Lighting for Profits - Episode 217

Two powerhouses reunite for something big. In this episode, Kenny Kaufman and TJ Lucero from Redwoods Lighting return to share a major announcement that’s set to shape the future of the lighting industry. With over 45 years of combined experience in installation, manufacturing, and technology, they’re proving that innovation shines brightest when expertise meets vision.

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Episode Transcript

Welcome to Lighting for Profits. All light. Powered by EmeryAllen

Welcome to Lighting for Profits.

All light. All light.

All light.

Powered by EmeryAllen.

Here is your host, Ryan Lee.

Today we are going to be nerding out on all things landscape lighting

All right, all right.

All light. I'm back, baby. It's time to go. It's the number one. It's the number one landscape lighting show in Augusta, Georgia. Holy cow, guys. Got back from an epic trip to Europe. I found out we're also the number one landscape lighting show in England. That's pretty cool. Met a guy from England, and we're gonna get him on the show soon. So Marky Mark, shout out to Marky Mark. Oh, guys, we got an epic show lined up for you. If you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, you're definitely in the right place. Today we are going to be nerding out on all things landscape lighting. Here to educate, here to motivate, to help you dominate. And I, want to thank you guys so much for your support. This show has been amazing.

Thank you.

it's hard to believe that I get to do this every single week, but we get to have epic guests on and learn so much. I'm probably, I probably learned the most. I take the most notes. And so, that should tell you guys something. If I'm taking notes as the host, you should probably be taking notes, too. Today we got an epic show lined up. We got Kenny Kaufman and TJ Lucero with redwoods lighting. And, we've got some big news to. To announce. So, this is gonna be a good one. And, we're going to talk a lot of. A lot of different topics around manufacturing, trends in the industry, talking about preparing your business for exit, and some of those things. So, really, really good conversation today.

Landscape lighting business owners struggle with marketing and sales

before we have Kenny on and, tj, you know, I want to talk about something real quick. I've. I've had. I've had the opportunity to interview hundreds of landscape lighting business owners at this point, between this podcast and also just members of Landscape Lighting Secrets. When they join, I ask them a lot of the same questions, like, what have you tried? What's working? What's not? All these different things. And I've noticed there's a trend between the people that are just absolutely killing it and the people that are just, like, staying mediocre, staying average. And it's not that the people that are killing it, it's not that they're that much smarter or, any more talented. They're just actually implementing the things that they learn. And so, a few weeks ago, we had Russell Brunson on the show. And if you, if you missed that, go back and listen to that episode. Even if you already listened to it, go back and listen to it. He is the goat of marketing. but really it started me thinking. I'm like, man, what. Why are people struggling with these things? Because honestly, a landscape lighting business and growing, it is not that complicated. A lot of people make it complicated, but it really comes down to making sure you charge a premium price, making sure that you've got your sales process dialed in, making sure that you get high qualified leads, and then you need the team to be able to produce the sales, right? So then you need to, be good at recruiting, hiring and training. And, so almost everybody I talk to when they do a strategy session with me, I'm like, hey, what's your biggest obstacle? Like, what are you struggling with? And everyone says, I want more leads. but then when I start kind of like peeling back the onion, I really get into it. It's like, okay, what are you doing now? What have you tried? That's not working. People will tell me, oh, my ads don't work. Oh, my SEO guy sucks. Or, I spent $300. I boosted, an ad, spent 300 bucks, and got nothing. And the thing is, it's not that you have a marketing problem. You have a business alignment problem. Because here's the reality of the situation is the business that can afford to spend more to acquire a customer will always win. Okay, I'm going to say that again. The business that can afford to spend the most to acquire a customer will always win. And I want to explain what I mean by that and how that works. because it's. It's just like math at this point. Okay, so, for example, if I, if I'm a, landscape lighting business and my average job is $10,000, what if I, what if I could spend $3,000 to acquire a customer? And you're like, well, that's 30%, like, you're stupid. You're not gonna be able to do that. You're not gonna be able to last. that may or may not be true because you're probably going, well, I'm only gonna spend 10%, so I'm spending a thousand. Well, what happens is the people that are only spending 10%, 10%, spending that thousand dollars, they run out of money quick. They spend the thousand dollars, they don't get anything. And so they cut off that arm of marketing. You m. See, everyone wants to spend less on marketing, and people are asking for. I want cheaper leads. How much does it cost to acquire a customer? Can you lower my cost per acquisition? And I think that's the wrong question. I think the right question is, how can I make each lead worth more so that I can afford to spend more to get them, right? And that's the shift right there. That's the difference between a business that can dominate and a business that's just going to survive, right? When you have really good systems, after your marketing, when you follow up, when you upsell, when your brand, Your brand itself becomes a sales machine, that's when your lead is worth more. And you can. You can buy traffic and you can win this game.

You need to fix your marketing so that you can win in business

So think about a bucket. Everyone wants more leads. They just want more water. But you got all these holes in it, right? And it's easy for me to look at. Cause I've talked to literally hundreds of lighting business owners at this point. And it's like, okay, well, what are you doing? Tell me about your process. Tell me about your business, right? And I start to unwrap it, and it's like, okay, what, do your trucks look like? What do your vans look like? Oh, they're not wrapped. Okay, wait a minute. Just that one thing alone right there. If you're spending money on advertising and you're spending 10%, 5%, whatever it is, but you don't have a wrapped truck, and not just a wrapped truck with like, some letters on it, but like a strategically designed wrapped truck, then you're.

You're just.

You got a hole in the bucket because you're going to spend. Let's say in my case, if I spend $3,000 for a $10,000 client, you might think I'm crazy. Well, if I have a white van or a white truck, I probably am crazy. But what if I have all my trucks wrapped? Now I'm going to spend that $3,000. And now when I get into that neighborhood and someone sees me, and now all of a sudden I get another client because of it, that's two clients for 3,000. So that's only $1,500 to acquire a customer. And if I can turn that into a third client, now it's only a thousand dollars to acquire a client, okay? So this is the same stuff I see over and over and over. And it feels like no one's listening because. Because no one wraps their trucks. What are you doing on social media? There's hardly any content on social media. And I'm not saying, like, post a picture once A week. what does your website look like? Does it look like a brochure from 2008? That's not a good website. What about reviews? How many reviews do you have? How often are you getting them? What about when a lead actually comes in? Is anybody answering the phone within two rings? If not, of course your marketing doesn't work. Of course you need more leads, right? You're not ready for it to work. It's like running a, 30. Like, I don't know, I should probably do the math first. But, like, imagine running like 30 or 40 fixtures on 16 gauge wire. Okay? It's, it's. You could have the best transformer in the world. It's just not going to work. The lights are going to be dim at the end. They're not going to turn on. Right? if you have undersized wire, the lights are still dim. So that's what most people's marketing looks like. You might understand voltage drop, but you don't understand marketing because you don't have all the right things in place. So you can do a quick audit. We can do this right now. And this isn't about making you feel bad or, like, oh, poor me, whatever. This is just like, here's what you need to do to fix your marketing so that you can win in business.

