Lighting for Profits - Episode 191

This week on the show we welcome Chris Apfelstadt, whose story is one of discovery, creativity, and impact. As a father of three and a visionary lighting designer, Chris has made a career out of seeing what others overlook. In this episode, we dive into his philosophy on revealing beauty through light, the emotional connection behind every design, and how his adventurous lifestyle fuels his creativity. From coaching wrestling to chasing the perfect glow—this is a conversation about purpose, passion, and lighting the way forward.

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Episode Transcript

If you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, today is the day

Welcome to Lighting for Profits. All light. All light. All Light powered by Emory Allen. Here is your host, Ryan Lee. Oh, Light. All light. All light. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Landscape. Wait, what, what show is this? It's the number one landscape lighting show in the world. Lighting for Profits powered by Emory Allen. And I'm fired up. Guys, we got an awesome show lined up for you today. Got a good friend, a client, an industry powerhouse, Mr. Chris Appelstadt. With Light Up Columbus joining us today. I'm excited to have him on. it'll be fun to get. Get caught up with him, see how his life's going in business and all that stuff. So make sure you guys stick around. If you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, I'm telling you, today is the day. You're definitely in the right place. So congratulations, you're here and I cannot wait to dive into this episode. So, m. By the way, happy tax day. If you guys have forgotten, it might be too late now, I don't know, but you got to get your taxes in. So, and we're still trending. It's still the number one landscape lighting show in Columbus, Ohio. So that's a good feeling. Really good feeling. And, here to educate and motivate, to help you dominate. I want to thank you guys so much for your support. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am in a bit of a competition, so Chris and I are actually competing for the to the first one to get 100 reviews. I don't have a Google my business account. He does. And I think he said he's in the 80s now, which is, disappointing because I'm stuck at 75. So if you guys want to help me out and you want m to help me beat Chris, just go to Apple and give me a five star review. You can write something nice if you feel like it. but I'm looking for those five star reviews. If you've gotten value out of the show, value from our guests, please go hook a brother up. Help me beat Chris in our competition to a hundred reviews. And I don't know, we'll have to. I'll have to ask him. I can't remember if there's anything on the line. I think it's just like bragging rights and who's better at life, so.

Chris Applestott shares 13 business takeaways from his Spartan race

But anyways, guys, we're having Chris Applestott on in a few minutes with Light Up Columbus. I'm super excited to have him on. We're going to dive into his business he's got. He's done some major moves over the last couple years and so really, excited to dig into there. if you didn't know, if you weren't aware, I've been talking a lot about this Spartan race, and I finally completed my first Spartan race ever this last weekend. And I did a 10k, 25 obstacles. there was actually five. It was five obstacles that I was not strong enough to complete. But, I promise I'll stop talking about this at some point. But today is not that day because, I had so many amazing takeaways that I was thinking that apply to business. And if it's okay, I just want to share a couple of those with you. I actually put together my Spartan 10k super takeaways. 13 powerful lessons from the dirt, sweat and obstacles and how you can apply them to your entrepreneurial race. Now, I don't have enough time to go over all 13 today, but I thought, you know what, Let me just grab a couple, maybe two or three and share those with you guys. And I. And I don't know if I grabbed the best ones because they're all good, but I just grabbed a few that were kind of top of mind for me as I was going through my race and I thought could really help you out in your business. That I'm already implementing today in my business as a result of training and then finally competing in my first Spartan race. So if, that's okay, I'm going to share those, these quick tips for you to help you grow your business, and then we'll have Chris join us.

Don't expect to compete with the elite if you're not prepared

So, the first thing that I learned from the Spartan Race was don't expect to compete with the elite if you're not prepared. And here's a quick backstory. My friend Jonathan told me, hey, why don't you come, do the Spartan Race with us? It'll be good to challenge yourself, network, and do all this different stuff. Well, he told me, hey, register for the 7am start time. That way, you know, we're all going to do it at the same time and everything. I didn't realize that 7am was where the pros go. That's the elite level. Okay? And I saw after I registered for seven, it said elite. And I was like, oh, maybe that's just what they call the different times or something. I don't know. But I'm telling you, when I got there, the guys on the front row, they were Spartans. They were beasts. They were clearly ready for this. They were not winging it they elite racers were not winging it, they were strong, they were fast, they were experienced because they trained for it. And here I am in the little corral, starting corral with all these elite Spartan racers. And quite frankly I was not ready. I mean you should have seen how fast they went through some of these obstacles. There was some grip strength and upper body type monkey bar, things where you're holding on with your fingertips and stuff like that. And they could go through them in 15 seconds. And I was sitting there struggling, struggling, struggling. I still couldn't do it. So I had to go do the penalty loop. And business is a lot like this. A lot of you are expecting the world class results on part time effort. Preparation beats potential every single time. So it's up to you to earn your spot at the top. And it doesn't start on race day. A lot of y'all are expecting to show up and be able to just be, be this world class performer, be lighting designer of the year, you know, sell on the spot all the time and build this multi million dollar business without putting in the effort that it takes. Are you willing to practice? Are you willing to do what it takes to be elite? And that's the first lesson I learned through the Spartan race. The second thing I learned from the Spartan race was competition makes you better. And I'm talking whether you're behind or ahead. So maybe you're behind. And in, in the Spartan race, what happened was this. I was going up to this obstacle and again it was one that I struggled, that I failed one of my five failed obstacles. And when, when you fail an obstacle, they send you on a penalty lap. And I had to carry these like I think they were 15 pound each. Kettle bells. I don't even know the name of this stuff guys. Kettlebells. And you run around. I'm running through sagebrush. It's 7am It's a fir. Like no one's ran this penalty lap because elite racers don't run penalty laps. They go straight through the obstacle. Here I am running the penalty lap. About halfway through, I look over and I see this guy. I hear the noise like squeak. And he just like powers through. He looked like an American gladiator. Remember that old show? Just like going right through this thing. Well, so now he passes me and I was probably a couple minutes ahead of him, but all of a sudden he passes me because he went right through the obstacle. Well when I caught up to him because I was actually a little bit faster, stronger runner than Him. Guess what happened as I caught up to him. What does that mean? That means I was going faster than him. But when I approach him and I get within, like, hearing distance, he must have heard me because he turned it on. And now all of a sudden, he starts to put a put gap in between us, right? And I'm telling you, he would not have gone fast at that point if it wasn't for me behind him giving him something to compete against. Right? And at the same time, he's ahead of me. He gives me a target. Okay? So someone ahead of you gives you a target, someone behind you keeps you sharp. And that's how business is, okay? So whether you're chasing or being chased, competition always forces growth. Okay? When I saw him out there, I wanted to reel him in. I wanted to push myself a little bit faster than what I was naturally going to do if no one was there. So I want to remind you guys that competition always makes you better.

Third tip comes down to health, wealth, and relationships

And then my third tip, the third thing that I learned from the Spartan race was fire. Ready, aim. So let me explain the last. I'd say two years I've been on this journey to get better health. And there's three things that if you're looking for happiness in life that you need to get better at. It comes down to health, wealth, and relationships. And it's not that I have wealth figured out or relationships figured out. I'm struggling on all three, but I never really focused on health at all. So I decided, you know, I'm going to put some more intention behind that. And, started off just doing 20 pushups a day, and it's grown and I'm just doing more and more, more things. Well, I decided to fire before I get ready and aim. And what I mean by that is I decided to. I purchased the Spartan Races. I'm doing three this year. I purchased the airfare, I purchased the hotels. Like, I committed before I was ready. And I'm telling you, like I got in 90 days, I got a 21k coming up with 30 obstacles with 3, 000ft of elevation gain here in Utah. I am not ready, okay? But if I waited till I was ready, I might never be ready. And that's the point of fire. Ready, aim. I want you guys in business to do the same thing. Like, that decision of me, like, buying the Spartan races forced me to train and to show up. There was days that I wanted to quit. There was days where I just wanted to, like. Like, I literally was, like, running. I'm, like A quarter mile away from my house, and I just want to turn around and come home because I was tired and I had excuses, and I could have easily justified all those excuses, but the fact that I had already called my shot, I had already fired, made me want to keep. Keep moving forward. Okay? And so business is a lot like this, too. Okay? Commit before you're comfortable. Take this bold action and figure it out as you go. Too many people are. Have been taught, well, you know, you got to plan things out. You got to make sure it's right and take your time. And I'm telling you, like, the biggest risk in life is not taking any at all. Momentum comes from movement, not from planning. Okay? And I'm not saying don't plan like, there. There comes a time like, you. You should do these things. But I'm telling you, all the successful people that I follow, people that I want to be like, they're all adopting that strategy of fire. Ready. Aim. And I want to encourage you to get out there and do it. Make some commitments. Whether it's your health or your wealth or your relationships. What are you going to do to level up your business, your personal life today? Make the commitment and then take the necessary action to get ready to get aimed. And you've already made the difficult decision. So. And I promise you this will be the thing, because the fact that I had registered for these Spartans was the thing that held me accountable to continue with the process, because it would have been way easier to quit the process and had I not already committed.

