach them. so all these things are really important.

So once you get that intake call, how do you do they? Do they do the like proposal right? Then do they get their information? Do they have the client send a photo? Are you guys getting that on Google Earth? How does that work?

Usually we scout the Internet for a photo. Sometimes they'll have a photo for us ready to go. but most of the time we're able to find something online really fast. After that, we just let the client know we're going to be back to you tomorrow with a design. Our team will do a good, better, best design with some numbers. We'll, have everything laid out for them on a year one, two and three basis. And then we send them over that presentation. We let them know if you decide to accept it. Is this kind of deposit if you want to book, if you want us to hold down a date for you? just so you know, we do have a wait list that builds up really fast. We have room right now, but we may not have room in a week or two from now. but for the most part, we, I would say our acceptance rate right now is about 60%, which is huge for Christmas. The average Christmas acceptance rate is 10%. so just doing things at least even with the rendering usually brings you up to at least 30 to 40%. and then you add on professionalism and everything else after that, you can go up a little bit higher and we can be pickier about the clients that we get to accept.

What's your average ticket? So it kind of depends on what metroplex

What's your average ticket?

So it kind of depends on what area of the metroplex that we're in. but usually our average ticket is on the lower side around 1500 for like a small home. And then our larger homes are usually maybe closer to like 7 or $8,000. so average, I would say we're right around 2,500 to 3,000, depending on the home.

And when you, when you send that proposal, are you, Is it like a screen record? You're doing just a screen share and you're sending them a link where they watch a video or you meet with them on zoom or how does that work?

We don't do any of that. We just send them the presentation with a link only. It shows them their three sets of proposals. It has the terms and conditions. It's all laid out with the description. It's really simple.

When you see a presentation, it's like page one, page two, page three.

Yeah, basically, again, super simple. It's nothing crazy, nothing complicated. It's the renderings that really get people. People. that's really what we're trying to convey to them. A lot of people ask me, well, why don't you guys just do like lines like yellow is this much, blue is this much, and just do one thing. And I think it's because people are very visual. They like to see what they're going to get. They like to see the differences and you want them to miss something. So when we have that good, better, best, and we have like the beautiful Griswold option, and they see the, you know, the lower tier option, they're like, man, I really like the other one. You want them to feel that want. That's not going to happen if you just have lines all on the same page.

I'm with you. Well, that's very cool. So it's not a presentation, like I'm thinking, it's not a video. It's literally just their proposal. It's got the renderings, it shows them what it looks like with like decked out medium and hardly anything. How long does that take your. These people to put together an average proposal with the rendering?

Well, first I want to say that our landscape lighting software that is coming out at the end of the winter, that will be a full video proposal. Because landscape lighting is a very different kind of cell.

It is different.

Yeah. Christmas is just, you know, starting there.

it doesn't have to be. If you come up with a system where you can have remote closers sending out proposals at 60%. I'm, I'm all in.

That's sweet. So I'm sorry, I just forgot the first part of your question.

For what we're talking about holiday. How long does it take them to put together with the three different options and then, you know, send that out?

Yeah. If it's a simple like maybe 2k square house, that's something that's going to take maybe for me between five and ten minutes. five minutes if we're just doing like two designs. Maybe ten minutes if we're doing like three designs that are more involved. if it's like a giant estate where you have several buildings there or something of that sort, those can take a little bit longer, maybe a little bit closer to like half an hour or so. so because you're then you're designing more than one building and then kind of setting it up just a little bit differently for your pricing and things like that. but for the most part they're all pretty fast. There's actually a video that I posted not too long ago of like how fast can you go? And we did one in under a minute.

Nice. Well, that's very cool. I, I didn't know until just now that you did all your stuff virtually. I, for some reason I, I feel like you told me that because I knew you had remote people, but I, I just wasn't paying attention.

there. Occasionally we will go to a home if there's not any really good pictures and it's like a very closed off area and we just need some more imagery just to get our, you know, eyeballs on something. but for the most part, I would say about 98% of of the work we do is completely virtual.