If you don't have social media, you're missing out on opportunity

So are your trucks wrapped? Okay, Every truck should be a rolling billboard. when you get into a neighborhood, you should be getting more calls. Right? are you posting on social media at least daily, if not two or three times a day? Okay. Because when people Google you, and they will, just because they, you might be bragging right now. Oh, we get all of our leads on word of mouth. Cool. But that just means how many, how many leads are you missing out on? Because you don't have a good online strategy? Because even when someone's referred to you, they Google you. And if you don't have social media where they can get to know you, like you and trust you, you're missing out on opportunity. Are you building your personal brand? Okay, People buy from people. and they want to know, like, they want to know who you are. And, you know, take like, your experience with this podcast as that, like, we have our guests come on and I see this when we attend events, people come up to me, they act like they know me. We've never met. They come up to my guests, they act like they know them. They've never met. It's because they got to know their story. They got to know, like, who they are as a person. And people buy from that. Are you asking for five star reviews? if you're not, you're. This is the easy stuff, guys. are you asking for referrals? Are you asking for repeat business? Okay, I've told this story before, but the year I sold my business, this was in 20, 2019. We did $600,000 in just repeat business alone. That means that someone had already spent money with us and now they moved into their next home or their lake house or now their backyard, whatever it is. And that was a total of $600,000. You don't have that luxury. If you're in your first three years of business, you're probably not going to have $600,000 in repeat business. So this is a thing you need to build up over time. Are you putting out yard signs? Are you putting out door hangers? I'm talking on every single project because that's how you get that second, that third job out of that one time customer acquisition cost. So that's why I'll gladly spend $3,000 to acquire a customer because I know I'm confident my systems after that, that, that I'm going to get a, referral, that I'm going to get repeat business, that I'm going to get someone in, from my wrap trucks, you see, and I can turn that one lead into four customers. And now all of a sudden my customer acquisition cost goes from 3,000 down to 700. It's, it's like an unfair advantage. Okay, are you offering upgrades? Are you offering. Hey, did you know we do outdoor audio? Hey, did you know we did permanent lighting? Do you know we do Christmas lights? There's these things that will help, make the marketing dollars work for you. Okay, so again, like just imagine if you're, if your average job is $10,000. Like, how much are you willing to pay to acquire a customer? If you're like, oh, you know what, no more than 10%, then I'm going to beat you every single time. Because I'll spend, I can outspend anyone to acquire that customer because of my backend systems. Okay? most people are not answering their phone and people tell me all the time, I just talked to a guy the other day. Yeah, I think, I don't know. I just don't know if I can afford to hire an admin. Like, okay, are you not paying attention? You can't afford not to have an admin. Then admin pays for itself because as soon as they start answering the phone, as soon as they start following up as soon as they start returning phone calls. It pays for itself immediately. And I'm just telling you right now, if you are not following up, there's so many, so many opportunities out there right now. So many people just want that instant win. And I'm like the king of the one.

If you're not pricing enough, then you can't afford to advertise

Call closed. Yes, I want to close that deal on the spot, but it doesn't happen every single time. So you need to be following up with people. And I'm not talking like one or two times like you follow up until they're dead, until they tell you, I'm calling the police, stop calling me. You need to follow up. And then finally, it's probably come as no surprise, but if you're not pricing enough, if you're not charging enough, then of course you can't afford to advertise. Because if you're charging 250 bucks a light, then there's not enough margin left on there to afford to advertise. Okay? So it's really kind of crazy when you look at the pricing matrix and all this, how all this stuff interrelates. If you just raise your price now all of a sudden you can afford to invest in marketing and you can afford to spend, outspend your competition. You can do that 20, 30% because it's not gonna stay 20, 30% when you start upselling, when you start getting repeat business, when you start getting referrals, when you start getting those five star reviews, and when you start using that to build your business. And the cool thing about all this, I call it the marketing mix, is you start doing all these things, you start doing Google Ads, social media, direct mail, five star reviews, referral partners, all these things come together. It works like magic because you'll get someone that maybe, sees your yard sign, right? And that promotes them to do a, Google search. And here's where you're probably fueling. If you're not doing all the things in the marketing mix, you're probably giving your competition work because you did the yard sign, you did the easy thing, and then they go to Google and they find your competitor and they've got a funnel instead of a website. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go watch the Russell Brunson Funnel podcast, right? And they have got a funnel that converts instead of a website. And now all of a sudden, that yard sign of yours generated a lead for your competition. That's not what we want to do here. You need to get all these things together and then they start Compounding, they start multiplying upon each other. Get better branding, higher conversion rates, more reviews, more trust, faster follow up, higher close rates, higher pricing, more marketing power. Right? You can outspend your competition, referrals and repeat business. Lower cost per acquisition, they all stack upon each other. So this is super, super important that you guys do this right, because I don't want to hear someone say, oh, I tried Google Ads, they don't work. Like, that's just bs. I tried something else. What do you mean it doesn't work? This is how all local businesses have grown. I didn't invent the marketing mix. I just came up with a name for it. Okay? These things work. Just because they don't work doesn't mean they don't work. Just means they don't work the way that you are doing it.

We.

Which means you need to change the way that you're doing it.

Before you spend another dollar on ads, ask yourself is your business ready for marketing

So my challenge for you this week, before you spend another dollar on ads, you need to ask yourself the question, is your business, is it ready for marketing to work? Do you have some of these things buttoned up? Do you have. And you don't, you don't have to be perfect, right? But if you can plug up a couple of these holes, you're going to see yourself getting a higher return on investment for your marketing dollars. Do you have a brand that can, ah, really converts attention into trust. So so many people's brands are honestly just pretty weak. So you need to spend some money investing in building your brand. Are your trucks wrapped? Is your website simple and effective? Do you answer the phone quickly, like within two rings? Do you answer it every single time or most of the time? Those are completely different answers. Do you follow up like, a pro? Is your pricing strong enough to support growth? Are you leaving door hangers? Are you leaving yard? signs on every single project? Not just when you remember, not just when you have them. Are you asking for reviews? Are you asking for referrals? Are you asking for repeat business? If the answer is no to any of those, well, start there. Because otherwise you're just paying to send leads into someone else's funnel. Okay? So, I hope some of that made sense. I've got, like, all these ideas just scrambling around in my mind. I'm like, I know, I know how this works. I know how to succeed. And if I can inject some of these ideas into your brains, I know this will help you. So if you, get stuck, you get confused, reach out. Okay, we have an awesome Community inside landscape lighting secrets. So if you're already in that, then show up. We have marketing calls, we have sales calls. Kenny's going to be on the call today. He has a scaling and systems call once a month. So there's so many, it's basically impossible to fail at this point. Of course it's going to be hard in certain times. You're going to get stuck, you're going to get whatever. But show up. Show up to the. To our training, show up to our support calls, and let's make sure that you don't fail. Because it doesn't have to be that hard. Chances are you're just making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Using cheap, no name lamps off the Internet can backfire on projects