Don't expect to compete with an elite if you're not prepared

Now, if you want to hear the other 10 takeaways I have, because I had 13, I'm like, how did I come up with 13? I just started, like, the. The, like, six hours after the. After I did the race, my legs were tired. I was just, like, sitting there. I'm, like, had all these thoughts rushing in. I'm just, like, taking notes on my phone. So I came up with 13. If you want to hear the other 10 takeaways, drop a comment here, Drop a comment on social media or join my free Facebook group, Landscape Lighting Secrets. maybe we'll do a training in the group if you have questions. Always want to hear how things are going in your business, but those are my top three that I'll share with you today. And I just want to encourage you guys to always, do the next thing. Do the next level. Don't expect to compete with an elite if you're not prepared. Competition makes you better. Fire. Ready, aim.

Emory Allen is at the top of their game when it comes to performance

All right, guys, want to give a shout out to Emory Allen. And you guys know this. Performance matters. This is a true statement for a lot of things, including the kind of lighting you use. So don't sell yourself short with a customer by using budget level products. Emory Allen is at the top of their game when it comes to performance. Take their VA rating, for example. It's the lowest in the industry. What does that mean? Well, efficiency. With a low volt ampere rating, you're able to drive more bulbs on a circuit with a given transformer rating. With lower quality bulbs and that same transformer, you're not going to be able to put as many lights on the same circuit. So make the switch today to Emory Allen. It's a great time to do it. All you need to do is email tom garyalen. com and, and he will hook you up with that discounted contractor pricing. Just mention that you heard about him here on Lighting for Profits and you'll get that discount. Don't go to their website unless you want to pay more money. Okay? Just email tom gmeryallen. com thank you, Emery Allen, for all your support. All.

Ryan: Let's get some music playing before our guest comes on

right, guys, now the moment you've all been waiting for. I've been waiting for this too. So let's get, the music going and, let's get our guest, Mr. Chris Applestock coming on. You guys ready? Hope so. Welcome to the show, Mr. Chris Apple style.

What's up, Ryan? Thanks for having me, man.

Oh, man, you know, I love having you on the show. We could just do this every week if you're okay with it.

Yeah, yeah, it's always fun.

You nailed the music, the everything. You had a technical error every single time

what number show is this for you? What, what podcast are we at?

Ah, that's a good question. It depends on, where you go, because I, I think it's number one. 91, maybe 192. I'm not sure.

Almost 200 episodes. You have gotten a lot better at this. I. At least the first 150. You had a technical error every single time. And I always listened for it and laughed at it and like, expected. It's almost like a, you know, a comedy bit that, you know is going to come and like, you did not stutter a word there in your intro. You nailed the music, the everything. You're. You're getting good at this, man.

Thank you. I appreciate it. the funny thing is I. I made probably two or three errors, at least that I knew about in the last 13 minutes.

Yeah.

So maybe I'm just getting better. Better at recovery, you know?

Yes, recovery. is important. My son just played his first violin recital, a solo recital. He's been playing the violin for years and just never had any concerts. And, you know, that's something we talked about. Like, hey, if you mess up, most people don't even know the song. You know, they're not very Familiar with Minuet2 by Johann Sebastian Bach. And so, just keep playing and you'll be fine. And he did great, man. It was really cool.

Such a great lesson.

Senior on Video: Recovery is a mental process as well as a physical one

Yeah, I mean, we, you know, you actually joked around right before we hit lives, like a lot of times we don't even get to the topic that we're going to talk about. Yeah, we could talk about this idea of recovery for probably two hours.

There is a, very famous wrestler from Ohio State. And, his name is Kyle Snyder, and he was the, at the time, the youngest ever Olympic champion in wrestling for the United States. Three, time national champion. And Ohio State does all kinds of crazy technology in their training, but they measure your recovery time. So, you know, you, you get stressed, your heart starts pumping faster, your blood pressure goes up, your, heart rate goes up. But he, when he gets his heart rate really high, it brings it back down to a base level faster than anyone else on the team, anyone that ever recovered, anyone they ever measured before. Just. And that's a really, really cool way to like, man, this guy is an elite athlete because he goes from super high stress right back to baseline and can, you know, perform really highly. Pretty neat.

That's awesome. Well, I actually messaged you. I think you were checking on me after the sport, after the race. I did. And then I was like this thinking, man, you, you do really well at this. it's, it's a, it's not just physical. I mean, a lot of it's physical, but a lot of it's mental. Like, there was, there was one or two obstacles that I saw in advance that I was like, I don't know if my body is ready for that. Like, yeah, like, you got it. I'm like, yeah, but like, you still need like, if you can't do 15 pull ups, you can't do 15 pull ups even if you have a good mindset. You know. But there was a couple obstacles where I was like, dang, dude, I powered through. And that was like 100 mindset. but there is some. Like, like you have, you're a wrestler. I feel like you, you have that. You rock climb, you do all this stuff. Like, I think you'd fly through one of These courses.

Well, and I told you on the phone, and it's even more clear, more obvious now, Senior on Video is that something's different about you. You know, I mean, it's clear that you are a Spartan now, Ryan, and I'm proud of you, man. Like, way to go. Way to accomplish that goal. That's really cool. A lot of people can't do that, you know, so.

Chris, congratulations on launching Landscape Lighting Secrets. I appreciate you saying that

And the next one sounds even crazier.

I'm. I'm gonna invite as many people as possible. it's probably not the. The best one to start with, because I think I had, like, 300ft of elevation cane in California, and now there's 3,000ft. Oh, dude. I got 90 days or 88 now.

So, maybe a year or two ago, you and I was part of the Landscape Lighting Secrets Legends group. You gave us a book to read, the, Gap and the Gain. And I, maybe skimmed it before we met to talk about it, so I didn't really read it, and I was just on vacation on spring break, and I. I read that book cover to cover in one day. And, I think that one of the lines that was stood out to me is that anyone who isn't embarrassed of who they were last year probably isn't learning enough. I thought that was so cool. and I'm embarrassed of who I was a year ago. but, the whole point of the book is that a lot of entrepreneurs don't focus on what they've accomplished. They are always measuring themselves against bigger and higher goals. And so they live this life of being unhappy, even though they're kicking butt relative to a lot of the world. And I have a gift that, like, I live in the game. I'm really good at it, you know, and it can also hurt me in other ways. but, man, like, just for a second, I want you to think about Landscape Lighting Secrets. And I remember being, you know, one of your early podcast guests, and you had, like, less than 10 people in the program, and, like, over the past four or five years, how many different lives you've affected and families you've helped have food on the table and people that you've helped grow, whether they were in the program for one year or they've been in here a long time, like me and some other guys. But it's awesome, dude. So congratulations. Like, it's been really, really cool. I'm feeling, grateful and looking back on our accomplishments, and, you know, you've helped me a lot with my accomplishments, too, so. I appreciate you.

You know, I. I just gotta say, I really, really appreciate you saying that. And before I read the Gap of the Gain, before, I'd read some gratitude books. And. And, you know, I'm embarrassed of myself from a year or two ago, especially five years ago. Right. I'm not. I don't know how to take compliments. Like, it's just not natural in me. And I. I'm fearful. Well, what does that mean if I'm like, yeah, I know I'm a badass, you know, like, I've helped thousands or whatever. Like. Like, But I. I really do appreciate you saying that. And I've. I've learned to measure backwards and be like, dang, dude. Like, it is incredible. I. I can't even explain most of it. I. I don't feel worthy of it. I still struggle with that type of stuff. But, dude, it's freaking awesome. And I'm just grateful that it has brought together a lot of the lighting community. Like, the fact that we get to know each other and we're friends, and, it's. It's incredible. So thank you for sticking with it and being one of the early adopters. And it would have been easier for you to be like, you're a scam dude. Like, I, am not giving you any money and I'm not going to trust you.

