Lighting for Profits - Episode 195

This week on the show we welcome Eric Holmgren — After 15 years in the music industry as an artist, producer, and audio engineer—and backed by a background in exercise science and clinical psychology— he built a lighting business from scratch. He's bought out competitors, survived the struggle, and learned what it really takes to win. This podcast is for creatives, entrepreneurs, and anyone wired for more. Real talk. Real strategies. Real growth.

Listen to Episode Here

Watch the episode

Episode Transcript

Ryan Lee hosts Lighting for Profits powered by Emory Allen

Welcome to Lighting for Profits.

All light. All light.

All Light.

Powered by Emery Allen. Here is your host, Ryan Lee. A lot. A lot. All light. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I don't know if you guys know this, but we're currently trending as the number one landscape lighting show in Nashville, Tennessee. That's what's, up. I'm Ryan Lee, your host of Lighting for Profits powered by Emory Allen. And, we got a great show lined up for you today. We talk a lot of different things, including business, outdoor audio, referral partners, and more. So make sure you guys stick around, take notes. I get fired up about this show. And, by the way, if you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, you're definitely in the right place. So we want to educate, we want to motivate, we want to help you dominate, and that's our goal for the show today. want to, want to thank you guys for your support. We got some reviews coming in. You know, it's like, you guys know what it's like when you ask for those five star from your five star reviews and you don't get them. You're like, what's wrong with me? And then all of a sudden it's just like you get momentum and back to back. So thank you guys so much for your support. Really, really appreciate it.

When's the last time someone told their friends about their Spirit Airlines flight

Today, today we got Mr. Eric Holmgren, with Music City Outdoor Lighting. He's been on the show before. he's a friend of, of the show and, he's coming back on. So I'm excited to have Eric on. And, he is the owner of Music City Outdoor Lighting, so we'll have him on in just a few minutes. well, you know what, let me ask you a question before we have Eric. Come on. When's the last time someone told their friends about their flight on Spirit Airlines? Exactly. Well, maybe you told them for the wrong reason. Right. But listen, if you want people to stop fighting you on price, you've got to stop selling like the Spirit and the Frontier Airlines and start selling like jsx. And today I'm going to show you how to do that. So remember, people don't remember the price. You know, you might think they do, but they remember how you made them feel. And, a couple weeks ago, a quick story. I was, going to Vegas. Lindsey and I went to Vegas with some friends. We met them down there. And, we normally drive. And, it was just a short trip. And I was like, you know what, let's, let's Fly down there. So I started looking at flights on Delta and some different airlines and stuff like that. And then I remember, I don't know if you guys have heard of jsx. Have you heard of jsx? It's like a private airline, but it's not private. It's like a private airline that's public. So basically these are, it's like a public airline, but you get some private benefits. So there's 30 seats on these, jets. And it's not private like there's other strangers on there, but there are some really cool advantages. So I booked this flight down there for us. And, the reason I did it was because I wanted to try something new. And I've been flying, first class for a few years now, but I still can't stand airports. Like the whole TSA thing, the security. I mean, I've got pre check. I've got all the things that you need to just go right through security. But I swear I always get flagged like maybe I did something illegal in a prior life or there's a Ryan Lee on a list somewhere because they're like, oh, random check. And they're like, pat me down and stuff. And I just don't like, like masses amount of people like that. So I was like, you know what, let's look at this jsx. And I'm like, hey, this is cool. They got a flight down to Vegas. So I book it, never done it or anything like that. And we show up and I gotta tell you, it was awesome. Like, you just show up to a hangar, you're at the airport, but it's like the other side of the airport and you're at a hangar and you walk in and like, you give them your ID and they grab your bags and they check you for, you know, security and stuff. But it's like real quick. You don't even know you're being checked. Really. They like wand you with some stuff and now you're just sitting there waiting for the flight. And they even tell you like, you only need to show up 20 minutes before the flight. I'm like, 20 minutes? Like that seems a little close. So we get there 40 minutes early just because I'm paranoid the first time. And sure enough, we could have gotten there 20 minutes before the flight because we sat there for 20 minutes, but they had drinks and snacks and stuff like that. And, it was just so cool being able to show up like right before the flight. And so the experience was amazing. You just literally walk out like not even far to the plane. Get on the plane and within like five minutes you're in the air, like super easy. It was an amazing experience. They have drinks, they have snacks. Like, it's just an awesome experience. The legroom was amazing, which is important for me. I'm six one. the seats were not quite as wide as first class, but it was still, a comfortable environment and everyone seemed to be in a good mood. And again, there was just 30 people sitting in this room. It wasn't like this mass chaos. And I really learned a lot through this experience. and it reminded me of how we need to differentiate our businesses by experience. When you do this, you completely remove the price. Objection. See, we all know that you can get on a Frontier or Spirit airlines, usually for a fraction of the cost and get to the same destination. So if it really, truly is about money, then why isn't everybody flying on Frontier or Spirit? Because it's not about the money, it's about the experience. And you know, when you go on these other budget airlines, you're going to get nickel and dime and it's not as comfortable and like, you don't get the benefits, you don't get the experience of these other airlines. So I put together real quick a JSX framework that you guys can apply in your business. And again, it's all about the experience. I want you guys to shift your mindset. It doesn't really matter the price at all. Like, I don't, I honestly don't remember. I think it was around 1200 bucks or something like that to fly on JSX. I don't remember the price. I truly don't. I just remember the experience. And I'm like, I'm going to do that again. Okay. Now at some point price does become a factor because if I was only about experience, then I would just fly private. But I don't have $40,000 each way to fly private. Okay? So yes, there is some stipulation in here, but generally, especially when you're talking landscape lighting, our clients are wealthy, they have money. if you're getting that price. Objection. Chances are it just has to do with the value that you're communicating and the experience you're providing.