Google Earth also does measurements so people can accurately estimate wreath sizes

Cool. And then you said it also does measurements so people aren't going to have to go and measure and figure out how much product to order and how to price does all the pricing and everything. It's not just a rendering tool.

Yeah. So it's everything all in one. So the way our system works is you're able to assign a real depth to something like a real length. Maybe it might be a piece of gutter line or something else that you can measure on Google Earth. and then it extrapolates all the measurements for you. So as you're designing, as you're drawing, it's giving you real spacing. So what you can pick between like 12 or 15 inch spacing. It's doing bulb counts for you. the size of the bulbs is in keeping with the distance it is from you in the photo. So same thing with any other type of decor, whether it be wreaths or bows or garland or anything else. It's a actually sizing appropriately for where you are. And you can add more than one depth to the same photo. So if you have something really close to you, you can have a whole other set of measurements for that. Something further back, you can do something for that and you can toggle in between them and it's going to create that list for you. There's a pricing calculator where you get to fill that out at the beginning of your season with the things you sell. So as you're adding it, it's actually not only tabulating how much length you're going to need, how many bulbs, but it's multiplying it by your pricing as well. So you have a full estimate as you're drawing, as you're doing everything. And we also, you can also add in aerial photos into holiday home concepts as well. So those areas that have like those deep cutbacks, long garden beds, all that, you can combine measurements. our big thing is making sure it can actually be accurate that things are sizing appropriately and that you're not just guessing and saying, oh, this is a small, medium or large bulb, or that spacing kind of looks. Right. Because clients do come back and say, I thought this wreath was going to be bigger or I thought there was going to be more light on this or I thought you were going to go up higher on whatever. So we really want to make things as accurate as we can. We want your client to say that looks exactly like they're under a.

So you can say like, based on the measurements, this should be like I, put in a 36 inch wreath. It looks too small. Let me do the 48 or whatever that is.

Exactly. Yeah. Which is huge. Yeah. Especially because the cost between a 60 entry to you and a 40 inch wreath is like double. Right. Especially this season after all the tariffs and taxes, you know, your average 60 inch wreath now has gone up to just under almost $500 depending on your vendor. whereas if you're buying a 48 inch wreath, you're looking at like 150 to 200. One is half the price of the other. If you show up, with what you thought was supposed to be a 48 inch wreath, you know, kind of area and it really needed a 60, who's going to pay the difference for that? And I promise you that client is going to want you to come back with the right thing. I promise. So, so Might as well get it right from the get go.

So one thing I want to ask you about is AI. How is that affecting your business

So one thing I want to ask you about is AI. You know, I. You see people saying, oh, I don't even need rendering softwares anymore. I got chat GPT. Take a picture. I did, I did this for landscape lighting on my house. You know, I took a picture, I said put in landscape lighting and it wasn't right. So I, I told it a few prompts. M. I finally got it looking pretty good. But I've seen some people doing holiday lighting. Landscape lighting. How is that affecting your business?