Well, I mean, it just is so funny because you started your program and then, like, two weeks later, I was like, man, I really wish there was some sort of program that I could find. I don't know anything about this industry, and I need to learn a lot. And, and then, like, I get a Facebook messenger prospect call from you, you know, and I was like, this is exactly what I'm looking for. And here it is. And then, you know, so much progress. And, like, I've always. When someone calls me and says, hey, Chris, what's your opinion on the program? Which, by the way, someone called in my market and, I really wanted to be like, ah, it's. It's a giant waste of money, you know, But I was honest because I. I don't want to compete against, I don't want to talk about my problems and my secrets and my issues with someone I'm directly competing with. Like, that's not exciting, you know? But I was like, I can't, Like, if it sucks, why would I still be here five years later?

Yeah.

Continuing to be a part of the program. And to me, the biggest thing that anyone who calls me and asks me for my opinion is I go great content, a lot of, a lot of different ways to learn. But the biggest takeaway for me has been the relationships, you know. And because of being part of the, your program, I got involved in AOLP and I got heard about and got involved in ILLY and got to meet people from all over the country who do what I do and share my passion. And I have this crazy network of skilled professionals that I can call, you know, pick up the phone and just call them. And most people who are starting out in the industry don't have that kind of access, you know. And then the community in the lighting world is so open and helpful and you know, willing to share. And I, any problem that I come across, someone else has dealt with it and knows how to handle it better than I could and I can call and ask them and like you helped, you know, give, give me that ability. So, yeah, I think that's enough smoke to blow up your ass.

But yeah, let's move on. Yeah, let's keep going. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so when you look at your journey and it's, gosh, it's so rewarding, you know, this as a coach, like for me to just, to have you, like, if I can just be like part of your success, even just like less than 1%, that's more rewarding than me even doing it myself. There's. You can't even explain it until you help someone. Right? But I, look, and I'm like, man, you're not new to exterior illumination, but relatively new still to landscape lighting. I mean, five years we're talking, yet here we are talking with the back to back best in show award winner at the AOLP Awards. What the heck? How does that even happen?

Ohio lighting company wins three prestigious awards during holiday lighting season

Unprecedented, I mean I remember sitting at the AOLP conference and in watching people get their awards and said that's a goal is to one day get one, you know, for our company. And it was our, we had three main goals for that year. It was to hit a million bucks, win an AOLP award and have no one work seven days a week during holiday lighting season. And we hit all three, you know, and it's been really, really cool. And my clients don't know anything about the aolp. They don't know anything about these awards, you know, but they do when they're done talking to me and I go, and I always, you know, I live in central Ohio and, and I say most people who win these awards are in West Palm beach, the Hamptons, you know, Beverly Hills. And they're lighting $30 million mansions. And we won best in show twice in a row in central Ohio, you know, and that. And then my clients kind of. They feel that pride of our local area and where we are. So that's. It's really, really neat. And I feel really honored to, you know, be voted on by my peers for the work that my guys did. it's pretty cool. Recognition.

Your goal wasn't to win best in Show. You didn't. You knew you had good work

Well, and I think it was really cool because last year, 2024, you had that intention, that goal. You told everyone about it, or you told me about it, like, I'm, bringing my team. We're going to win an award now. You didn't. Your goal wasn't to win the best in Show. I think that came as a surprise as well. You knew you had good work. You know, you knew it was, like, up there, but it was like, no, we're gonna win an award. I don't think most people live their life or their business with intention like that. this. This. Well, yeah, so talk. Talk about that for a second, because you brought your team down there. You're like, no, we're winning award. What would have happened if you didn't win an award?

Then you pick yourself back up and get back to work?

You know, there's a lot of people that submitted. I mean, that year, I know there was a ton of submissions, and.

Yeah. Ah. So our very. Our very first award was three years ago. So we've won awards three years in a row, and the first one was three years ago. And so, you know, I knew we had a cool project, but I also knew that I shot pictures of it with my iPhone. You know, I didn't have fancy, photography equipment or hadn't hired anyone to come and take pictures of our work. but I knew the work stood for itself, you know, and, so I was really excited. So that one. That one, the first one we won meant more than anything else, just because that was such a big goal for the team. And my whole crew was there, including, my guy Jacob, who I was like, you got wear whatever you want to this conference, but for the award ceremony, let's. Let's dress it up. Let's look nice. And he wore, like, a stained camel T shirt with a hole in it. And, like, now it's become a legendary thing in my company, and we all talk about it and joke about it all the time. And now Jake's, a lighting designer and, you know, out doing cool projects, and his Goal personally is to design a project that wins a award too. Yeah. Ah, it's a neat circle. And so I'm really, you know, rooting for him and watching as he gets better and better in the work that he's doing too. So. Pretty cool.

Does he have, the camel shirt still?

I, I think that he should wear that shirt. If he, if he gets one, he designs a project that wins. So, like, it seems like the right thing to do. The full circle moment.

I love that goal.

Yeah.

And then that, that shirt just gets like, framed in the office there. That's.

That would be funny. Yeah.

Last year you won best in show for your residential small lighting project

Well, so last year you went in with intention, like, dude, we're, we're winning the thing we've got. Freaking awesome project. We're definitely winning. And I don't know, I'm assuming, I don't know, maybe you thought you were going to get best in show. You won best in show, which is freaking awesome because that's really hard to do because it's all the category winners and they're all amazing. I'll pick one out of a hat type thing. So that's cool. This last year, talk about your expectations going into this last year.

Yeah. So the, the 23, 24 award, I really, like, expect that we could win our category. And I said, you know, it's possible. This is such a unique project. It's so cool. It's, it's magnificent that it could be worthy of best in Show. this year I entered in two categories and one was residential small. And I was really excited about that one because I was like, well, yeah, people, go, of course you won best in show because you have a million dollar lighting project on this crazy estate. but the residential small is less than 25 fixtures and anyone in lighting has done a project like that. And so I was like, all right, this is a new challenge. It's exciting because I want to show that you don't have to live in a mansion to get beautiful lighting. And we transformed this garden and made it, you know, made such a difference. And the client, old and only, wanted bistro lights, you know, and, I said, we can do bistro lighting, but you have a beautiful backyard. And if you, if you trust me, if you let me show you what is possible for this garden, like, it'll change how you live your life. It'll change how you interact with your home out here. And, he was skeptical. He's like, well, I have lighting. And I go, I know, it's awful. You have really bad he goes, no, no, no, you should see it. I go, I don't have to see it at night to know that it's awful. And then this idea of a, one out of ten in lighting is so much better than a zero out of ten, because a zero is darkness. You get a couple lights and it looks, wow. Now we have light when we had darkness before, but, like, the client doesn't know what's possible. And this guy, I earned his trust and he let us do it. And then, you know, we won this small residential category, which, you know, felt really, really good and I was excited about. And then the, other one that we entered, I love the project, but I'd never even considered that it would be in the running for Best in Show because I, you know, I see all the other projects, there's such good work out there, and it's just amazing work. And when they said her name, I was truly shocked. Like, I was like, wow. I did not expect that to happen. And so it was even, even more exciting and more fun. but really felt good and really proud of the. Proud of the work that we did.

It was a cool moment. I mean, you know, I've got a lot of other clients and friends and stuff there too. Just seeing. I mean, I feel like everyone that was in landscape lighting secret, like, everyone at one was like, in landscape lighting secrets. Not that I'm like a lot of lighting design or anything, but it's just, it's just a cool moment to see you winning twice. And I knew you had said, like, I really hope I can win this one for the same reason you said, like, yeah, because that is almost harder to do. Like, harder to win in a 25 light project than a thousand light project or whatever, you know, so that was cool. And then you end up winning Best in Show again.