All right. Oh, you know what's fun? Getting a call from a client because their landscape lighting looks like a flickering haunted house. Halloween's coming up looks like a flickering haunted house. Yeah, that's what happens when you roll the dice with cheap, no name lamps off the Internet. Let's be real. Your projects deserve better. Your reputation deserves better. Your wallet deserves better. That's why I recommend using Emory Allen. Their LED lamps are like the Rolls Royce of lighting, except you don't have to sell a kidney to afford them. Beautiful color, built to last, and zero surprise calls from angry clients. Stop playing lamp roulette. Go with Emory Allen and keep your installs and your dignity shining bright. All you need to do is email tom g ralen. com and he will hook you up with that discounted contractor price. Just mentioned that you'd heard about him here on Lighting for Profits. Again, don't go to their website. Email tom gallen. com unless you want to pay full price. But we've, we've got you hooked up with that discounted contractor price. Email tom gallen. com.

We've got some big news coming from Redwood

all right, guys, I told you we'd have a surprise for you. We've got some big news coming from Redwood, so let's get the show going. What do you say? Let's find my, intro music. Maybe that would help. Oh, there it is. Welcome to the show. What's up, Kenny?

What's, up, T.J. hey, Ryan.

What's up?

Good to see you both. How are things going?

We've been busy.

Yeah, Very busy.

Busy.

Yeah. Well, I can imagine. I. I forgot to say I'm a little disappointed. I thought you guys were going to fly in. Is it. Is. Is there not enough snow on the ground or something? Like, what's going on?

Not quite yet. Hopefully soon.

All right, so the next time as Long as there's, like, six feet of snow, then you'll come in.

We'll come when we can pack our boards.

We went riding and then, uh, had you on the show

Okay. Well, Kenny, the first time you came on the show, you're like, no, I'm coming in. And, yeah, that's what we did. We went riding and then, had you on the show.

Yeah, that was awesome. We got to spend a couple of days with you, get to know you a little better, and, friendship brood. Since then, I wasn't able to quite keep up with you on the snowboard, but it wasn't too far off.

Yeah, I. I didn't want to make you feel bad. I was. I, was, skiing or snowboarding. Switch. The whole day just so you could feel better about yourself.

Hitting jump. Switch.

So nice of you. You're so kind.

well, I'm excited to have you guys on. We've, you know, I. You guys keep kind of teeing this up a little bit. You're like, we've got some announcements, to make some surprises. I know some of it, but I don't even think I know all of it, so I'm. I'm excited to have you on. we'll share that in just a second. But, I had the opportunity to hang out with you some more at the olp. Was it called the summer meetings? What was it called?

Yeah, that was the olp. Yeah.

Okay. The recharge. That was fun. I, you know, I got the invite, to speak there and meet, a bunch of cool new people there and stuff like that. And anytime I can just hang out with a bunch of lighting nerds that are just, you know, that love lighting and that want help growing their business like that. That's my jam right there. So that was a lot of fun. Yeah.

And, thanks for, joining, our special redwoods dinner there as well. I was glad you. You could make it and meet a bunch of, the great OLP Z's.

TJ: Top takeaway from redwoods was probably the redwoods announcement

Yeah, I actually want to, There was something I want to share about that dinner that night, but before I do, is there. Was there a top takeaway that you both had from that event?

Had, taught a couple classes at that event, but the top takeaway from that event was probably the redwoods announcement that we. That we maybe will wait and announce, that at the end.

Okay.

The one I will say is, I'm really glad you got to see that, because, remember, you and I had a conversation about the community of lighting guys and what you're building the same Thing that OLP really is built. The reason why I'm so bought in on what you're doing is because of the lighting community. The group of guys and gals that come together to build that lighting community and how strong it is. And I don't think there's an industry like it. And and you got to see kind of that OLP community, there, which is very similar to what you're building.

Yeah.

How about you, tj?

it's always great for me. It's always great to see, you know, our clients. That's. I get a kick out of seeing them grow their businesses, seeing how we can help them with our products and getting their feedback and incorporating in a lot of, a lot of cases, their feedback directly into improving our products or creating new products. so it's not any one thing in particular. Just great seeing all our, our awesome OLP clients there.

Yeah. Did you attend the Google meeting? The lady from Google was there. That was a cool session.

No, I don't think I was allowed. I think they were, they were like, which ones can Ryan go to or not?

You know, the, the actual Google representative came and did a presentation, taught us a bunch of stuff. That was a good session.

Yeah, it was pretty eye opening for me. I, I'd never had exposure to the OLP group or really any other group other than landscape lighting secrets, you know. and I, think, I think it was, I don't know, like the thing that I liked about it was to see that there are other people that like, are super passionate about this. They really do want help, they really do want to get to the next level, whatever that means for them. If they're at, you know, 500k doing everything themselves and they just want to get their first couple installers or they're already at a million and they want to get a general manager or whatever it is. But I think what I noticed was what I'm able to do is different than a franchise. Doesn't mean that the franchise bad or anything like that. It's just that I don't have like, like I, I can do whatever I want. Right? Like, I don't have like, I don't have like this agreement with other territories and stuff like that where I'm like, well, if I make this decision, how's it going to affect everyone else? And I don't know, it gave me a lot of good ideas to be like, you know what, Like I think I can grow faster and I think people are Amazed, like, how fast I'm already going by, like, m. No, no, we got, like, we got other things. We got other ideas. so, yeah, it was really cool event, and it was cool. I appreciate the invite to you to the dinner that, redwoods put on. tj. you know, the people in that room, I could tell, were, like, raving fans. They were raving fans of. Of redwoods, TJ and Kenny. And it was really a special moment when they kind of got up and was like, hey, I just want to thank Kenny for everything he's done for us and everything else. And TJ and I was like, man, that's pretty cool. I never really seen anything like that, I guess amongst like, a. A group of just, like, business owners and then like a manufacturer. Like, that was. That was a pretty special moment. and it. I guess it just speaks volumes of, like, the relationship, you know, the relationships that you're building with your clients and how you're doing it, which I do want to get into. And, like, what are you. Like, how are you doing it? Just buying them a fancy dinner, like, a couple times a year.

That would be easy. That would be very easy. no, I think, it all starts with building trust. we've been working with OLP since, 2019, first quarter. 2019 is when we first launched, our first product, or Redwoods did first three products. and them seeing us continuously improve our products, say we're going to do something, follow up on it, Keeping great communication. and every single one of our clients has my personal and Kenny's personal, cell phone numbers. And we welcome them to call us whenever they need something, whether it's on a weekend or night. We try to answer. I think all that goes a long way, in listening, you know, to them and giving good feedback and taking their feedback. just for me, I think it's really just building that trust over the years.