J stands for the journey even before the sell. So I want you guys to start focusing on the entire journey

So jsx, the J stands for the journey. Okay? The journey even before the sell. So I want you guys to start focusing on the entire journey, not just the transaction, not just when you get there, but I'm talking from the first impression to the follow up design. Every step to feel premium smooth and effortless. So I wrote, down an example of some of the things you guys could do for Journey. So even from the first phone call, like, treat them like they're booking a first class flight, not just booking a project. Okay. most likely your competitors are just going to treat them like a client and a project. Right. you could have a concierge style intake form that feels exclusive to them, asking them kind of intimate, personal questions. you could send them a welcome package when they first inquire. This could be like an actual physical package or it could be just digital. Right. And it's going to talk about the experience they're about to step into. What if they got a personalized video from you? What if they got a personalized video from the owner sent to them, welcoming them to the family and, setting up the expectations for what's going to happen, whether it's you or one of your lighting designers going to meet with them. Okay. So that's the J and the JSX framework S sensory triggers.

You want to engage their senses through touch points that feel luxurious

Okay? So s the sensory triggers. Like, think about this. So you want to engage their senses. Okay. what do they see, what do they hear, how do they feel when they engage with your brand? And this starts from the, like when they first see an ad, a postcard, a wrap truck, your uniform, how you look, right. How do you smell like you might stink. you want to really create an emotional anchor through touch points that feel luxurious, exclusive and personal. Okay. And that is part of the sensory trigger. So, let me give you some examples. number one, you could use high end printed proposals. a lot of people go in and they don't have anything. There was a time where I didn't have anything. But as I got more success, got more time and got more money, I was able to build these nice, nicer leave behinds and even books to leave. Behind. Right? think about this. What if you laid down like a velvet mat if you're going to show them some fixtures, what if you put on gloves and a velvet mat? Right. even a short video presentation with music. Okay? We got Eric coming on. We're gonna talk about music here in just a few minutes. Music is very emotional, right? And we're trying to engage the emotional side of these people's brains because logically, it doesn't make Sense to spend 600 on a light fixture. We need to tap into the emotional side here. Okay? So these sensory triggers, again, short video presentation with music. you could play a one minute video inside their home. Getting Them excited about the experience they're about to have with you. And then X, the JSX X factor moments. So this is where I want you guys to deliver these X factor moments that surprise and delight. What are you doing different that everybody else isn't doing? Go above and beyond. Okay. these are the stories they're going to tell their friends about their family. The others that like, man, they. This is where the experience, not the design, not the install, but the experience becomes the product. Okay. This is an experience we're trying to, get into. So a couple examples. when the project's complete, you could send them a surprise thank you gift. It's customized to something that they like. Again, if you get to know them and they're into golf or they like drinking wine or they're into art, get them a customized gift. These are the things they're going to be talking about. And of course we want them to talk about our lighting. So but in a lot of cases it's going to be these other smaller, simple things. Okay. I've heard of people hosting private reveal parties. Okay. These walkthroughs instead of just like turning the lights on. and finally you could do a follow up 30 days later with a handwritten postcard, handwritten note, before and after photo. Right? What if you gave them a physical before and after photo album, which is easy to do now with technology for them to have as a keepsake. So these are the things, guys. JSX journey before the sale. Sensory triggers and X factor moments. I want you to keep in mind you can come up with your own JSX framework for your business. and that's my challenge to you. Okay? So differentiate by experience. So your challenge is I want you to stop thinking like the spirit and the frontier and like, oh, I just gonna, this is just a simple process. I'm gonna run these people through the system, whatever. I just want you to pick one touch point. Okay? This is in your sales or customer journey. And whether it's your first phone call, it's your proposal, it's your follow up, ask yourself, how can I make this feel first class? Don't get overwhelmed. Don't try to recreate the wheel here. I just want you to find one area where you can really kind of focus on this. how can I create an experience that these people are going to brag about, that they're going to tell their friends, they're going to tell their family, they're. That's what this is about. Because remember, people won't remember your price. They will remember how you made them feel. So spend some time this week thinking outside the box. Allow yourself some creative time. A lot of you are so busy that you don't have time to be creative. Okay, you're just going from appointment to appointment and put on the fire and do all these things. But literally schedule time on your calendar, put a one hour block, and go create your JSX moment. If they remember how you made them feel, they'll forget what you made them pay. All right, guys, this, I just had that experience. I'm like, I had to share that because so many people are missing the boat on this and they're just running through the motions and they're just doing the thing. Doing the thing. And you forget that you can be different. You can differentiate yourself.

Emory Allen is the number one landscape lighting supplier in Tennessee

So, real quick before we have Eric on. Oh, what's that? That's my Nashville theme background music. Just a reminder, guys, we are the number one landscape lighting show in Nashville, Tennessee. And you know what? We could not do this without your support and the support of our number one show sponsor, Emory Allen. Emory Allen is the go to lamp supplier in the landscape lighting industry with a proven track record of excellence. Emory Allen is at the top of their game when it comes to lighting. We all know the fixture is only half the story. The real magic happens when you pair it with a premium lamp. And, and that's why I trust Emery Allen. Their LED lamps are engineered for performance, reliability, and a, beautiful, consistent color. Whether you need G4s, Mr. 16s or specialty lamps, Emory Allen has you covered with some of the most dependable, high quality lamps on the market. Plus, they're designed to perform in tough outdoor environments, which is exactly what we lighting pros demand. So better lamps, better projects, better profits with Emory Allen. If you haven't taken advantage of the hookup, all you need to do, guys, is email tom gallen. com and mention that you heard about them here on Lighting for Profits. They will hook you up with the discounted contractor pricing. So don't go to their website when you can get the LFP discount. That's right, the Lighting for Profits discount. By emailing tom gallen. com.