Yeah, there was. And there's a project, from a guy in secrets, I believe, who's in Colorado. that's this super unique, like, spaceship House, you know, and I was, I, I told him that's that would get my vote for Best in Show. Like, it. It's just such a cool, different project that, you know, you'll never see or be able to do again.

Yeah.

And, you know, so I, I really was, I was not expecting it. but we'll take it and, you know, feel good about it, so.

Cool. Well, back to back, two years in a row. you gonna go for the three, Pete?

We, we got some cool projects coming up and, you know, take good pictures and see what happens. So you never know.

Nice.

The landscape lighting awards are voted on by a panel of certified outdoor lighting designers

I want to ask you about the, And congratulations, by the way. Like, that's. It's such a big deal. if. If you're. If you're just a homeowner and Dublin, Ohio, or something like that. You don't know. Even if you're a lighting designer, lighting contractor, you don't really know unless you go and stuff like that. So, that's just. It's freaking awesome.

The one last thing I'll say, and we can stop talking about the awards, but, the categories are voted on by all of the members of the aolp. And, so sometimes it could, you know, people feel like, man, this guy won because he has the best pictures, or this guy won because he's popular. And it's supposed to all be anonymous. but the best in show is a smaller panel of certified outdoor lighting designers. And, you know, all that goes out the window. And so they. They have an even higher, like, dedication to picking the best. Truly the best lighting. And so, you know, that makes that honor even more special, knowing the people who are making that decision. And, you know, they don't know. None of them knew whose work it was. They just look at it for the merit. So it's pretty cool.

maybe. Maybe in. In honor of giving competition, behind the scenes, a leg up, do you, like, do you go into a. Like, you see a project and you're like, dude, this one actually might be good. And. And when you go and do your designs, are you thinking about, like, that camera angle?

I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think I really am considering the photographs. I just, I'm considering the viewing angle of the homeowner. And so then if you take care of that, the rest will take care of itself. And then it's up to the photographer to know how to find those angles and the best shots, to capture what's real life. And that's the challenge of landscape lighting photography is. It's so hard to take a picture that looks like it looks when you're sitting there looking at it. And these cameras are amazing, but none of them are even close to the sophistication that we have in our eye. Like, the number of f stops in the human eye are, like, crazy compared to the best cameras out there. and so it's a challenge, but. So I don't think about the photographs, but I do. When it's all done and we're doing our big reveal and we're popping Champagne and sitting there and my clients crying. And this, this is like, could be award winning work, you know, so that does cross my mind at that point.

Nice.

One of our values at Light Up Columbus is that we do our work with end result

I want to go back to the story of, of this project. The guy calls for bistro lighting. I mean, I would say 90 of people would be like, okay, what, Tell me what you got in mind and. And would just provide a quote for some bistro lighting. how have you kind of grown your courage to be the director, to be the guide, and not just the order taker?

One of our values at Light Up Columbus is that we do our work with the end result in mind. And I think that's very important in lighting. You have to have the perspective of how's this going to look at night? And whenever we're training a new Christmas lighting guy to wrap a tree, tell a story about a guy who would wrap this tree in mini lights. And at the end he had like, maybe 10 extra feet of light, but he had finished. He got to the bottom of the tree. So he just balled it up and like, dip, tied it to the bottom branch, you know, and then moved on to the next tree. I'm like, dude, that looks awful at night. It's this giant ball of light.

You know, maybe it's a new design technique. I don't know.

It's. It's not. Yeah, I don't recommend it, you know, but it's. He was just doing his thing and they moved to the next tree, and he wasn't thinking about how it looks at night. And so, you know, being able to walk into a property and know and see in your mind's eye how it can look at night is a skill that, you get better and better at the more you do this and the more you practice it, you think about it and you play and you focus on it. And so when I walked into this guy's backyard who wanted bistro lights, and he had like, the crappiest Costco string that he had had up for years, right? He just wanted professional bistro lights. And I knew what it could look like. I saw right away the potential in the yard. And then it was my job to help him understand what was possible to paint that picture for him. And he had to trust me, you know? and he had, he had lighting back there. it was covered up by ferns. It was way too close to the trunk. Like, I just knew it wasn't good, and he thought it was good. And I said, man, ah, just this could be so much better. Than you can even imagine if you just trust me. Can I show you on paper at least help give you the idea of what it could look like? And he said, okay, no harm there. No big deal. I was like, I'm going to show you bistro lights. I'll show you what it costs to get new bistro lights. But my excitement about what was possible in his yard helped him get excited. And he and his wife are retired. This guy's amazing doctor. he's one of the best labor and delivery doctors in the state of Ohio. And I was like, Dr. Anderson, I would never try to tell you how to deliver a baby, but you got to trust me. Like, don't, tell me how to do your lighting. Let me show you what's possible, you know? And he was like, okay. And then, then committed. So we're going to come back and do the front yard of his house, hopefully this year, too.

Nice.

Do you ever piss people off by being brutally honest with them

Do you. Do you ever piss people off by being, like, brutally honest with them? Like, no, I know you have lighting. It's terrible.

You could have stopped that sentence in the beginning. Like, I pissed a lot of people off. it's rarely intentional, but, you know, I think that that comes with understanding, communicating with people, and having a little bit of joking, you know, like, there are certain people that I might not have said that to. Right. And so you can't. If you're. If you're in sales, if you're doing design and you're trying to get people to, you know, believe in you and be your partner, you can't always act exactly the same, you know? And, like, one of my m. Mentors is Nels Pearson, and he tells stories about some of the things he says to billionaires, you know, and it's hilarious, and it's not appropriate to repeat here. but no one ever says that, you know, no one ever says f you to a guy with billions of dollars. And so when someone does, they kind of like it and they appreciate it. And it can be, you know, if you say it the right way, but if the wrong person says it, then, you know, they get thrown out of the house and Mr. Burns releases the hounds on them, you know? so I'm sure I have pissed many people off. professionally, I'm probably better at it than I am personally.

but it's. It's, you know, walking the line between the, confidence that you've earned and, being cocky and turning someone off. So it's figuring out how far you can go. And, and, you know, having be able to back it up.

Was it. Wasn't that guy. Was it this project or another one? Wasn't that guy like, super pissed, like halfway through the project or something like that?

So that's the project. It's the other project that we won best in show for. I don't even know if we have time, but to me that's probably one of my, like.

No, I love that story.

Yeah, this is my craziest, like, lighting story, just from beginning to end, you know. And I. The first year we did landscape lighting, I had zero projects ever installed. We did the home and garden show and we got a bunch of leads and then that's our only lead source. There was no other advertising. and I worked the show and met all the other people. That's important. Part of home and garden shows is the networking. But I met a guy with a little table who was a landscape architect. And then I occasionally kept in touch with him and he had a big project on a really cool home. And he brought me in, introduced me to the client, and he said, yeah, this is my, this is the lighting guy. This guy is great. You know, you should see some of the work that he does. And he'd never seen any of my work, you know, and it felt really cool that, you know, I was introduced as an expert to someone who, you know, had even seen our work. And I walked with, the homeowners around the property and I painted this vision. And I was really excited to put a design together. And they said, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna move forward and do this, but we're going to do it in the spring after the, landscape architect, this big renovation on their house. And so the spring came and the project was delayed and over budget a little bit. And I was kind of following up, when's it time to start the lighting? And I didn't know. No contract, nothing on paper, no deposit. And then I get, ah, an email and they said, hey, we decided to go a different direction. we're going to use a landscaper to do the lighting. I was so pissed because it was a done deal. And losing a deal that you really thought was already in the bag just feels awful. It's a big loss. And I wrote a letter to them, an email and said, I'm really disappointed to hear that. I, think you're making a really big mistake. He is not a lighting designer, and your home is worthy of the best. but no hard feelings. I understand your decision. if it makes sense to get back together and talk, I'm here. And two months later, they called me and they said, chris, you were right, we messed up. This is awful.

That's crazy.