That was cool to see in person. I can't remember. I think I learned about redwoods from you, Kenny. I'm pretty sure it was. And, maybe TJ and I had messaged. I know I dmed a ton of people when I was starting this thing, and so there might have been a start of a conversation, whatever. But when I first really, like, understood redwoods and, like, went to the website, I'm not gonna lie, the first thing I thought was, like, is it. Do we really need another manufacturer? Like, because, like, every. Every manufacturer has, like, the same origin story. Like, I went to find A product and it didn't exist. I'm like, but that was what the other guy did. And then he built what, what needed to exist for him. So talk a little bit about that. Like what, what was new for you guys? Like what, what didn't exist there that you guys are feeling right now?

Redwoods is a lighting company started by former Apple employee Kenny Miller

Yeah.

So you know when I started Redwoods, the idea for it was I was looking, you know for. I was living in California at the time, in in the South Bay area and working for Apple. And I was looking to put some lights on the front of the house that we were renting. Which was absolutely ridiculous the rent we were paying, but that's California prices. and I went to, I remember I walked down the street to ah, Home Depot and checked out what they had and you know it was it was crap like you know, powder coated aluminum. And I didn't know much about lighting but I knew that that was not, I know about products that was not a good product. And I checked out you know, some higher end lighting, design, places around, around the valley. And there were really nice fixtures but they are so overpriced for what they were. And Kenny and I, like I said, have been friends since 2006. and I called him up, you know, with his background and I told him what I saw and he's like yeah, that's kind of what's out there. There's, there's this middle, you know, tier missing where it's quality product but not overpriced, you know. and you know so we, we started talking back and forth and I was looking, my, my son was born and I, we were, my wife and I, we were looking to potentially, potentially leave and do something different because we didn't know if we wanted to stay in California with those prices, and be house poor. even though we both had great jobs, and then we had a lot of conversations and Kenny kind of led me to start Redwoods and I talked my wife into it. luckily she has a really great job. so the first couple of years she was able to support us while I got this off the ground. And all the, in all that time Kenny and I were talking because we moved back here and I would run design ideas, you know past him. So he was having a lot of input with his, with his expertise. and it kind of led to you know, where we're at today.

Yeah, he's pretty modest but he taught himself CAD developed the first three products off of a couple of descriptions that I gave him. And, and next thing you know, we had prototypes sent to my house. It was. It was pretty awesome.

That's sweet. That's awesome.

Redwoods Landscape Lighting announced that Kenny has sold all lighting businesses

Well, Kenny, What? So we're gonna go back to the, summer meetings, the recharge event. What's the big announcement?

Yeah, so, it did get announced at the summer meeting, but it is official now. The big announcement is that I have sold all of my outdoor Lighting Perspectives franchise, all of my lighting businesses, across South Carolina, Florida, my interest in all of them. And I am going, 100%. I'm the new marketing, sales and marketing director for Redwoods Landscape Lighting. So, big, big, big news. Big, change for me. and I'm pumped to step in and really, go full time with Redwoods, which I have not been ever, and focus, on growing the business, growing the product line and really servicing our customer base. One thing that, we do really well is outside of manufacturing really helping our, clients grow. And I'm looking forward to. I'm already doing that some now, but looking forward to really developing that.

Well, I mean, first off, congratulations. I mean, exiting out of all those businesses is not an easy thing to do. it's quite the accomplishment. And congrats on, the new position with Redwoods as well. It's awesome.

Yeah, it was definitely a big decision for him. I let him know when we were talking about it that I was all for it. But obviously ultimately he needed to do what was best for him, his employees and his family. and when he. When he said he made or when he told me about the decision, I'm like, let's do this. come on, let's grow this thing. Let's, add more products. And really, you know, we have a great base. but let's. Let's take it to the next level. And that's what Kenny is definitely. And hit the team he's building here is definitely going to help Redwoods do. So I'm really, amped about it.

Yeah, to. To point at that or something you said earlier. One thing we joke about at Redwoods is we're the largest lighting manufacturer you've never heard of because, like, almost no one knows who we are. If, if we didn't search you out and want to sell you product at some point over the time, you won't know who Redwoods is. And and we. I find that kind of Funny. But coming soon, that's not going to be the case because I'm here for a reason and that's to grow the company. so big time.

You worked hard to get your businesses to the point where you could sell them

Well, on my first reaction, I, I, when you told me this, I was like, wait, what? Like, selfishly? No, I wanted, I wanted to work. Like, I feel like you did all the heart. Like you did the hardest part of getting your businesses to the point where you could sell them. And then it's like, well, no, we were going to turn each of these into like 10 million dollar things. And then we're like. And I say we. Like, I don't have any, you know, equity or anything like that, but that's when I work with my clients. That's just how I talk. Right? It's like, we were gonna do this, we're gonna do this. So I'm like, no, why would you do this?

How long were you planning on exiting these businesses

talk a little bit about that. Like, how long were you planning, on, you know, exiting these businesses?

No. So, you know, anyone who knows me, like you do, knows that I'm a planner, a goal setter, and I set things in motion well in advance. I'm a run the play kind of guy. Set the plan, run the play kind of guy. And there was no plan of selling these companies, this year, I can tell you that. but you know, circumstances happen and things happen and decisions have to be made. and luckily, because I practice what I preach, I've set the. All of my companies have been set up to be able to sell at any time. We run clean books, we run, we, we are set to sell any day, any time. And we were able to come together with a, with a, obviously what is a very large transaction quickly. because the companies are clean and they're ready to sell and, and they're run by competent managers and you know, everything, everything just set into place quickly.

People ask you regularly how much can a business sell for

I know a lot of people want to know, you know, and obviously you can share as much or as little as you want, but I would say, people ask me, I would say regularly, at least monthly, if not literally weekly, like, how much can I sell a business for? You know, what's, is the multiple by revenue? Is it profit? Like, can you share any of those numbers, like X X number of EBITDA or anything like that?

Yeah, no. yeah, I don't, I'm not weird about money. I don't care. You know, I think it's all good that everybody knows. I'm, I think it's really good that People know what's going on. So in this business, it's kind of weird. You know, you have a multi level of buyers. And what I mean by that is like if you're running a business that's 300,000 bucks and you're the talent and everything runs through you, you're answering the phones, you're doing the installs. The truth is you're not selling that company for much money. if you could sell it, you'd be lucky. because no one really wants to buy a job. they'll start a job. that person, the person that wants to buy that company, just start it themselves and run through the motion. so the next level of guys that owns a million dollar company, that's netting 200 grand a year, right? that company, if it's got some recurring revenue run well, has a sales guy, that company could probably sell to a guy that's extra, exiting his previous career, has some cash, a 401k that he can put up and maybe even get some SBA funds. That business would probably sell for three and a half times ebitda, maybe four times ebitda if it's a good business and a good market with good potential, to sell. So, so that company probably could sell for 800 grand. It might be able to sell for a million bucks if you, if you find the right buyer. If it's netting, if it's got EBITDA of 2, 250, something like that, has some assets, I could see that company selling for that. I don't think that's ridiculous. In the case of my, my business is, you know, we were doing this year, we would have done, almost six and a half million in landscape lighting. So a very large landscape lighting company. And you know, I was actually kind of lucky because five different buyers stepped in to buy. and when, when I, I thought, I always thought that I'd sell it as a single unit and that there was, you know, private equity or something like that would come in. But, but five individuals stepped up to buy, to buy the companies and you know, they were segmented in different markets. So, so that made a lot of sense to me. I ended up getting the multiple that I, that I, that I wanted at that time, which, was like 3.75 for me at that time was, and a quick sale was, was the, was the right, was the right move for me.