We might be having technical difficulties with this show

all right, so I think it's time, you guys, I think it's time. Eric, is it time? He's like, I think it is the, moment we've all been waiting for. Let's get the music going and get Eric Holmgren on the show. Welcome to the show, Mr. Eric Holmgren. What's up, buddy. We might be having technical difficulties. I don't know if it's on my end.

I, I, I, I think we are having a little technical difficulties. I'm trying to see if it's on my end or if it's on your end, and I can't really figure it out.

Well, we do have some live people. I forgot to, check the notes here, but. What's up, Sean Day? What's up, Paul? Val?

We got Paul, we got Sean, we got Bear, the, the man, the, the one and only Bear Black.

What's up, James? So maybe, maybe if you guys are listening live, would you tell us, like, am I glitching out? Is Eric glitching out or, or were you?

Yeah, let us know if it's on one side or the other, because if I, if I need to switch to a different device, then I'll do. But I don't know what's going on.

I think we're good now.

it seems to have balanced itself.

Yeah. Welcome back to the show, man. It's good to see you.

You too. I'm excited to be here.

Found a nice country, jingle there to, you know, make sure you fit right in.

Yeah, well, I'll give you, I'll give you guys a little, a little snippet of, my company, jingle before we get off of here, so.

Oh, I'd love it.

Eric Johnson comes from the music industry and now runs Music City Outdoor Lighting

So. Well, do, do me a favor. I know you've been on the show before, it's been about a year since you were on, but just do a quick intro of yourself and, and who Eric is and how the heck you got to. Into the lighting industry.

Yeah. So, a lot of people know this, but for those of you that don't, so I actually was in the music industry for about 15 years and based, in Nashville, we run Music City Outdoor Lighting, which was previously a different name. I bought them out last year to rebrand everything. So that's been a fantastic acquisition for me to use the name to continue to build the brand, which is, as we all know, a very important thing. So, I came from the music industry, started my company as a, we'll call it, investment idea right before COVID Covid Hit music went poof. And I went, oh, crap, I gotta dial in more into this. So, met, with ryan back in 2021 when I was a company about this big with just me and sometimes a guy with me doing all the ins and outs of every piece of selling, installing, and God knows what, and got, into the system very early on and have 10, X the size of my business since grow, since joining, which I did in a period of about three years and 2024 put us at, ah, right at about a million in sales. So, if you guys are on the fence about doing this or not doing this, if you're just listening to the podcast and you haven't actually gotten into the system, you're seriously missing out. I don't care what anybody tells you, don't listen to them. Because reality is you can be a fantastic designer. You guys can know what you're doing, putting lights in, but if you can't make the dollar bills at the end of the day, what does it matter?

I love it, man. No, and, and actually last time you were here you shared that story and I didn't even really realize that. It's funny because when I meet with people, we, we do strategy sessions and we find out, hey, where are you at? Where do you want to be? Like, does it make sense to work together? Yeah, I remember meeting you and you know, like a lot of people kind of give the same objections of like, oh, it's more than I thought and can't afford it. Like, you know, it doesn't matter if you're selling lighting or coaching, whatever. Like it's kind of normal, but you don't really know like, if someone's broke or not. You know, you're like, what?

No idea. I had, I didn't have a piston when we had our conversation. I can tell you that right now. Yeah, nothing. Nothing, dude. When I, when my. When. So my son is six and a half right now and I've shared this with a handful of people on here, but I tell people this to think about it when you're starting your business and realizing how hard it really is. When I started my business, it was when my wife was pregnant with our, now six and a half year old. And when he was born, he was six weeks old. And my wife was calling me, this was a couple weeks before Christmas, and she called me because our credit card was declined for her just to buy groceries. Like we had nothing. And I was just doing whatever I could try to figure it out to make it by and you know, had to go from there from being flat broke to, you know, growing and expanding and, and you know, building and building what is an actual business now and you know, expanding into multiple, multiple areas. But it, it takes a grind and it takes the right type of person to know what you've got to do in the hours that you have to put in and realize that you're gonna. You're gonna lose some sleep over it. But if you can get through those headaches, there's a whole other side on the other. You know, on the. On the other side of it that is worth the grind and the effort that you put in.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy because most people that start businesses don't have a rich uncle. Like, we all go through that phase, and it sucks because, no, it's not fair. It's like, dude, wait a minute. You're. You're contributing to the economy. You're going to change the world, but you can't afford groceries and, and you pay your. Your. Your team members before you pay yourself. And like, oh, yeah, it just. It blows my mind that what. What we as entrepreneurs are willing to go through.

I saw. I saw a thing recently, and it showcased, the idea that it says an entrepreneur's average bank account can start out the week at 29 cents. By Wednesday, you have $31,000 and change, and then by Friday, you are down to $6. Whatever's left, if you're lucky.

Yeah, if you're lucky.

And there's the $6 you have to get through the weekend.

Well, it's been pretty cool. And I know, I know you're just still, like. You're just still writing your story. You know what I mean? Like, but, you know, one of the. One of the goals was like, hey, I. I love music, but, you know, Covid and all these things, and plus, the music industry is just freaking killer. I want to. I want to get into lighting so I can make enough money so I can support my music, you know, industry. I don't have investors, I don't have sponsors, all that stuff. So. Yeah, it's been cool to see, like, you know, like, not everyone succeeds in business. Like, some people, they get into the lighting industry and, you know, six months later they're out, or 18 months later, they're out, whatever it is. But you've had your ups, your downs, and you're. You're continuing to forge forward and. And create your own. Your own destiny. Really?

Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's had its shares of bumps and grinds and, you know, highs and lows and definitely, not, I won't say mountaintops. We've hit. We've hit some hilltops, you know, and then come tumbling down the other side. That's. But that's again, like, that's. That's. Growing a business and that's learning and understanding the things that you don't do before you start understanding the things that you do do that wasn't intended that way. But and the reality of that is like when you get into the process, you know, what's the, what's the number one way to figure out how to be successful?