I came and I tore out all of his. Everything that they did. Two months, yeah, two months later, lit the front, lit the back, and just, very unassuming property. The front of the house, you know, looks, it looks like a, you know, couple hundred thousand dollars home. It's got a nice yard. We, didn't even light the architecture at all. We focused on the trees. The backyard slopes down, there's a massive pool, there's a tennis court. Like, it's a couple million dollar house from the back and it's a couple hundred thousand dollars house from the front. and so it was, it was so fun. just great to work on this project. It was my first time doing, downlining from a tree where I had to climb the tree. So I'd learned that from Illy and Jesse. And you were there with me. We both practiced climbing the tree together.

You made it look easy, I made it look hard. Yep.

I'm 60ft up in a tree, you know, for the first time, with my rock climbing gear, attaching down lights. And, the client, we did our first walk through, through the front. He was so happy. And then he said, we want to add the back. And there's this big pergola in the back, near the pool. And I was like, oh, this could look so great with pendant lights. And I walked with the client under the pergola, and I put my finger up on the beam, like, I want to put a light right here. We're going to put a light right here. You know, I felt like I was being super clear.

Ryan: Sometimes the happiest customers are the ones that something goes wrong

Well, my employee is doing the work, and he's drilling a hole in this steel beam to attach our first fixture. And the homeowner comes out, the husband, and he starts screaming at my guy and, you know, yelling at him. And this guy is very passionate. And I think that all people who are very successful at anything are passionate. he's got a temperature and he's saying some stuff that people don't appreciate. And my guy's like, hey, you need to call Chris. So he calls me, and I remember being in the office and he starts cussing me out, you MFer M. And he just paid $80,000 to build this pergola. And he didn't realize that we were going to drill a hole in it. And now I've ruined it. I've ruined the warranty. You know, it's. It's like the world is ending. And, like, we go from having a really happy, excited customer to now this. And, you know, I think that sometimes the happiest customers are the ones that, you know, something goes wrong and you do the right thing, you make it right. And I said, hey, this is my fault. I did not communicate this properly with you. I'm going to do whatever it takes to fix it. And he just kept calling me names, you know, because he wanted to be mad. And so I just sat there and took it, you know, and until I said, got it. Yeah, you're right. You're right. I'm, all those things. And I'm sorry. And we're gonna fix it. And we did. Right.

I think that's actually important to pause for a second. A lot of times people just want to be mad. And so you're not going to say the magic thing. You said the right thing. but you still just have to listen. Like, they just. We just need to let them be mad in these moments.

Yeah, I think that's, that's, you know, probably good advice for marriage too, there, Ryan. Yeah. but, yeah.

Are you up to this, Lindsay?

I could just tell that he. He, like, wasn't done being mad. All right, so here we go, you know, and that was just very humbling. But I remember I'm pacing around in my warehouse on my phone and, like, just. He's just giving it to me. And I was so. I'm like, this is going to be, you know, five star review. They're so happy. And now we went to the absolute opposite, where it's the most upset I've ever had a client at me. And so I found the guy that fabricated and welded the thing. I paid him to come out, bring his welder and fix it. You know, we got it all painted, looking great. And then when, we did the final reveal and walk through, the same guy was like, chris, this is effing beautiful. You know, and it was just as excited the other direction, you know, and, so this same guy with the temper, we do his holiday lighting every year. And, they have massive parties. And so this project is really cool because in the backyard, they, you know, they literally have 200 people over at their house, and everyone just has a blast. And every time they have a party, they get the cops called on them. Right. And so. And, they live in, like, a little bit older Neighborhood, you know, they're the younger people there. And so the wife was going around knocking on doors, asking neighbors to sign a noise ordinance which would allow them like, hey, you know, we're okay. It's going to be a party. It's going to be loud. Hope it's okay. And the neighbor two doors down said, I'll sign this paper, but only if you promise to not do those awful Christmas lights this year.

Oh, wow, right.

And she's like, well, what do you mean? Oh, it looks horrible. You know, it's just distracting from my window. I can't go to sleep at night, blah, blah, blah. And then he was like kind of rude to her, right? And she went home and told her husband, remember, this guy has a temper, right? And, he goes, f that guy. Call Chris. We're doubling our Christmas lights this year. And so we did, we did like a, you know, we put a 10 by 10 foot present lit up in their front yard. You know, we went big. It was just really, really cool. And then I got a referral from a guy at AOLP and, you know, was another seventy thousand dollar project. And I was showing her my portfolio, I showed her this project and she goes, I lived in the house for 30 years, you know. Yeah, it was a, it was a past client. Yeah. and, you know, once again we talked about the networking and the relationships in this industry. You know, Andrew Jackson down in Florida takes care of this lady's home in Florida and goes, yeah, I got a client who lives in central Ohio. She was the former CEO of Wendy's. And I was like, I show you your house that I already lit. You know, so it's just. Yeah. And then that's the project that, you know, that we got best in show for. So this crazy roller coaster of up and down. I got it. I don't got it. I'm so mad. I want to tell these people that they're stupid for making this decision. but I was like, all right, I compose myself, I'm professional. And they realized that they made a mistake. And, you know, in my, my prediction came true. I got to do it.

Don't ever do anything permanent to someone's home without explicitly explaining it

I got to do awesome work on beautiful professional or beautiful mature trees. it became award winning, won best in show. We doubled the Christmas lights and then we lit the former homeowner's home next. So, I mean, just a crazy, you know, so many different lessons and things that I've learned. I think the biggest lesson from the problem was that, like, don't ever do anything permanent to someone's home without explicitly explaining to them what's going to happen. Right. Like me pointing to the beam wasn't enough.

That could have. Yeah, it could have helped a lot.

And same thing if you're mounting a transformer to a wall or whatever it is that you're doing, if you have to cut a board to get under a deck, to snake a wire, like, if it's permanent, gotta talk to the homeowner, maybe even put it in writing. but you're covering yourself and you're making sure that they understand. And so we got a lot better at that moving forward. And then, you know, another lesson is that it's not. Even if someone says no, doesn't mean it's dead. You know, don't. Don't ruin the relationship. Don't burn the bridge. Mike Long says you follow up until they die or they buy. You know, and I love that saying. but just by saying I understand your choice, I'm the better choice, and you end up eventually agreeing with me. Let's talk again because we can make this look great.

That was pretty cool as gold, man. if I'll add a takeaway of mine is just the emotional maturity that it takes to scale a business. if, if someone. I've seen people respond in Facebook groups when they say, hey, Chris, we decided to go someone else. People will say, yeah, well, you know, and it's a very immature reaction saying, well, you know, I guess you're cheap and blah, blah, blah, they go at the customer, thus losing the opportunity two months later to land a potential large project. And when someone's cussing you out, I'm not that mature yet. I need to, I need, like, what are the tips? How do you keep your composure together? Because I'm like you. I like to be liked, you know, and like, I'm not used to that aggressive language. And like, how did you keep it together?

Well, first I want to tell you, I don't know if I ever told you the story, but my first ever real job out of high school, I was work for a painting company and I was selling, I was knocking on doors and selling, painting trim on people's homes. And there was a project I was really excited about is a little bit bigger. It was bigger than my average at the time. Put a bunch of work into it and I just nailed the presentation. Like, I was like, man, this is my client. And they, they were, you know, giving me all the positive signs and said that everything looked great. And then they went with someone else. On the phone. And I was, I was so angry. And this was on my own company. I was working for someone else. And I go, I tried to kind of talk and I go, no, no, we're going with these guys. I was like, why? Like, you know, help me understand. And we just felt better about it. I was like, fine, call me in two years when your house is peeling. I hung up on them. And, and they called corporate and like, the president of the company called me. it was like, you can't do that, man. So, like, you know, the maturity hasn't always existed. Like, I learned how to get better at it. And when, when the guy was yelling at me, like. And I truly believe that this is from relationships, you know, and from being, married and having girlfriends that, like somewhere along the line, you know, you know, when you mess up, right? Like, it's, it's very clear when you make a mistake, like, usually, right? And it's instinctual for us to try to defend ourselves. And usually it just digs us deeper and deeper and deeper, right? And so like somewhere I realized, and it's so applicable in relationships and in business. but when you take ownership of a mistake, then like, it takes the power away from the person that's upset, you know?