Redwoods opened his first business when he was 23 years old

How are you feeling now? obviously, you know, valuation's important, but how do you feel about the last, how Long. When did you start? I mean, is it, like, how long?

I opened my first business when I was 23 years old, and that was 2007. I think I just turned 23 in 2007. And at, that time, you know, I was too dumb. I was too dumb to think I could fail, which was great at that time, because it really, you know, helped me grow. and. And even in mistakes, I, you know, I just didn't think that I would ever fail. So that was. That ended up being a really good attribute. No, but, like what? I. I didn't think I was going to sell, at that, at this time. So, the one thing that was most important to me was protecting the people that helped me build this business. and so I probably could have gotten more money had I gone a different route. but I really want to protect the people that were in the business. The people helped me grow the companies. they mean a lot to me. And, I'm proud to say not one person, lost their job in the acquisition. As a matter of fact, several ended up with larger positions and. And even raises, so. So really good things ended up coming out of that acquisition.

That's awesome. I. I'm having these, like, reflections of when I sold my business. And that's like. I, remember, like, at first being like, a little excited because I'm like, man, you know, I'll get, like, some money and then I'll get, like, I'll get a new start. I can do something else. But then, like, right after it happened, I was like. I don't know if it was regret, but it was just like, man, I was just thinking about the 12 years that it took to get it to that point, and then that's the offer that I took, you know? Yeah, I was like, man, that was stupid. You know, like, I literally had just set myself up for success. I finally got it to the point where it was sellable. Now I'm basically just giving it away. Like, why would I do that? And now I fast forward, you know, five, six years, and I'm just. I'm just grateful that I was in a position to be able to do that. And even though I, you know, wish I would have gotten more or whatever else it was, it was like, that just prepared me for, like, what I'm doing now. And it. And it kind of released me and gave me freedom to, like, choose my own path, you know? And, I don't know, I feel like, similar sentiment. I Feel like that's kind of where you're at. It's like, you know what? I can. I can go on to my next chapter. Like, that was a great chapter. I'm grateful for it. But now I can go on to this new thing that I want to do.

Yeah, still. I mean, he's still doing what he. I mean, what I see. He's doing what he loves. Like, he's doing, you know, coaching with our clients. He's, helping develop new products. He's doing field testing, training. So I think maybe. I don't know, I'm speaking for him, but some of the stuff you maybe didn't love, he. He's now focused on some of those things he really likes. I don't know. What are your thoughts?

Yeah. you dream of this day, like, as a business owner. Every business owner dreams of that day when you get to sell the thing that you've built. and you have this thought of how you're going to feel. and, it's not what I thought it was going to be. You know, I had that. That moment of regret that day where you stayed in the bed and you say, what. What have I done? But it's also been so much easier for me because I pivoted into doing basically the same thing, just with, just with Redwoods. And I get to stay involved in all the groups that I've been involved in and with all the people that I've been involved in. I just actually have a little more time to maybe even, help these people a little more, you know, with their businesses. You know, I was able to take on that class, that scaling class with you, and I've really enjoyed that selfish, plug. We have one next week on Wednesday, I think, at 4pm Come and see a scaling class, next week. but you know that the transition has helped with the sale. I don't know how I'd be doing right now if I didn't have Redwoods and TJ throwing me into a bunch of projects and us having so much going on right now at Redwoods. if I had some time to think about it, I might feel a little differently, but it definitely doesn't feel like you think it does.

I think he's working more now than he did owning several businesses, for sure. Yeah.

Well, it's really cool. you know, it really is like most people's dream is like, hey, how do I. 1. I think most people just want to build their business to a point where it doesn't require them to do everything they're doing now. call it freedom. And I've got this really cheesy saying or quote that I'm trying to be known for. Make the choice to go to work because you want to, not because you have to. And it's kind of like the dumbest quote ever, but I really believe it. You know, it's like when you have that choice, you actually get to go to work because you want to, not because you have to. That is the definition of freedom. Because most people are going to work because they have to. Like, if they don't do whatever they're supposed to do this day, this week, this month, their business will collapse. And, I just, I just hope everyone can. Can experience that at some point in their career.

What, what would you say were some of the main things that helped you get there faster

What, what would you say were some of the main things that helped you get there faster? Like, if you. If you were to just to be like, hey, T.J. just kidding. I'm, not. I'm not with redwoods. I'm gonna go start another lighting business right now. What, what. What things would you do differently? Like, what. How would you start? How would you end? Like, what. What would be the process there?

Yeah, I, I would do it exactly like I've. I've done it, you know, like when going to Florida, when I, When I made that big move to Florida. you know, I'm. I'm so focused on. On getting to the end so fast. and the way you do that is building a team. So, like, if I opened a new location tomorrow, if the redwoods opportunity wasn't there, I would have. I would have moved on to one of these massive lighting, maybe. I don't know. I might have gone to Arizona or something like that, where these areas where it's just a crazy amount of lighting getting installed, and I would have started fast. I would have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in marketing, like you said earlier, to, to just obtain clients, because more clients is more clients. Every client's a new client and another client after that. And then. And then I would have built a team, a sales team and office team. I would have built to millions and millions of dollars very fast. And I wouldn't have cared if I lost money. in the beginning. I think too many people get caught up in, in. In the growth of the company, the slow growth of the company, that they forget that you can buy years of business development. You know, when I started my first company, it took me six years to develop anything that symbol the company. And I was 23 years old, I thought I knew everything. And, turned out that, that just wasn't the case. but I hired some great business coaches that said, hey, you got to change the way you think. Read some good books. that changed my trajectory. And, from there on I spent no money and no time developing businesses. I just started from the end game and then fast forwarded everything I could to get to that moment. I said, okay, I need to be a $2 million company in this market. What is the absolute fastest way to get there? Is it 400 grand in marketing? Is it hiring this business coach? Is it with, with no revenue on the books whatsoever, hiring an install team, hiring an admin, hiring a salesperson and just operating like a $2 million company, day one, losing money until you got there. And that was, that was the way I did it. And a lot of people wouldn't recommend that. but, but I was lucky enough at that stage of my career to have the capital to do it right. If you're strapped for cash and capital is not the case, then there's a different growth pattern for you.