Yeah, so you know, it was something that we were a little bit nervous for at first just because we knew it was coming down the road. We'd been doing progressive testing already. and one of the things we realized really quickly is that AI is really bad about specificity. Even if you draw lines, you say, I want something here and there and there. it's still showing Kelvin temperatures that are way, way off. So you'll have like insanely warm lights that you're not going to be able to produce for that client. Spacings are not correct. When you ask it for things like measurements, the extrapolation that it uses, it says something like, oh, a window is like three to four feet and it applies it to the entire photo. Even if you have depth going on in that photo or there's cutbacks or areas you can't see, it only counts what it can see. So all these guys that are like trying to take the shortcut approach or add a little bit on top, unless that house is very flat face, you might want to double check those measurements because some of them are going to be very wrong. in addition to that, it doesn't take into account your profitability or safety. So one of the things I'm always teaching is that not everything you install is as profitable as the next thing. How much profit you make on installing C9s that are like front face versus upper ridge versus the ground versus wraps on trees, adding greenery. They all have different profit points and people don't think about that. So you should be designing for profit first, not just what's cute. Right. It's also adding lights in areas that are not practical. I've had two times where people have like posted photos that they did off of like ChatGPT or something. And it's a gorgeous design, but it is not doable. It is incredibly dangerous. One guy posted something and it was on this crazy pitched metal roof with, with these towers and he had the lights going up the sides of the towers all the way up to the tippy top point. And I was thinking even if you have a lift on this side, there's no way you're getting the left over here. And if that roof is slick at all, you are gone. It was his first install, so he still has to do it. I don't know how it's going to turn out. He doesn't know whether or not that roof is magnetic. it could be an aluminum roof. Right. So there's so many considerations that AI does not take into account. there was another guy that I was looking at his photo today that he had done, on chat and, and it had this gorgeous, gorgeous house with terracotta roof with all these chairs and there was lights going back on every single tile of that terracotta roof. Like lines like this.

Oh really?

Are you going to step all over that roof? Are you going to like glue, Leave glue all over the place? Like how are you going to do that? And so I don't think people take these things into account. And if you are a veteran, if you're like, okay, I kind of have a prompt that sort of of works, I'm going to draw my lines here or there. You're still offering something to the client that looks like a photo. It doesn't look like a rendering, it looks like a photo. And there's an expectation from that client of what they think you're going to be delivering. And so I think it's something you have to be very careful with, you know, for all those reasons, measurement wise and otherwise. That being said, we know that AI is only going to continue to get better. We are actually developing out, an AI module for holiday home concepts where you can take your base rendering and do an enhancement on it. That way it's not moving your lights to different places, it's not making the bulbs massive. Everything still should be where it should be. With landscape lighting, I would say it's even more relevant. Landscape lighting is an art, right? You're looking at things that need to be backlit a certain way. Dappling effects, texturing effects. there's so much that goes into the look and the feel of it that can't just be rendered. With AI, you can probably do that if you do your prompt, what, five or six times, but by then you might as well have just designed the thing, right?

Yeah. That's awesome. Well, it's cool. I mean those are great answers.

A follow up question. All of the lists that it creates can be exported to Excel

A follow up question. So are you saying like on Yours, you could say, like, this is the price I want on, like, a, one story Eve, but then this is my price for a second story. All that's like, preset in there or how does that work?

So we don't have tiered pricing based on stories. It just does it for that particular tier. But what you are able to do is you're able to distinguish your first floor from your second floor with colors or different things to what? See. See how much line you need on each level?

Okay.

so that is something you can do. And because you have the foot count and you have your bulb counts, you can change things up, that way as well. All of the lists that it creates for you can be exported to Excel. So it's also a great opportunity to add on things that kind of don't appear in a photo that you might need to consider. Maybe it's an older home and you have to hire an electrician to make a home run. Maybe you need a lift, things of that sort. And so we've made ourselves flexible enough that it'll work for you no matter what type of business you have.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. The stuff that I've seen that you're putting out is. Is awesome. It really does look like a rendering. Like you said, there's a difference between rendering and a photo. it. It looks real. Like, dude, that. That, like when you. I love it when you can't tell if it was like, that was just a picture that someone took of the actual install or if it's just a rendering. And I feel like that's what you put now.

Yeah, absolutely. so a lot of our trainings, we show before and after pictures, and you can almost count light for light things matching up exactly where you would expect them to. And that's really what you want to convey. we also, especially for our permanent lighting module, want to make sure that we work for all brands, so we have spacings for every brand available, whether it be Omni, Oleo, Jellyfish, Inception, Midlion, doesn't matter. You want it to look the way your brand does, and we have options for all those.