Everybody's going to approach business differently, so it's important to learn

Find a hundred ways how not to be. Like, that's how you learn. You learn by screwing up basically, you know, and you go, well, not gonna do that again. And you, and then you progressively find the way that does work because it isn't like even, you know, learning and fast tracking and all that kind of stuff. That's great. But at the end of the day, it's not a one stop shop for everybody. Everybody has a different role. Everybody's going to approach it slightly differently. Some people excel in certain areas of their business and they really suck at other parts about it. You know, like there's some guys that are really good on the techie side. I'm terrible at it, so I hire people to do that stuff because I know I'm terrible at it, you know, and, but you're going to take a lot of time to learn how that works. Ultimately, you know, it because it's not a one fit scenario. But when you have the tools in front of you to help you dial in that approach, whether you create your own little nuances with it, whatever, there is still a structure to that that can, you know, it's, it's literally in my opinion, the reason that the the idea of a business coach was developed. You know, much like working with you, the idea is that we've stepped into a world of things that I couldn't even believe to, you know, put together or understand as far as business goes. And it's taken me from, you know, from this big to where we're at now. And, and it's not that it's going to stop there, but it's, you know, it's just, it's different for everybody.

You've spent five, six years owning your own business

Yeah, well, what, what are some things that you've learned about yourself over the past, you know, five, six years that you're like, you know what, I thought I was going to be better at this or man, turns out I'm better at this than I thought. Are there certain strengths or weaknesses that have risen to the top?

Say that one more time because we had technology glitches again.

Oh, buddy, just talking about your journey, you know, five, six years owning your own business. Can you hear me?

I can hear you.

I can hear you. So what are some things, maybe strengths and weaknesses that have risen to the top? Are there certain strengths that you have learned about yourself or weaknesses that you've learned about yourself?

Yeah, so the, the, One of the major things that has been noted even. Even within my own team is that my biggest strength in my business is two categories. Number, one, definitely the visionary factor. Like, I can see the ideas and I can see, you know, the stretch of that and bringing things to the table, that would be fantastic. But the other category that I seem to be really dialed in on is my interaction with people and just the availability to, you know, to have the, The. The process that goes into the selling stuff. You know, I'm. I've been good at installing, you know, and I don't necessarily want to do it anymore because. No, everybody wants to get to a point where they don't have to spend any time in the field for sure. But I have, I've had a lot of success in growing, in knowing how to approach the sale and just. And I think that comes from me entertaining people. For so many years. I've had a. I've developed a good knack for being in front of people and knowing how to drive an audience in certain ways to, you know, to make them experience and feel things from my music background and playing live shows. So in essence, I kind of walk people through that same approach when we do our sales process. And, you know, and I. And again, like, I play off of those exact terms when I do it, you know, I will literally utilize it. I've even been playing around with things lately with chat GTP on just developing terminology that we're embedding into what we're doing with our website and everything. And it's terminology that plays off of the fact that we're in Music City and we can play off of that, you know, that music and artist interactive factor, you know, using terminology like setting the stage and, you know, creating this, you know, creating this live experience and things of that nature. And it's. It's made it very interesting and bringing, a level of enjoyment to it that I didn't really think that I.

Would find that's cool. Yeah. and I think you're. You're dead on. You've got the Music City brand now. You've got the background. Like, if you start customizing that experience. Yeah, it's. It's not about price. It's like, it's. It's that brand and it's like no, that's who we want to go with. That's. We're all in with that brand.

What, what are some other, maybe some more challenges, some weaknesses

What, what are some other, maybe some more challenges, some weaknesses where you're like, oh man, I didn't know this was going to be so hard. Or things that you've struggled with or.

the automation, the automation process that goes into like qualified qualification in general. Like, we're good with that as far. I'm good with that as far as like making sure I go through that on the floor, phone and, and whatever else. But the actual automation process and, or you know, like getting those things in where we're touching people on a regular basis, whether it's in, you know, blogs or that sort of thing, and developing, you know, ongoing relationships with these clients and making sure that we're consistently in front of them. That's not an area that I have a strong point at all. You know, which is interesting because I inevitably have probably realized that that was, I bet, a very strong shortcoming of the way that I interacted with people when I was full time in the music industry too, was, you know, I wasn't doing nearly enough in a social platform comparatively to a lot of these other artists that see a lot of success out of it. And I'm recognizing that now because I've put so much effort into the content creation side of things in the last probably, year, and a half or so, give or take.

You mentioned some of your strengths are visionary and sales

Well, it's a good point because I think that's a common weakness amongst all. I mean, you mentioned some of your strengths are visionary and sales. A lot of entrepreneurs, that's their strength, right? m. Out of their weaknesses, the organization and these other things that need to happen. And I've shared this a lot. The year that I sold my business, we did $600,000 in repeat business alone, right? And I'm not saying that I could have been 1.2 if I was better. You know what I mean? Like, but it was because we were focused on that client journey and those touch points and, and staying engaged with them via email. And we didn't do, texting back then, but we did emails and maintenance plans and stuff like that. And this is where the magic happens. Because if you can get better at that and with you it's just going to be like finding the right people and hiring. It's the who, not how. Exactly. Once that happens, now all of a sudden it's okay to spend a certain amount of money in advertising because it's not just the ROI that You get right then. But three months later, when you do their backyard, their neighbor, six months after that, their cousin, a year later when they move to their or get their lake house or whatever it is, that's where the money's made. And most people aren't good at that. Most people are just a, one time transactional, relationship. And that's okay. But that's, that's the hard part about business, is the transaction, I think.