Would you ever consider taking on an investor or something like that to get that capital

And we talk about this kind of stuff on our call, on our, scaling call on, trying to develop a custom scaling roadmap for you based on, your current circumstances, what market you're in, how much capital you have, what is your, appetite for risk and those sort of things, you know, and so just depends on the person. And you know, I meet guys every day where I'll go, hey man, you got it. You just need to go fast. And I'll meet guys that I'm like, hey, you might want to pump the brakes a little bit and let's learn a little bit about business, let's learn a little bit about lighting. so it just depends on the person, really.

Yeah, I'm with you. I think it's like, what has to be true, what has to be true for you to get to that $2 million? Well, you're probably not going to get to 2 million. Relying on referral of word and mouth. Like people, people like that strategy. It's like that's going to take you a long ass time to get to where you want to be. what do you have some ideas? I mean, I've got some ideas just around like SBA loans and investors. Would you ever consider taking on an investor or something like that to get that capital? Let's say you're just like, I don't have the money, Sure, I wish I could afford to lose 100 grand this year just so I could get my first million in sales so that now I can get repeat business and all the things that, you know, you're going to talk about, but, like, I don't have that money. How would I do that?

Yeah. So, I mean, just to give you a real life example, you had Travis on your podcast last week. Travis was a real life example of that. Travis was doing great. Travis didn't need me. Travis needed some capital and he needed someone to come in and give him some business structure and help him out with some of the big picture stuff. when Travis and I partnered, I think he had, he had just done a million bucks and, he had dreams of massive growth and didn't really know quite how to get there. And that's when Travis and I, Travis, I actually approached Travis because I, I think he's awesome and said, hey, I need you, but you also need me. And, because I wanted to move into Florida. And this year Travis will do over three and a half million dollars. I don't know if he said that on your podcast or not, but I'm not weird about money.

it's fine. Yeah, keep going.

So, so think about that. Like, he brought on a partner and, we blew up. We blew the thing up, you know, and, and that's, and that was the whole point of it sometimes. And like, I'll say this with mine and TJ's partnership, we are so different in, in how we operate that we make such great partners, together. and, and we work really well together. We've been friends for a long time, but we operate so differently that, that it just, it's like, it's just a start, ski and Hutch kind of situation where it just like works, you.

Know, balance each other out, the ying and the yang.

But yeah, going back to like, how do you obtain that capital? Bringing on a partner, if it's a strategic partner, can be great. I always give one, one, one caveat. I'll never take on a partner that doesn't work in the business. Like, I don't. There's, there's money, there's other ways to get money out there than giving percentages of your company away. Like, if you're going to take on a partner, they work in the business, they bring something to the table. Yeah, I've seen guys that, that bring on a capital investor, especially in the lighting industry. There's other industries where obviously this works, but in this industry, bringing on A partner that doesn't work. I've never seen it actually produce anything better, than, than what they've already got. but SBA is obviously a great way to, to do that. What's great about the SBA is one problem with the lighting industry is cash flow. Right? And so with the SBA, you can push out, that loan for 10 years and really absorb it within the, business so that it doesn't, really affect cash flow. A lot of standard business loans are going to be two, three, four years. and a lot of times if you're trying to use that money to grow, you just cannibalize that cash within the company. It's really hard to pay back.

Yeah, well, I'm always hesitant to, I guess advise people on making those financial investments of whether it's an SBA loan or partner, because it's like, especially if they're, if, if it's just starting up, that's one thing. But if they're like three or four years in and they're like, oh, man, I'm out of money, like m. Wait a minute. If I, If I were to just. Let's just say I'm gonna give you, like, 200 grand. Like, you got to do a better job selling me what you're going to do with this, because I feel like it's just going to extend your life like another year or two, and then you're going to run out of this money and then I'm going to be screwed. Like, there has to be a certain level of discipline around, around leadership, financial, education, these types of things, like, proven in the business, that's not. That qualifies you to take on a partner. So I do like your advice of, like, you know, if it's just money, it's probably not going to solve the problem. If you take on a strategic partner that can actually advise and fill in certain areas or do certain things to make sure that you don't find yourself in these financial hardships. I think that can be a good thing. It's worked out well for you and your partnerships.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's, I mean, at the end of my lighting, quote unquote, lighting career, that's what I was doing is just, taking on partners and trying to be an asset to them and grow their companies. And, and I, I really liked it. I, I could have done that for a long time.

Did you guys. When you. Now, now you and TJ are working together, it, it just partnerships scared the crap out of Me, you know, like, what if, what if we start working together and then all of a sudden, like, we've been friends forever and now all of a sudden something weird's gonna happen? Because I thought this and you thought another. Do you guys have like, these formalized agreements and conversations, or is it just like. I mean, I'm worried about you guys.

Yeah.

so to answer your question directly, no. maybe we should, but no, no, we don't. anyone that knows Kenny knows that as he was talking about how he could have gotten more money for his businesses, but he said, you know, he loved his employees and people that worked for him, so he set them up. And, and he's a very loyal guy. So I've. That. That's one of the things that I love about this guy is, is. And anyone that knows him, you can trust this guy. If he says something, he's gonna do it, or he's gonna die trying. we, we, we. We briefly talked about this, but we really haven't got into depth and, and talked about it, too much as far as like, you know, the friendship and then doing business. partners. I think, like, like we were saying the, the ying and the yang, very different. I'm, definitely, I think a little more strategic, more analytical. Kenny shoots more from the gut. He's more, I don't say outgoing, but out there, you know, he's, He's Kenny. So he pushes me, you know, as far as business, he pushes me a lot of times to do something uncomfortable, with a little less data and just a little more gut. and then sometimes I rein him in with some data saying, okay, well, let's put a little numbers. Number behind it or some numbers behind it. but I think what, for me, what makes this work is besides the trust, is just what we each bring to the table. and, being able to trust each other, having different skill sets.

Large companies require multiple skill sets and some space in that C suite

And what is it for you?

Going back to your comment, before, you know, the. A lot of people say that to me. I'm scared of, partnerships. And I always mention two things. One, show me a $20,000,000 company that's not a partnership. Show me a $50,000,000 company. It's not a partnership. Show me a $10,000,000 company. Large companies require multiple skill sets and some space in that C suite. It takes, you know, more than one company to make more important one person to make a great company. You can build some good companies, and obviously there's some one offs, but the majority of those companies. So what do you, you know, if you're gonna build a big company, you're gonna need to maybe be comfortable with, with gab and a partnership. A, partnership that, that, that has a skill set that you don't necessarily have, which is what TJ has. TJ has a skill set that I don't have. I can't, I can't create anything. I can visualize and I can sell something. I'm not a creator of anything. And TJ is a creator. He can take an idea and really make it. And that's how Redwoods has become what it really is. I'm the idea guy and TJ is the guy that brings it across the finish line. And that's why this partnership works. But to make any partnership work, one of the big thing is you got to be a good partner, you got to focus on being a good partner and you got to bring it every day. Partnerships don't work if you don't focus on being a good partner. The other piece is, when I'm looking at partnering with someone, one of the main things I'm looking at is emotional intelligence. Is this person emotionally intelligent? Can I tell them that they suck and they need to do a better job and they're going to look at me and be able to have a good conversation about it? and so, in all of my partnerships, I really tried to do a deep dive into that. Can we have a conflict and can we resolve the conflict? easily. But past that, just being the partner you want to have is the best advice I'd give.