Cool. So that's really cool. I think it's nice to see how you're overcoming the AI challenge. There's always going to be the DIY people, you know, they're out there, but the. The business owners that understand what an investment is and how they can buy back their time by simply investing in a tool like yours is. They're gonna. They're gonna continually get it and how you guys are applying AI within it, which is really cool.

What, what do you think the next few years looks like for decor companies

What, what do you think the next few years looks like? is there going to be, You know, a lot of people don't know. They, they felt like, well, if I do permanent lighting, I'm self sabotaging my holiday lighting. There's that kind of thing to figure out. and then also within your. Within holiday, home concepts, I don't know why I can't say that today. Within that, what does that look like? I mean, you guys keep evolving, you keep adding more things, you keep adding more ability to put in more decor and things like that. But yeah, what do the next few years look like for you?

Yeah, absolutely.

What do things look like for permanent lighting versus Christmas

So, in terms of your first question about what do things look like for permanent lighting versus Christmas, Are you eating your own business? I think, first of all, I hate the word permanent lighting. I think we should all get rid of it and just call it architectural lighting. you need to convey the fact that it is an investment to people and that it does need maintenance. It's not permanent, you know, in the sense that it's going to last forever. So that first. but in terms of whether or not it's going to replace Christmas, that I don't think so. Maybe some of your C9 roof lines. But what we're seeing a lot is people who are selling permanent lighting. Their Christmas client then wants them to add on the trees and the ground and the greenery. And so now it becomes complementary to what you're already, you know, offering. You're giving them something that's a little bit more expanded, for their needs. So I don't think it's going to replace it. It's definitely a different look. but frankly, if you're not on that permanent lighting train, then you're going to get left behind. It's growing a lot, a lot of people are wanting it, so you might as well get into it. and not only that, but you're dealing with a different type of clientele for permanent lighting too. Christmas, again, very temporary, permanent lighting. People see it as an investment, so they're willing to put down a little bit more money for that conveyed value as well.

You can now add in your own custom items into holiday home concepts

and then in terms of holiday home concepts, what are we doing? How are we changing all that kind of stuff? Ah, just like a week and a half ago we added on our custom item feature. So now you're able to add in your own custom items into holiday home concepts, which is awesome. but we also realized really quickly that the items that you add are only as good as your graphics are. Right? And so we actually have a big deal coming out with a lot of different vendors. you'll be able to click on a button in probably about a week, week and a half from now that says, I need more graphics. It'll open up a page for you. You can pick which vendor you want graphics from, and they will have great graphics for you, links of where you can buy those items, dimensions for, you know, how big the item is, which is perfect because now this is opening things up for commercial sales. We've, tested out a lot of commercial graphics and it looks awesome. So, you know, rather than having to have necessarily a professional designer to put together those things for maybe an amusement park or a mall or whatever it might be, you guys are going to be able to do that and have a good sense of how big or small you need to make things and you'll know where to buy those things. Half the issue is that people will pick a graphic that they just think looks cool and they have no idea where to get the item. so there's a lot of cool things coming down the road as far as that goes. Our AI Magic button is coming out also in a few weeks. it's going to be basically an enhancement. You'll be able to select whether you have if it's just warm white, cool white, multicolor or permanent lighting. It'll do an enhancement for you and give you the option of swapping those photos out for the rendering you already did. We, also have some duplication buttons that we just push through shortcut keys, all kinds of really cool stuff. And then next year we're working on becoming, open API so that we can integrate with all the great CRMs out there, make that easier for you guys to do. And we also have a sales lead, option that we are looking to put on next year as well, where we'll be the ones helping to generate leads in different markets and then giving, those leads as part of the package already to our installers.

Love that. Well, I love it. I'm a big fan. I'm all about trying to help people buy back their time, build value, make more profit. And that's what it does. You know what I mean? Like, it helps them build that value so they can charge a premium price. When you talk about adding these custom. Not custom features, custom products.