And I think I've realized over the time, like we've done a good job of taking care of the clients that we have because we do have a lot of repeat business. But what I'm also looking at as m. Much like what you said, like, I'm wondering what percentage of repeat business we're losing because we're not necessarily staying as in front of them as we could. We're memorable to those people that we give a great experience into, you know, that maybe have a larger project. And they're like, okay, well now we want to do this house because we sold this house and that's fantastic. But I also wonder, you know, what percentage of people forget the name or forget who they're trying to keep in touch with and they maybe just go with, you know, the next best option that's out there. And when they go to do something else and they don't remember the process or the company, you know, the interaction that you're doing, which I think for me, buying Music City was a huge component of that because now we're creating a brand that can be very, very pinpoint stapled into them. And now we need to do a better job of, you know, really making sure that we stay in touch with these people and develop that long term, you know, ROI out of a client of what is the, you know, the lifetime value? Not just the as now value.

Right. exactly the lifetime value. I mean if people focused on that, they'd see a lot more success. And to your point, I. This happened to me, like I did this client's house in a really nice gated neighborhood. I can't remember the dollar amount, but every house in there was minimum $20,000 project. So let's just say it was 20,000. It could have been 40. I literally can't remember. And it wasn't. It was like six months later we send out an email and it was like we had a couple holiday spots we needed to fill. So we just sent it to like our top clients. You know, we didn't send out to everybody. We didn't Even advertise that we did Christmas lights. We sent it out. She calls me or, you know, gets it booked or whatever. I go out there and she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you guys emailed us. And I was like, oh, of course, we love emailing. And she's like, yeah, I was asking my husband, like, we couldn't, we could not remember for the life of us who did our lighting. And we thought whoever did it would do the Christmas lights, but. And I'm just like, how did they forget that they just spent 20, 30, 40, $50,000 with a lighting company like literally a, few months before and they already forgot who we were. Most of us are like, dude, if, if we spend anything over 10,000, we're probably going to remember that for our life. You know, it's like that's 100% to them. It's not that much. So it reminded me, I'm like, man, we hadn't sent an email out for a while, like it was just when we needed something. So that reminded me like, dude, we need to stay engaged with these people on a regular basis. Because if they forgot who they spent tens of thousands of dollars with in that short period of time, how many jobs are moving forward? Because the landscaper says, hey, while we're here, you want us to throw in lights? The electrician, the AV company, whoever it is, we're all missing out on opportunities if we're not staying engaged and focused on lifetime value.

A great example of that is getting into content creation and doing social media ads

Yep, absolutely. And you know, I mean a lot of people, they'll like, great example of that is getting into, you know, like content, creation, doing social media ads and that sort of thing. Everybody's like, oh, I spent a thousand dollars this month and it's my first month and we didn't really get much for leads, so it must not work. It's not, it's not a month to month transaction. It's building value and building brand over time. Like, you know, I mean, like I said, we started working on our content a year and a half ago. In a year and a half time frame, I built out over 700 re on my Instagram and Facebook account. And that's just the organic side. That's, you know, that, that has to be there so that when you do have good ads on the outside to where it's bringing them to your page now, there's a funnel of stuff that they can get lost in, almost like a tick tock world. And then, you know, you can grab their attention and Keep their attention as opposed to just, you know, throwing out a really good ad and then they come over to your page and it's like, wow, there's nothing here to look at. There's 10 posts and, you know, three of them are worth something and the rest of them suck. So now I don't know what to think about this company because you don't have a presence. It takes time.

well said. I. Honestly, I. What? This was not on our menu today, but I'm glad you brought it up.

No, it wasn't, but I think it's a good topic.

It's great because a lot of people will go do a video or post something, they get two views and they give up. It's discouraging. You're like, I'm not going to make this if no one's going to watch it. You know, like, I don't care if my mom sees this or my wife or whatever. But what you just brought up is a super valuable point. You might only have two views today. Maybe you don't have enough followers. But when you do turn on ads, when you. When do. When people are gonna check you out and go, you know what? Let me check this person out. You better have a lot of good content there. And not just.

You gotta have a backlog funnel of that. I know. I love. I love listening to, you know, like, if we're talking podcasts, per se. everybody that knows me knows that I'm a huge proponent of. And I tend to listen to a lot of, Alex Harmozi. It's, you know, I mean, if you don't, that's probably worth your while, too. He's done a lot of great things in business, but one of the interesting things that he talks about a lot is the time took to get where he is. Because, you know, he was like, when you grow those numbers, you think and start out and you say, oh, you know, it's exciting that I got my first cons, you know, 20 consistent listeners, you know, and then it grows and grows and grows. And everybody's like, oh, my God, this guy's, you know, he's got, you know, millions of followers. And it's like, yeah, but it took years and years of grinding with, you know, little to no followers to get to that point.

Absolutely. Well, and here's the difference, too. Sometimes you'll see, like, the hermosis and stuff like that, and you're like, oh, man, they have millions. I was just gonna look and see. I don't know how many followers I have. I have 2,000 followers on Instagram. My goal is not to get the most followers and try to beat her, mosey with millions or whatever. No, we're in a niche market, right? You only need. I mean, I've said it before, you only need 200 people to give you 5,000 bucks to make a million dollars. You only need 20 people to give you 50k. Heck, you only need 2 people to give you 500k. Like, there's a lot of different ways to make a million bucks. And we don't need millions of followers in our markets. We don't.

There's a, there's a woman that runs an Instagram account that does, she does. It's a. It's a specialized insurance platform for, something in medical billing, basically. And she works with a very specific type of clientele. And she only has about 2500 followers on her Instagram account. And it's more direct B2B type sales. This woman clears $5 million a year in profit that she takes home. And she. She posts like once a day. She has like 2500 followers, and she is raking in the cash.

That's awesome.

Eric Johnson offers outdoor audio to clients as part of his outdoor lighting business

Well, I'm excited. I know you've. You're making some moves behind the scenes, which we won't really talk about now, but if anyone's not following, Eric, Music City outdoor lighting. You guys are going to see him blow up over the next little bit, so that'll be fun.

Oh, yeah.