I love it. Yeah, Great perspective. In fact, I just googled while you were, mentioning that Jeff Bezos now owns less than 10% of Amazon. Think about that. Yeah, less than 10%. And it's. Well, I don't know what his net worth is now. It's over 300 million. Not too bad. Or. 300 billion.

Yeah, he's doing all right. It's like, say, do you want to own 100% of something that's small, small, or would you rather own 20% of something that's large? And in those cases, you need to bring in partners or, you know, a team and give some of that equity away, to fill those skill sets that you don't have and grow, grow something big. If that's, if that's, if that's your goal.

You know, I think where, where my concern comes from. And it's kind of funny because you guys are giving me some good coaching. Right now, we try. I was. I was partners with my brother, and, dude, we didn't know what anything was around partnerships, anything. It was just like, let's just start, make some money. And like, that's. That's how it was formed. And then at some point you realize, like, no, I want to take over the world, and he doesn't. You know what I mean? And so when. When were we going to iron that out, whatever. So it's almost like saying, like, well, I. I dated one person and. And it didn't work out, so I'm never going to date again. I'm never going to find my wife or whatever, you know? And, I think that's true. True in everything. You know, I started the show by talking about advertising. Marketing. People try Google Ads and say they didn't work. It's like, no, it works. It just didn't work that time. For you this day, partnerships, they're not all going to work out gloriously and be perfect, but it, like, I. I agree with what you're saying, Kenny. Like, if you want to. If you want to go big, like, you're going to be prepared to take on a partner at some point. And, I think I just had that, like, I don't know, just like that bad experience where I was like, man, but I. But I wanted to do this and he wanted to do this, and that didn't work out. And so that means partnerships never work out. But that's just not the case. So thanks for the free coaching.

I think a couple other things that make a good partnership are mutual respect

I think a couple other things that make a good partnership, especially here, are, having mutual respect for each other. we both have, definitely, great respect for each other on, you know, I think, personal and business side. and then, being able to, you know, listen to each other. A lot of times he'll come with an idea, and I'm like, I'm not so sure about it. And usually he gets me to see his way, and not all the time, but I listen. He knows my style, that I have to think about it, you know, for a couple days and, weigh the pros and cons. But, you know, I take everything he says into account and he does the same. So, you know, that. That respect is huge. And the other thing, anyone that knows this guy, he's a worker. As, I forget who said, I don't know if it's Paul or who said you're a beast. he's a worker, and I think he sees that I'm a worker. I think A partnership doesn't work if you've got someone that's slacking and the other partner feels like, well, they're having to pick it up. And it's not equal. I think, we're both really hard workers and respect each other greatly. Yeah.

Mykonos. We did some partying in Mykonos. That's awesome.

I saw. We're gonna have to work on those dance moves a little bit, bro.

Well, obviously you weren't drinking enough watching the video, so.

That's true. I was stone cold sober at that time.

That's on you. That's not on me.

Since Kenny came on, we've been very busy expanding our product line

Well, so what can we expect? I want, I want to hear what the future of, redwoods is. What Kenny, what are you gonna do?

Well, we've been, we've been busy. We mentioned that since he's come on, we've been very busy. So, we have, you know, we've added to our product line. we're doing a very controlled rollout of our new product. so we've got, you know, we have, we have bulb fixtures for more economical, circumstances. We have in serviceable integrated fixtures. That's really how we started. we have, we have quite a few of those. We have our modular line in our almond series. really small, light, engine that makes tons of configurations. We have a full color changing line. And I would put it. And I know Kenny would, I would put that against anyone else in the industry. our accent light full, color changing. with very, very good white. You can't even tell that it's tunable white. we spent more time on getting the white right than the rgb. But our newest announcement that we. That we're now rolling out, we've started shipping is bonsai roofline. So we've gotten into a roof line, and that's just a start. We're going to add a lot more accessories to it. Kenny has brought, with his experience, when we look to do this, he added ah, a lot of input. He had a lot of input to make the product better, to make the power station, the control box better, the controller, and we've been able to execute that. And the feedback that we've received has been phenomenal so far. So him and his team have been doing a great job rolling that out.

Banzai Roofline is what we're calling it. It's a very limited launch for specific clients

Maybe you want to talk a little bit about that.

Yeah. So after selling my company, jump right into developing this new product line which we had been working On a little bit before that. But, Banzai Roofline is what we're calling it. but when we took on the project and TJ said hey, I want to get into this business. I think it's growing. and I think we need to have a solution for our clients. And I said, all right, well if we're going to do this, we're going to do it a little different. and by that I wanted to fix some problems within the system. I wanted to have a full set of colors on tracks. I wanted to have a power supply that would be Class 2 compliant. I wanted to make it less expensive if I could, but not sacrifice quality. and I wanted to make it easier to install for clients. and I think we've really achieved that with this system. Got rid of all the power injections that you've got to make. within the system. M really worked on, making the app, making the app great and working it and the controller and the ease of installation. I've been. I've really just dedicated the last 45 days of my life building training materials for our installers as well. And so, and video and all that kind of stuff and you know, all about that takes time. and so that's been really awesome. I'm pumped to start installing this product. Like you said, we have a very limited launch. more information coming out next year, for everybody else. But right now we've launched it with specific clients and we're testing it all out and making sure it's perfect.

So that'll be more of a 2026 rollout.

It'll be a 2026 rollout, yep. But we'll. It's one of those, you know, Redwoods is gonna, is never gonna just bring something to market. It needs to get all tested. It needs to be ready to go, to the point where a lot of people don't even know this, but when we bring a product in, we have a burn in process in our, in our warehouse where every box gets burnt on, every fixture gets unpacked and gets burned in for 24 to 72 hours. Stress test to make sure when it gets sent to a client that it's going to work. and so that's one of the things that we do here in office in Augusta, Georgia to make sure that our clients have exactly, the product that they bought.

Did you say it's not going to have power injections?