Dave Coventry says his company cares about helping people achieve their dreams

And we get a phone call today. My guys, they called to tell someone they were on their way. They left a message, they came and installed a project, a small project. And the guy called our office very upset. You know, he was, he was taking a nap. He was a night owl. He was up till 5am he was sleeping. And he wanted to be there for the project, for the installation. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I take, like ultimately that's my fault because I'm, the president of the company and we failed. Our system failed. And we're going to do whatever it takes to make sure that you're happy with the final result, you know, and then by the end of the conversation, he was like, I'm sorry, I was being an, you know, I was like, no, I get it. You were upset because you handled that really, really well. You didn't try to fight with me. And I was like, yeah, there's nothing to fight about, you know, but it's, we want to be strong and defend ourselves. You know, it's just preserving our self esteem, right? But it's so much better when, when, when you don't do that.

Dave. That's awesome, man. I, I, you know, you, you are, you have been a kind of A natural. you've got. You've got that natural ability to piss people off in you. But I do. I do love your approach to life. I mean, you're not afraid to ask questions. You're not afraid to jump in. You're not afraid to help others. and I look at some of the things that you've done in the five years I've known you. I'm, It's. It's awesome, dude. Like, you've improved your lighting designs. Like, you. You mentioned you gone. You're. You're on the board of aolp. You've gone to illy. your sales approach has been refined over and over. Your language, that's impressive. Your language has changed. Your marketing, now you're working on your business operations. you mentioned the gap in the gain. Looking back, what. What are you most proud of?

Our, another one of our values, their company, is that we care about people and their dreams. And I think that. Well, I read a book called the, Dream Manager that's called, and it changed how I approach my business. And whenever someone comes for interview, the first time we meet, you know, I give them a tour of the shop, tell them a little about a lot of moms, and I say, what's your number one dream in your life? And we have in our conference room pictures of everyone who works with us and a list of their top three dreams that they have. And my number one dream, or one of my top three, is to help as many people accomplish their dreams as possible. And so our mission, our reason for existing, is that we bring joy through light, and that's what we do for our clients. but then I want to help people accomplish their dreams, and this is my conduit to do it. And I feel the same way as a wrestling coach for my wrestlers. but this year, Ellen is our office manager. Her number one dream was to buy her her own home, her first home. And she closed on her home last year. You know, and so that's just the coolest thing. Cross off a dream, off a list. And Jacob, the guy with the Campbell T shirt, he started working for me during COVID He was delivering pizzas, and he was miserable, and he didn't have a high school diploma. He was single. he had no kind of direction or goals in life, and he was just working. He worked a thousand different jobs, but he was never happy with them. And he went from being a field technician to running a crew, to now this is five years later, he got his, ged and I brought him in the shop, I forced him to sign it up on the computer. I go, you're taking this. You're going to get this knocked out because you're a smart dude and there's no reason you shouldn't have this done. he proposed to his fiance or his now wife on a company trip to Mexico.

That's so cool.

I took everyone on, and then I couldn't go because I got Covid. you know, so he's married, and he just got approved this week for, for a mortgage for his first house, too, you know, and so seeing people grow and develop and get better is. That's my answer to your question. It's the coolest thing that's happened. that's what I'm most proud of so far. And there's a lot of things that I'm proud of, but I put that at the top of the list.

It's awesome, man. I mean, I've been to your office, your shop there, and I see it, you know, like, you're working on building this. You're building your dream, you know, like, you are really, truly. You've got it labeled there. Like, people see it every day. You guys are working on feels like a real organization that people want to be a part of instead of, like, back in the day, Chris, like, I don't know, we might make some money putting some lights on some houses, you know?

Yeah. I mean, I always talk about when we have our company party at the end of the year, the holiday season, and I always want to give some perspective of the game that we've had. And I go, hey, you know, four years ago, we had no office. No office manager. I had Christmas lights shoved and throw three storage units across town. We didn't own any vehicles. we didn't have a brand, we didn't have any wraps. we didn't have a good website. you know, none of that. We hadn't done any landscape lighting, you know, and, like, that's what I identify as now. You know, none of this stuff existed. Like, look how far we've come. And then it's even more exciting to go. We've made it this far, and we still suck at so many things, you know, Like, I'm. I'm trying to get a little better every time. And, like, I joke about, you know, in the Landscape lighting Secrets Facebook group, your program is awesome. And most of us have only ever, like, implemented a little tiny piece of it, you know, And I'M slow.

The hardest part is implementing, right? That's the fun part

I'm starting to piss me off too. I'm glad we, I'm glad you brought this up. Like, come on, what do we got to do? How can I help you guys implement more?

Like, maybe we're just stubborn. I don't know. I speak for myself that, like, I'm just, I'm slow to change, right? And that's, you know, my, my wife and I struggle because, man, she's, she is just so good at planning, implementing, and figuring out how things can be better and making them better. And she's amazing at it. She just started her, her new business and she's already, like, rushing it, you know, and, and it takes me forever, but I've been in the program for years. And just last year I got my vans wrapped for the first time. You know, it's like, day one, like, this is the best investment you can do. And today we got a phone call from someone that just saw, just saw our vans on the highway and called us. That's the first time that, like, I know for sure, you know, and, you know, the, the pre sale videos, you know, day one, like in the content world, hey, here's what you should do is how you're going to stand out. Took me four freaking years to, like, finally do it. But when we did it, we did awesome, you know, and the clients love it and it's made a difference, you know, and so all you can do is keep putting it out there and bringing the horses to the water. You know, we all got to keep, keep drinking as much as we can. but, like, there's still so much stuff that we can do to get better. You know, Becca and I just hired a va. and I know that you've talked about that you've had Angela on, and, you know, Angela and JC have that organization and, I have no idea what to do with, like, her so far. You know, Becca's given her tons of stuff to do and we're supposed to be sharing her, and I don't think I've given her a task yet. but I'm gonna figure it out.

I've got a list for you.

I'll take. You know, I want the list. And I'm like, well, my office manager can do that, you know, so I'm. It's. It's all new, but there's so many things, like, one step at a time, slowly moving forward and, and a little bit improvement and then looking back and appreciating how far we've come. So it's. Yeah, it's fun.

Yeah. I mean, you know, you. You do give yourself a hard time, and I give you. Give you a hard time, too. Like, how long does it take to, like, wrap your van or whatever? But the. The reality is that's all of us. Like, the hardest part is implementing. It's easy to buy a course. It's easy to hire a coach. It's easy to go to a conference. That's. That's the fun part. Right? The hard part is actually getting this done. So, you know, it was funny the first time I met Becca. I. I was actually a little bit nervous because, you, know, like, sometimes when I meet spouses, like, some. Some. Some of them love me, some of them hate me, you know, because it's like, oh, you're the guy, you know? But, she's like, yeah, I've been telling Chris to read these books. I've been telling him to do this stuff for years. And now you're.

You.

You're the guy. You're the guy. Now he'll listen to you. And I was like, oh, crap, is she gonna hate me? She's like, no, I love it. I've been told him to do this stuff for years. He's finally taking action, getting traction. And I think that's. That's key is like, don't get so discouraged. Like, oh, what's wrong with me? Why is it taking me four years? It's like, it's the. It's the 1% better. Like, what are you doing today to just be a little bit better than yesterday? And it's. It's so true. Like, you're hard on yourself. Like, oh, what? We still suck at all these things, but you do have that good mentality to measure backwards, to look at the gain and be like, damn, dude, what if. What if you didn't do all those little things that you did do five years ago? You'd still be in the same spot that you were, and that's the worst nightmare possible.

Yeah. I mean, what can we do? What's possible in this industry? And watching guys. Other guys do it is so motivating and fun, you know, and, getting to be around Greg Matthews and Billy Coggins and Mike Long and, you, know, Andy, watch what he's building and, you know, see what Darren has built. And it's, you know, it's so motivating and to see what's possible. And I think that, like, we're still. We're getting started as an Industry, you know, like, we, we look at these guys have been doing it for 30 years and what they've accomplished and the kind of work that they've done. But then what about in 30 years from now? You know, they're like, wow, Ryan Lee led a cabal of, like, amazing people that built a private equity lighting company and sold it to, Warren Buffett for billions of dollars. You know, we, like, it's, there's so much as possible. And we were just on the, on the beginning of it and it's fun.