Yeah, custom products and stuff.

You just show people what's possible. They're going to spend more. So your average ticket goes up. It does all the things. So I'm a big fan of it. I love what you're doing. I think I told you I'm your number one fan. I highly. Everyone. I highly recommend everyone. Check out Holiday Home Concepts. You're doing a deal for us on Lighting for profits too, right?

Yes, yes. so the deal that we have for you guys is called LFP 2025. LFP 2025. And that is going to get you 10 off of every single month.

Okay, sweet. So LFP 2025, that's going to save people 10, percent off every month.

Yes.

Love it. That's very cool. That's very nice of you.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, we, we love working with people like you, Ryan. And there's so much crossover, I think, in the lighting world between all the groups now. I feel like they used to be a little bit more separate and you're seeing like, that convergence come in now that she didn't see before. We're really excited. We're also really excited for, Landscape Lighting Unlimited, which again will be out, at the end of the winter. And that one, guys, it's going to knock your socks off.

Cool. So, ah, we don't have a date, we're just told end of winter. Right now. Landscape lighting, end of winter.

Software development is a lot like construction. you have your target dates and sometimes they get pushed out. And so for us, we originally were supposed to have this out in the summer. we were really excited about it, but we ended up deciding to push it out just a little bit so that we could really put everything into it that needed to be into it. I guide our developers through our entire process. How it needs to look, how it needs to feel. I can't tell you how many times I say, no, go back, fix it, do it better. This is the way it needs to look until it looks right. so that's just how we do things. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to that, but I know that that's what's needed for the landscaping world. because again, you're selling something that is of such a high value that people are going to have on their homes for such a long time and needs to be easy to use. It needs to look the right way. and it needs to have all the features that you're trying to convey to that client.

Awesome.

Sarah: I want everyone to use your product. I think it's super beneficial

So if someone wants to get a hold of you, they want to take advantage of that promo 10% off. Every month. How do they do that?

Yeah, you can just visit newnew holidayhomeconcepts. com and, when you sign up, just put your price in the promotion box.

Sweet. We already got a fan on here, Rob Goodman. Rob was at Secret Summit, and, if you guys don't know Rob, by the way, just shout out. You need to get to know Rob. He's a good time, so I'm glad he's a fan. thanks so much, Sarah. I, really, I do support you. I want everyone to use your product. I think it's super beneficial. and I want people to use it because it's going to help them close more deals. That's what I'm all about. Close more deals at a higher, profit and higher ticket, and that way you can afford to buy back your time, go from operator to owner. And it's such a. It's such a good tool to help them do that. So I'm excited for the, landscape lighting version as well. But I know a lot of people do holiday lighting, so you're missing out if you're not using it for the holiday lighting and the cool permanent lighting, because it's animated and it just looks awesome.

Yes, absolutely. And, you know, all of you out there who are listening, most of you all, look at that. Rob says he just closed 10k of holiday lighting this afternoon. That's awesome. That is awesome. Congratulations. but a lot of y' all are so lucky that you were on this entrepreneurial journey, because most, most people out there are waiting to get a 3% raise every year. There is a ceiling to whatever they will do. And you are doing something where everything you put into it, you're going to get something out of it. That hard work, it multiplies out on the other side. You don't get to do that if you're working for someone else. So take this as, the most awesome challenge. Listen to what Ryan is saying. Go on that run, even if it hurts so much, because you are on a journey that no one else gets to take around you and your friends don't get it. You're, you know, parents don't get it. Sometimes your spouses don't get it. But the people here do take advantage of that. Sorry, you're hearing my dog.

That's awesome.

Use promo code LFP 2025 to get discounted prices at Holiday Home Concepts

All right, well, thanks, Sarah. really appreciate you coming on, guys. Don't forget to reach out. Use promo code LFP 2025. Reach out to Sarah and her team at Holiday Home Concepts. Thanks, Sarah. See you guys.

Sam.