So there will be a Power injection based on based on where you install but you don't have to do the re injection all home runs. So you can run 75ft on on a single run and, and you don't have to keep re injecting that, that 142 wire into the system. that home run runs the next 75ft in the next 75ft. The other thing is you can inject it anywhere on that 75ft. You don't have to inject it at light one on the 75ft. You can inject it at light you know, you can inject it at light light 90 you know on that 75ft if you want to and let the power come, come backwards on it. you know you can do it anywhere. Just makes it for a way easier install. And you have no injection on the first, on the first light I've I've hardwired the first wire onto the board so that you don't have, you have 24 volts coming straight out the controller and so you don't have to worry about injecting at all on the first 75 light. So if you've got, if you've got, if you've got 75ft. Excuse me, if you only, if you're only doing a 75 foot roof line, there is no 142 wire installed at all. If you're doing 150 foot roof line which is like an average install. If you can, if you can run a 142 wire to the very end and a power brake cable in the center. There's, that's it. There's no, there's no wire in the track at all. No connections in the track, none of that on, on that system.

And I will say that you know with the with the base station that we have in controller, we're just getting started. One of the reasons why I'm so excited about this new product line is that from what I see there's a lack of innovation in the space. so we have a lot of products in in mind that will work with the space station and we're going to leverage our expertise in landscape lighting, you know, high quality brass landscape lighting in the future with, with a lot of these products. so there's a lot to come on this product line and we're just getting started.

Yeah, like you said earlier there, who needs another landscape lighting company? Well there aren't any not many landscape lighting manufacturers that, that can Dabble all across the world. Board that can do it all, across the board. And, we're going to be that company.

AI is taking over the world. Automation is changing how any business works

Well, tease us a little bit more. I want to just kind of wrap up and find out what does the next five years look like with the landscape lighting industry? AI is taking over the world. information is being dispersed faster than ever. Automation. So many things are changing how any business works. how do you guys see all that impacting the landscape lighting industry specifically?

Well, honestly, there's no better time than right now to own a landscape lighting company. I think, you know, early on in my career and even up to like 10 years ago, seven years ago, six years ago, we really had to educate the population on what we did. You know, it was hard to walk into a customer's house and explain to them what you were doing. We really had to rely on nighttime demonstrations and that book of business to show clients what we were doing. And it's really cool now where clients know exactly what you're talking about. They've seen good lighting before. Enough of it's out there where it's becoming a necessity. So, I get called out because I say things like, I'd never sell a landscape lighting installation business right now. And I just did that. But, but I would say, like, now's not the time to sell a landscape lighting business because we're, we're in that boom. We're in that boom market. even, even no matter what the market does. and I'm one of those guys that just turns a blind eye to all that stuff. Just keep moving forward and don't let any of it really bother you. Don't let, don't let that the news make business decisions for you. just keep pushing. And so I, I actually think, you know, I'm not, not a big AI guy, so I, I let tj, he's the tech guy, talk about AI. But, but I think the landscape lighting industry as a whole is just in a, in an awesome spot right now. A boom spot right now.

Yeah.

As far as AI, as, as Kitty knows, you know, the night demo will, will go away in a lot of cases it has. And as AI continues to improve those renderings that AI can do, it's not great yet. It's good. It's not great. but it will be. There will be no need for night demos. You'll be able to do like a. I know you don't like the good better, best, but, you know, have different choices there. You Go have your triple option in there and say, hey, you know, this is going to be 8,000, this is going to be 15,000, is going to be 30,000. Oh wait, you want to go with the 15,000. so that's one thing there. The lights themselves are going to become more connected as threat. Ah, and matter become more ubiquitous. You, know you've got all the major companies start having support of that now. I think you're going to have you know, all home pods, iPhones. Apple's going to turn those chips on soon, where you're going to be able to have a lot more connected products. Right now you've got different technologies, right? You've got WI Fi, you've got zigbee, you've got Bluetooth and so on. the M Matter is going to make it easy to work with multiple different vendors and control it from whatever app you so choose from. so that's that's going to be coming. I think, you know, we love our Bonsai color series where if you want color, you can do great color, a really, really, high output, great saturation. But most of the time you want white. So do you want 27, 2700 K? You want 3000 K, you want 4000 K? You can do that. We think that, that you know, is the future as well, which we have right now. We have great output, great on white, on that, in color. and the fixtures themselves are going to have more features. I think there's going to be a day, well, obviously days here where you're going to have the cobs that can do multiple colors. Those are already here, where you can do anything from say a 2700k up to a 6500k with one cob, chip, on board, ah, led. And I think eventually that the technology is coming. I've seen some early demonstrations of it where you'll be able to do optics without an optic. So you'll have a single fixture, be able to do multiple color temperatures, do multiple outputs, and it be a single fixture. That's huge for the manufacturer. Being able to get quality up, having less SKUs, it's great for the installer. you know, the power of that. If you have one fixture and it can do all these different things, you and you get costs down and the quality up. I think those are just a few of the things that are going to happen in the future.

That's sweet. Just get that done by next week. We'll be good to go.

Yeah, we're working on it.

So we're excited. and luckily early on starting a business up you're just trying to survive. But Redwoods now is at the point where we were able to bring this product line up. and we're able to invest a lot of R and D and in a lot of products that won't come out for two or three years and it's it's extremely exciting and a great place to be in finally.

Congratulations on selling your businesses and joining Redwoods. com

Well that's awesome guys. I'm excited for you. Happy for you both. Congratulations again on really both of you Kenny for for selling the businesses and joining Redwoods. congrats Kenny for getting it past the like you know just startup phase. Like I hope this thing can last and finally into the thriving phase. So I'm excited to see what happens for both of you.

Thank you.

Yeah man, thanks.

Look forward to seeing you again.

Yeah, I appreciate your guys support. I know you guys have already committed to Light It Up Expo.

are we one of the major sponsors?

One of the main dogs?

Yeah, yeah we got the good booth.

Yeah we got you guys down. We're already sending out announcements on emails and stuff like that. So did want to thank you guys for your support. I don't even remember the dates. I think it's March 4th through 6th. So if you guys want to check out Redwoods come see them at Light It Up Expo and if they want to reach out before then they want to get started now get information. What's the best way for people to get in contact with you?

Redwoods lighting. com Go to redwoodslighting. com if you're interested in becoming a ah Redwoods Pro install partner then just hit the become a pro install partner. That comes straight to me and my sales staff where well one man sales staff will, me and Will really running through those well we like to keep it that way. One thing about Redwoods is we're going to keep running lean because a company that run runs lean then then can provide that, that reduced cost to their clients. I mean that's one of the things that Redwoods runs great. We don't have this huge sales staff and this huge marketing department. All this kind of stuff where, where we're wasting all this money and having to add those things into fixtures. That's not the company we are but redwoods lighting. com become a redwoods Pro install partner. Hit the link.

Okay love it. Thanks for coming on, guys. Really appreciate you.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah, man, we'll see you.

We're adding a new Friday. If you haven't heard. Fly in. Got some exciting new stuff coming out

All right. Yes. Let's go. We're. We're adding a new Friday. Fly in. If you haven't heard. sometime in the winter. Got some exciting new stuff coming out. Landscape, lighting, secrets. So we'll fill you in later. See you guys later.