I want to talk about audio. Yeah, speaking of, like, lifetime value, I mean, you don't have to just wait for clients to call you and say, hey, I want to add lights. there's other things that we can do if we're already out trenching in the yard and stuff like that. You've obviously got an audio background, but you now offer this outdoor audio to clients. What has been your, results with that?

Amazing. and if anybody is listening on here that doesn't actually infiltrate the idea of selling audio to your clients and you're doing, you know, an outdoor live lighting and. Or just like a property service. You know, if you're doing something else and you're just thinking about doing lighting, think about this as a component of that. I promise you it is not as complicated as it may seem because you don't have to get into the weeds when it comes to outdoor audio application. So that is one of the biggest things I can say with that. Where it came from with me was when I started my business and I started developing a Couple relationships with referral partners. And this was actually long before I even got in with you and started working with landscape lighting secrets. But, I had one of the pool contractors that I work with, and he just made a comment to me one day, and he goes. And he go. And we were talking about something, and he goes, and you can do, an audio package for this one too, right? And I stopped and I went, yes. Yeah. Because I'd never thought about it before, and I. So I, I agreed to it and I had to go home and do the research just to figure it out because, like, obviously, yeah, I have a decent, you know, outside of doing the, you know, the artist, you know, sort of thing, I also spent years doing audio, you know, audio production and studio work and all that kind of things on the other side of it. So I spent a little bit of time kind of understanding the do's and the don'ts of what went into the outdoor application to it because of my knowledge of my background. And we kind of started putting that together and it just took off from there. And I'll give you, I'll give you a little tip into this one. So we just did an audio install at, a property last week, and it was a system that we sold for $10,000, and it took two guys about three hours to install.

Wow.

That was it.

That's crazy. Well, I want to. I want to throw this out there real quick.

We're talking apples to apples as far as, profitability goes. It's something that you can put into your system that will very, very closely, it will very closely tie into to exactly the, you know, the, the idea that you want. Because I think a lot of people are like, oh, well, you know, we're already doing this lighting thing and, you know, we're really profitable. And I'm. And I'm telling you, audio can be extremely profitable for you. It's not that difficult. There is a couple key factors that I will say that goes into that world of things that you would want to. Just that you would want to do in certain ways that don't shoot yourself in the foot. I will say that because I've seen a lot of really bad examples of it too. So there are ways that you want to approach that.

In just a few minutes, we're going to do a giveaway

Well, I do want to. I want to ask you some. Some tips and stuff like that, but I do want to tease this in. In just a few minutes, we're going to do a giveaway. we're gonna do a raffle And I don't. I think Eric is just like, you know what, I wanna, I want to be a giver. I want to do this. So, oh, wait, I'm not going to show that yet. We are going to do a giveaway. Okay. So I have, I have a link. I'll share and I'll say it out loud for those listening to the audio. But, Eric is going to give away, actually tell us what you're going to give away, at the end of the show.

So, for whoever the lucky winner is, I am giving away an hour worth of, we'll call it powwow session. But I'm giving away an hour's worth of coaching slash training in infiltrating outdoor audio into your business that you are already running as a lighting designer, whatever service you're offering to a customer. So we will dial into that, we will get into the details of the options that you have out there, what does and doesn't make sense, and get you with a basis in an hour's time frame that you should feel comfortable be to be able to go out and say, sell that system to your clients.

Okay, sweet. So it's gonna be a raffle. There's only gonna be one winner. I'll share the link here in a few. But this honestly is such a cool opportunity because this is, ah, an opportunity to have a new revenue machine in your business that you can do hundreds of thousands of dollars. so I just wanted to tease that.

You need to paint the experience. This isn't just about putting a product in the yard

But before we do that, give us some more, some more information on the audio. How do you sell it? Are you doing demos? sticker shock with landscape lighting is a real thing. I'm sure it happens with audio too. How do you, how do you do this?

So audio, Audio definitely has its same kind of, nuances as far as the sticker shock value goes, much like you would do with the lighting. So there are, there are ways that you can kind of curb that and ultimately it's going to be one product selection. I am a huge proponent of trying to work with products that you aren't just going to grab off of a Best Buy shelf. So find a product that you can work with that is a classified contractor grade, much like you would with your lighting products. That's one of the areas that you can definitely separate from, you know, not being the Hampton Bay guy that installs lights. You don't want to be the guy that's grabbing, you know, audio off of the shelf in Best Buy or Walmart to stick into somebody's yard, that's probably not going to be a benefit to you. One of the other key areas that you'll get a lot of pushback is on the actual cost of what you're doing. And again, you need to. You need to. Much like you would with the lighting, you need to paint the experience. This isn't just about putting a product in the yard. You. You really want to be painting the experience. And here's, here's a helpful tip that I'll give you guys that I always work with clients if we're looking at a, a transformation in this format, because likely we're already talking about lighting and we're going to introduce audio. And here are the three key factors that you want to ask a client when you're in that backyard environment, which I highly recommend that you should be standing in the backyard when you're doing this. Paint the picture and say, when you look at this space right here, maybe they're in the process of putting a pool in, or they've already got one. When you look at this space, tell me what you see now, and then tell me what you think are your top three answers for what would make this environment here a resort versus just a pool in your backyard. What is the difference between going to a Caribbean resort and how you feel and what you interact versus what's sitting in your backyard right now? And I typically can get two, three answers that I'm always looking for when I say that to a customer. Number one is lighting, number two is audio, and number is fire features. So if you can set that precedent in their mind that they are there to create their own individual backyard oasis, then this is a very key component of that because they're going to give you anyways. And then you get to lead into the idea that there's value to that, because now you've experience that's literally at a resort, and you're talking about bringing resort value to their own backyard. So now you've stepped up the perceived value of what that ticket is worth to them internally, that's good, I thought, you know, and then it's the design.