It's so awesome, man. That's how I feel too. Obviously, if you've been in the industry 30 years, you're like, it's over, it's oversaturated. You know, like all that stuff, it's like, man, once you get a peek behind the curtains to see how new this is still and how immature it is, and even the stuff that you shared today, dude, is next level. Like, the way you're handling your business, your process with your clients and the maturity that you have and just all that stuff is stuff that the majority of business owners, and not just in the lighting industry, but most home service business owners are just not handling well. So, dude, I'm fired up. I'm excited to see what you guys do. You guys are.

You're doing so many good things over there, man. It's freaking awesome

You're doing so many good things over there, man. Not that you care, but I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of Light Up Columbus.

I do care.

I've got to meet a lot, you know, most of them. And it's cool, man. I love that Jacob has ascended and he's, he's doing things that he probably didn't know he was capable of and that you didn't know he was capable of. It's freaking awesome, man.

A lot of last year sucked for us at Light of Columbus

So I guess I wanna, I feel like I, I should say this. Like, it's a lot of, we're talking about a lot of positive stuff and neat accomplishments and awards. A lot of last year sucked for us at Light of Columbus. We, had goals, right, that we wanted to accomplish. And, we had a tough year. We needed holiday, lighting to save us, and it doesn't feel good. And the Holly lighting is profitable, stressful in a short period of time. Anyone who knows it knows what I'm talking about. but it doesn't feel good to go, man. We have to do this much holiday lighting or we're not going to be profitable. We did all this work, all this landscape lighting. We were losing money. That sucks, man. Yeah. It sucks to, bust your ass and your employees make more money than you. It doesn't feel good. And I'm like, man, I'm not good at this stuff. And we hired our first salesperson, and it was disaster. And I thought it was a great fit, a very experienced sales guy. And there's a lot of reasons, and I learned a lot. but it costs so much time and so much money and investment into him. And then there's the opportunity, cost of. Right. All these leads that we spend a lot of money on. Now you go get them. And we're not closing deals. I'm like, ah.

And it just put us in this big hole where, like, we're spending more money than we're making every week and we're going into debt. And, like, man, it was hard, and it did not feel good. Oh, and by the way, my wife just sold her business the year before, and I'm the sole breadwinner in my household for the first time ever.

No more dual income.

Yeah, I got this baller CEO wife for this amazing company, and, there wasn't much pressure on me ever financially. And I'm not a real financially motivated guy. But all of a sudden, like, oh, is your son going to be able to go to that school next year? We got to sell a car. Things aren't looking good right now. So I'm not trying to bring everything down, but I wanted to not put on this face of, yeah, we keep going up and up and up because last year we had to scratch and claw in Q4 to stay even and to not shrink as a company, and that sucked. And so we learned a lot. we hired from within a salesperson who I didn't even realize wanted the job, but there was just a miscommunication and misunderstanding that he wanted the job the whole time, and he's doing great. And we had to make some really hard changes. We parted ways with a guy who I care about so much and has worked with me for over a decade. And you and I talked about this a lot privately. And, like, we weren't. He was no longer able to serve, the role that he wanted to do. And I sat in my conference room and cried, you know, and when we. When we parted ways and it sucked, but, we put someone else in a similar type of position, and things are going good, you know? And so it's. It's hard, man. It was a hard year in a lot of ways. but I still am excited and optimistic and we still got all this good stuff.

but I thought it. I think I just felt like I wasn't being fair. If we hang up podcast and don't say, hey, man, you know, 24 was. Was rough in a lot of ways.

No, I. Dude, I'm actually, I'm glad you shared because, like, that's. That's the real shit. Like, that's the stuff that's like, dude, like, business is hard. everyone that doesn't have a business wants to start their own business. They have no idea how much it's going to test you. Emotionally, physically, spiritually, all the stuff, you know. And, I guess, like, was that necessary? Like, was it necessary for you to. To get to that point of, like, crap, dude, I'm making. I'm not making. Not only am I making less than my team, like, my employees, but I'm not making anything. Like, was that necessary? Did you have to go through those failures and hiring the wrong salesperson and then eventually getting to that point where you had to, let go your. Your lead guy after 10 years? And, you know, I. I talk. I've heard it said a lot, and now I'm saying it a lot because I've learned it through the hard way, too. What got you here won't get you there.

Yeah.

Does that. Does it feel like that?

I don't know if it was necessary or not. I mean, it sure would have been nice if it wasn't like that. It was easier.

Yeah.

it. It just is what happened. And,

Chris, what would you have done to prevent the Spartan challenge

Well, let me ask you this, because maybe it wasn't necessary, and yes, it would have been easier to not, but what would you have done to prevent it? Looking back.

There was just a lot of circumstances and then choices that led to the challenges. You know, it's not one thing. I, don't know that I could have prevented it easily. the hard year, you know.

Yeah.

A lot of times, converge at the same time and, you know, maybe.

Not that necessary path. Like the exact choices you made. Of course, you could have said. Said things, done things differently. But I guess the point that I want to make is it is necessary. M. You know, maybe not specific things, but, like, you can't experience that joy that you guys are creating if you don't know the opposite. Like, you. You have to go through those phases of, like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even know if I'm the right guy. Should I quit? Should I give up? Because that when you hit that low, you Appreciate that high so much more and it gives you something to shoot for. It gives you that perspective, it gives you the gap, it gives you the gain. and that, that's what I think is necessary, is for people to be able to go through those challenges, go through those obstacles and, and learn who they are, learn what not to do in order to find out what to do.

Yeah. I mean, it's just funny that in our industry, you know, the comparison to light and darkness, you know, there, there is no light without darkness. Ah, the light is seen the brightest in the darkest room. You know, a small match can light up a whole auditorium. You know, and, it is part of life and it's part of business, it's part of sports. overcoming obstacles and continuing and getting better. And if you don't, you don't know what it takes to keep going, then you're not going to get very far. to be in a position that's hard and to fight through feels so much better. When you have this success. Just like someone that, you know, was given everything and never had to work hard, they don't appreciate the, the spoils of wealth as much as someone that had to claw and fight every second. And you know you're going to feel even better at your 3,000 foot elevation Spartan race than you did.

I used to, like, when people would say like, oh, if, if you had a rich dad and he gave you everything, you wouldn't appreciate, I'm like, I don't care. I don't want to appreciate it. I just want it, you know?

Yeah.

but literally, like going through my Spartan, it was like mile five or six, like toward the end, I was hurting, I was tired, but I had the, the biggest smile on my face. It was literally almost a spiritual moment. I had so much gratitude in my life that God even allowed me to like, be there and to finish and not get hurt and just for, to have an amazing family and all this stuff. And that's just a short analogy because same thing, man. I could go on and on and on about the struggles in my personal life and my business. And it's, it's not just what you see on social media, obviously. So I, am glad you shared it because those, those are the things that just make us so much better. And now, you know, you have a comparison. Be like, okay, do I want to be Chris full of light, bringing joy, or do I want to be Chris of darkness?

Chris of darkness, Yeah. I mean, I love lighting, but I don't know that I love enough to, like, pay to light other people's homes over and over. You know, like, that was hard. I also want to earn a living and, be successful and like a lot of people, and I'll put it into Americans, a lot of Americans don't really understand what it takes to be on, what it feels like to be really uncomfortable. they don't put themselves in positions where they can be really uncomfortable. And that could be physically, emotionally, mentally. and that's the whole sport of wrestling, is you practice every day and you push yourself past the limit, the. Where you don't think you can go on, and then, you figure out how to do it. And you know that you can reach down. Because when you're on the mat and you're fighting with someone for six, seven minutes and, you know, you have no energy left at the very, very end, and you still have to get that one take down to win, like, you know, you can dig a little deeper, farther than you ever thought you could. And, you know, I think that's the best analogy for life and business. And if you've never been in a hard place, then when you get there, you know, you just quit. You just walk away. You don't even know what you're capable of, you know? And so, that's why, you know, you. You talked about health being important, man. You see so many successful entrepreneurs that at some point they hit that stage in their life, like, they really care about health, and now they start pushing themselves physically, too, you know, and it's like, many people have never been in a fight, you know, like, you've never been punched in the face. Like, it, it really hurts to get punched right in the face. And so, so, so many people have never been in the fight. but once you have been, you're like, all right, I'm still here. Like, I could get punched in the face again and be okay, you know? And so, yeah, I got. I got punched in the face a lot last year. but we. We are better for it. And I'm excited for what's going to happen. And, you know, I definitely. It. I felt like I was being unfair. Just, feeling sunshine and raised my. On this podcast. Ryan, so sorry for bringing it down.

I'm probably guilty of that because I'm an optimist, you know, Like, I could easily. I should probably talk about more the negative and the real stuff, but like, at the same time, like, there's. There's too many people complaining and bringing it down. In the news and all this stuff. So I'm like, no, dude. Like, I just choose to be happy, you know? And, But I'm glad you brought it up.

I love the analogy of darkness and light. I say it to all my clients

And I had this thought, had a memory of, our families sharing a moment in the Timpanoga's cave a few years ago. And that was. That was a cool experience because I. I had been. Last time I was up there, I was like, 8 or something. And when you get in that cave and then they turn off all the lights, that's the darkest dark. I. That's the last time I remember being in that. That dark. There was literally zero light. Crazy.

My daughter still talks about that cave, but her memory is the fact that this lady was talking about how these walls have been here for tens of thousands of years and that she watched her daddy lick it. She thought it was the funniest thing in the world. She still talks about, like, dad, why did you lick that wall? I'm not sure, but it just seemed like the right thing to do right now.

You have a piece of Timpanoga's with you forever.

Yeah. Yeah. That was really cool. That was a fun experience.

The ultimate souvenir. And I don't think it said, don't lick the walls, did it?

I forget, like, the exact circumstances, but it was. It was pretty funny.

I love the analogy of darkness and light. You honestly, you can't have darkness without the absence of light. I mean, look at everything around you. Like, as soon as you turn on the light, the darkness is gone. So.

Yeah. And I don't know if I, You know, my favorite lighting quote of all time was Eleco. one of the best lighting designers in the world. She let the, Athens Olympic opening ceremony. So she's stage lighting, and she lit the Acropolis. And my wife and I got to have dinner with her in Greece, which is so cool last year. but the first time I saw her speak, she said that light without shadows is like music without pauses. I was like, oh, man, that is so good. And I say it to all my clients. Say it in every meeting I have. You've probably heard me say it 20 times.

I love it.

You know, I love music and, you know. Yeah. You can light this tree with one giant spotlight. You could light the whole tree, but it would be really ugly and flat, and there'd be no shadows, no depth, no beauty in nature that, like, is the yin and the yang, the light and the darkness, the success and the failure, the strength and the weaknesses that we all Have. And so, yeah, it's beautiful. And man, what a fun industry that we get to be a part of every day. And it's such a good analogy for business and life and relationships and whatever else you're involved in.

All right, I love it. I know we're going long. I still have two more questions for you, so you got it. When you get home, you got to thank Becca for me, thank the kids for, letting me steal you.

What's something that you wish you would have done sooner

But I got to ask you this last, question, last 1.5 questions. What's something that you wish you would have done sooner?

I mean there's a lot, there's a lot of answers. I, might. Hey, Dan, I'm gonna switch angles here. I'm gonna look at this camera I'm showing off.

Oh, wow. No, I see you. That was it.

My, my neighbor at my, my warehouse here has a podcast studio. So this is my first time. Usually I'm just on my computer in my basement, so I wanted to show that off. I wish I had, I wish I had had a salesperson start with me sooner.

Okay.

I, wish I had office manager sooner. I'll put that as first priority because I suck at a lot of that stuff. And I lost so many opportunities in, in business because I didn't send the paperwork or I didn't do what I said I was going to do, or I missed a phone call, you know, and so she really allowed me to focus on more important things to keep growing, you know? I wish I'd started landscape lighting sooner. I spent all these years doing Christmas lights and like I could have been a guy who's been doing this for 20. I've been doing Christmas lights for over 20 years, Ryan. You know, isn't that crazy?

It is.

And where could, where would I be now if I had know, been one of the old school hallogen dudes like 20 years ago, learning this industry? Ah, like I would have. No one else would have had a chance at all in, in central Ohio. Literally just crushed them. but you know, I also sucked at running the Christmas lighting company and so I didn't know I sucked. I probably would have sucked at landscape lighting then too. I wasn't ready, so it worked out. Right. But you know, yeah, opinion. Those are my answers.

Yeah. Great insights.

Chris Columbus says he wants to start a podcast about adoption

and then finally, you mentioned you're at a podcast studio next to you. We were talking before and I, want to challenge you to declare to the world to help, help us hold you accountable. You Want to start a podcast?

I do. I am going to start a podcast. And, this is a whole other conversation. But adoption, is really important to me. And it's. It's been, you know, on my mind to write a book, to do a TED Talk and do a podcast about adoption. And I was adopted. Got a great story, got a great relationship with my biological parents, and then my wife and I adopted our third child. And so the difference between, you know, it's how adoption has changed in 40 years. That's my main concept. And I want to interview people, people about their stories, because adoption stories are so everyone's different. Everyone's can be very emotional, can be very, very positive, can be very negative. but there's a lot of drama and a lot of stories to tell, and I want to do a podcast where, you know, we talk adoption and tell stories. And I have this beautiful studio with these professional cameras and professional audio, and it's across the wall for me. And so when I figured out this was here, I'm like, man, I don't have an excuse anymore. So I, I accept your challenge, and I will give myself until the end of May to have my first episode in the can. How's that sound?

Dude, I love that.

Yeah.

Wow. This is the new Chris Applestock or Apple stock or Chris.

I will stay here however you want to say it. And another thing in the book, the gap in the game that I loved was, was they talk about, you know, having a daily accountability. Another, thing I wish I had done sooner was to start recording, measuring, our KPIs, our key performance indicators in my company. And we have a weekly meeting now, and we look at all these different M areas in sales and marketing, in production, and how we do, you know, and if it's. If it's not recorded and it doesn't matter, there's a much better quote than that is in that book that I can't think of. But so now I picked my list of six things that I'm measuring for myself every single day. And I put a whiteboard in my bathroom above the sink. You know, I'm sure my wife is not happy about this whiteboard in the bathroom, but I have a little list. And then I made Billy Coggins my partner, and I'm text them to show them did I do well or not on each of these six things every single day. And so it's been. Been fun so far.

Yeah. that's awesome. Is it what gets measured gets improved? Is it something like that?

Yeah, something like that. I feel like that's even. It's even said better. But that's the basic concept, that if you don't, if you don't record it, then it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

You know, and so. And we were having some problems with guys being late and not really doing a good job clocking in and out. And that's where we're trying to get more and more data so we can make better informed decisions. And so I just started writing the board. You get a check if you're on time, you get an X if you're not, you know, and. And it's crazy how much faster that got. Better, once the whole company can see, man, you were late three days out of five that week. Like, come on, dude, what's your problem? Yeah, so it's. I was like, well, if that works for my guys, it can work for me too.

Well, that's awesome, man. I appreciate you, Sharon. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna help hold you accountable, and I'm gonna help you start this podcast. Anything you need from me, of course, you know, reach out. Thanks, so much for jumping on here. Thanks for sharing your time with us, your wisdom, your experiences, all the stuff, man. I. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you. All that you've done for me as well. means a ton. if people want to get ahold of you, what's the best way social media handles. You want to share? How do they get in touch with you? And Light Up Columbus.

Yeah, Light Up Columbus is, we've got a good Facebook page. You got an Instagram page that, you know, I'm trying to work on, challenge myself to go live often and talk to, talk to people and build our brand. And, so feel free to reach out there, you know. My email is chris lightup columbus. com. I can't more strongly encourage people that if you're in this industry, you should be a part of the aolp, the association for Outdoor Lighting Professionals. we are growing, but they're. So the AOLP could be huge because this is an awesome industry. There's lots of people. And so this is the, you know, no agenda, no profit. We're just trying to grow this business and do things to advance lighting in North America, and so join aolp, and come hang out with us at conference and win some awards.

All right, man. Appreciate you so much.

Yeah, thank you, Ryan. you've. You've helped change my life, and so many others. And you know I'm grateful for your friendship.

Absolutely the same. All right, guys, everyone, now just go implement everything Chris said to do. It'll be easy. All right? Love you, brother.