Factor that I thought someone was going to say, personal waiter, bringing pina coladas.

I mean, if. If you've got your own dilio hanging around that can provide you with a margarita while you're sitting out there at the same time, then more power to you. But most of the time I end up being that guy when I'm at home, so.

Exactly. So that's the fourth thing. It's the three things. Plus that it's four.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's the four things now, not the three things.

Okay, very cool.

Eric Turn says a lot of people assume you would want to do a demo

So, and then, do you do a demo? You know, you don't even do a demo and they're still buying these $10,000 systems.

Nope. I have never done a demo on anything in my life when it comes to this business. I've never done a lighting demo. I've never done an audio demo. I don't do it. It's. If, if you know how to sell properly and you can paint an experience to people, then it isn't going to be a necessary thing. And I'm not saying don't do it to start out. Like, if it's a piece of what you feel you need to convince somebody, that's great. But I also have examples. I can bring them to my property, I can bring them to another client's property. We can showcase things, you know, and give them that. And I agree that a lot of people would assume you would want to do a demo when it comes to audio, because audio is actually something you need to hear. You're not going to hear that in a video, per se. but think of the environmental aspect of how you're working with this. 90% of people that are going to buy these systems are, around a pool area. Number one answer that you're going to get for, from people having kick, you know, kickback questions of why this is necessary is they're going to say, well, I've got a Bluetooth speaker, so why do I really need to spend all this money in audio? And I say, you know what, you're right. But you see that waterfall that's at the end of your pool right there? You see these luminaire deck jets that are sitting around your water. What happens when you have a couple of people over and you're trying to entertain and you've got all these water features on because you really want to show them how cool this space is and you want to create that ultimate experience for them. How do you think it's going to feel when you've got a Bluetooth speaker stuffed over in the corner right there compared to this resort feel that you're trying to go for? You're not, because the, the noise that is drowned out from those water features or those, you know, those deck jets and whatever else is going to completely ruin the experience of the ambiance of the audio that goes around that space. So you have to design it Properly, where you've got speakers in certain locations all the way around that space. You're not just dropping a, speaker or two and blasting them off the back of the house, because now it's way too loud next to the house, and you can barely hear it on the other side of the pool because you've got all this water movement noise that's creating issues with that. So it's just painting pictures and letting them understand that there's an environment aspect to this. You can't just stick a speaker in the corner of the room like you can in your bedroom in the house.

Yeah. I'm impressed that you, you're able to do it without demos. I. I feel like I get my own head here. You know, like you say. They say to not sell with your own pocket book and stuff like that. I'm like, I know if you came to me and I, you know, I know what audio good audio is now, but if you came to me before I did and, like, hey, you want to get some speakers? I'm like, hell, yeah, let's get some music. And then you're like, okay, it's $12,000. I'm like, hell, no, let's not get some music. You know? But then if you. If I hear it and feel it, then I'm like, oh, man, I can't. I can't not have that. Like, I'll find a way. You know what? Let's just get it done, you know? Whereas it's like, oh, it probably sounds better than a Bluetooth. It just doesn't get me going. So I. At least me. And again, I'm in. I know I'm in my own head right now. I think, especially if you're new, it's not gonna hurt to get a couple demo speakers and turn them on for people. So that's. Wow. I see what you're talking about, Eric. Like, turn on your Bluetooth. Turn on the waterfalls. How's that sound? They go, oh, that sounds good. Then you turn it off, and you turn yours on. It's like, whoa. We didn't know what good meant.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. but again, like, you got to a point where you could sell lighting all day without having to do a demo offer to people. So, yeah, it's. It's the same thing. Like, you get to that level of confidence to know how to walk these people through these questions and showcase to them like, you know what they want, and you've already built that rapport with them. And, like, I can tell You. I've literally had conversations with people and before I've even finished the sales process to give them numbers, they've already asked me, so who do we need to make the deposit check out to? Like, are we going to make it out specifically to you or does it, you know, to Music City? And I'm like, hold on, we don't even, we haven't even talked about what the cost is. And they're like, yeah, it's cool, it's cool. Like we, we can see you have what we want. So, we're, we're ready to get this knocked out. So I've had people want to give me checks before we even talk about what the actual cost of it is, because that at that point you've created such a comfort level and a trust level with these people that it doesn't matter to them what it costs. You throw out a number. I did one, probably about a month and a half ago on a, on a, a total backyard transformation. We're doing a whole lighting package. they're putting a pool, a pool house in a pickleball court, all this stuff. So we're doing a bunch of lighting with it. But I ended up selling a, ah, twenty two thousand dollar audio package with it as well. Just because, it was a, it was a conversation that was brought up. And they're like, yeah, it'd be nice to have some audio out here. And I was like, okay, let me talk to you about this, how this will work and why we put things where we do. And they were, she was, you know, and, and the lady was like, oh, that sounds amazing. Then, I was like, if you want to dial this part back. And she's like, no, we need to have this as a separate zone. I was like, all right, well, if you need to have it separate, then this is what you've got to go with. And she's like, okay, cool, let's do it just like that. And it's like a 22, 000 audio package.

That is so rad. You know, it's so cool because. So, it's just an opportunity that most people aren't taking advantage of. And the key to all this is like, make more offers. And worst case, if you make an offer for like, hey, it's, you know, 30,000 in lighting and 22,000 in audio.

Eric: There are a lot of buyers out there for custom lighting

And they're like, you know what, Eric, we're not going to do the audio right now. Let's just do the lighting. Oh, I'm sorry. I only made 30 grand off this client today and I'll get the 22 later on. It gives them something to say no to or it gives those buyers which. There are a lot of buyers out there. There's a lot of people that want to spend money that, that want that experience in their backyard.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean these people are spending 52k with me between their lighting and their audio. So yeah, I mean that's like, that's what some people's yearly paycheck is right there. So you know, the money is out there and it, it will, it'll come if you dial it in the correct way.

You have to focus on what you want. And if you're constantly thinking, I'm gonna get a hundred grand job

100.

Well, you've done good getting into like bigger projects. What's, what's the biggest project you've done so far?

we've got one that we're actively doing right now. That's 82,000.

Wow, that's cool.

That's a, that's a pretty decent one. My, my goal is to I, I would like to have one in the next month or two month or so that I can say that we sold an over 100k project which may actually happen tomorrow. I have a meeting with a, with a couple that has a 50 acre estate that we're discussing. So and lighting, mile long driveway and all the potential is pretty high in that environment.

That's awesome. Well, most people think I'm crazy when I talk about manifesting things and everything else, but I'm just telling you, like you get what you focus on. And if you're constantly thinking, I'm gonna get a hundred grand job this month, I'm gonna get a hundred grand job this month. Your subconscious works for you while you're sleeping. Like you see opportunities differently than before. You'll talk to someone that you weren't willing to talk to. Like that's how it's done. You have to get intentional on what you want. I know I've shared it with you, I've shared it with a few others. Is my 2050. I'm like, you know what, if you want to make a million dollars in the next 12 months, you just need 20 people to give you 50k. Yeah, just go out there and make if that was your focus every single day, every single week, every single month. Like, I don't know, maybe you get 22 people, maybe you get 18 people, maybe some people give you 10 grand. But the point is you're going to go and attract those 20 people. Give you 50k in exchange for a badass lighting experience. A badass audio experience, whatever's in your arsenal. But 20, 50, you know, and, and maybe if you're a bigger thinker, then just do 10, 100, you know, like what. You can make the numbers, whatever you want, but until you, until you get intentional, you're just going to keep getting what's given you. And I think there's more to life than that.

Yeah. And I like, I, I saw some, somebody posted something the other day and they were, they were overwhelmed with a job that they got, they were talking about and they were just not sure. you know, there's a potential for a job that was going to be like 100 fixtures that they were going to be, that they were going to be bidding on and all this stuff and what it kind of painted a picture of and what I feel like I've always had a decent knack for, even when I started this was not feeling like I could go into a sale and lack the confidence and lose it because I just fumbled and I looked like I didn't know what I was doing. The biggest thing you can do is try to go into any and every meeting that you have with the feeling that you can take care of their wildest dreams, no questions asked, and just get the deal and figure it out once you get the deal. Because, and I know, Greg Matthews is a great proponent of this. I mean, the guy is, is the, you know, like every project of his is what somebody's only dreams of, basically. But in his world, what I like is that, you know, it's the. You break it down like you sell, you sell a hundred thousand dollar project. It's not a hundred thousand dollar project. If you look at it correctly. You section it out, you build it, you say, okay, I just sold five 20k jobs. You know how to manage a 20k job? No problem. So manage the hundred, but manage it in 20k increments so that you can take that stress level out of it and digress it down and feel like you have, you're empowered to knock this out of the park now because you just have to put it into blocks and build it one block at a time.

Yeah. Love it. Yeah.

You've been a coach with, with us Inside Landscape Lighting Secrets

and let's do a giveaway. You want to do a giveaway? So if you guys, want to, whether you're watching or listening, you can go to landscape lightingsecrets. com/. Is that a slash? I think it's a slash. Podcast-giveaway, forward slash. Yeah. And then is it a dash between podcast and Giveaway.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay, so landscape lightingsecrets. com forward/, podcast-giveaway. if you're qualified to be able to type that in, then you could win an hour with Eric, and help you get your audio division launched, which would be literally, this is worth a ton of money because, like, you're getting an expert who already has tons of experience.

And yeah, if you, and if, if you guys want an example of that, like, I know, Paul is listening right now. I worked with Paul on, a project here recently. He sent me a bunch of design stuff and asked me what my opinions were on what he was doing. So he's, a great example of somebody that we, that I've already had some conversations with and, and helped him dial in the idea that audio is an important part of what he can be selling for these clients.

All right. I think, I was making sure it worked before. Oh, it is still working. Okay, so we'll put it in the show notes too. if you guys, can't figure out how to, type in what I just said, we'll have a link in the show notes so you can get. You guys can go there too. But a, one hour discussion with Eric, with Music City Outdoor Lighting by adding audio options to your lighting business. So very cool, man. I appreciate you doing that.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's killer. What. I know, and I know you've, you know, been. You've been a coach with, with us Inside Landscape Lighting Secrets. You've also answered a lot of phone calls and coached people for free, mentored and stuff like that. What's been your experience with that? What has coaching others done for you personally?

it's very rewarding, I'm not gonna lie. Like, it's. It's something that I didn't think I would enjoy as much as I honestly do. And I feel like there is the strong potential that there may be more of that in the future, as I, you know, just as time goes on. Because to be plainly honest, I know there is a huge lack in the world that is outdoor audio and the training that goes into that. So it is a bit of a conversation that I have had of the potential to possibly set something up for that and do something with it in a coaching format on a much more, On a much bigger scale than just spending an hour with somebody on the phone.

Yeah, it's cool. I mean, I know for me, I. They say that actually teaching is the last, like, best form of learning and like, it's not that I learned everything. I've. I've learned so much just by teaching these last five years because, like, I'm like, man, I got to get prepared if I'm going to talk to Eric about this thing. I got to kind of get my shit together first. Right? So it helps you, like, stay sharp. And then also it's like, man, when you're teaching, you see it just from a totally different perspective, and you're like, man, why, why, why don't I do this? I mean, you learn so much more just by teaching.

Yeah, I mean, I'm. Yeah. Like, I know a couple, A couple of the names that are on here, you know, are people that I've worked with and done accountability coaching and, yeah, like bears, commenting here. You know, let's go. ET Holmgren, you know, he's, he's one of the ones I've had the conversation with of, you know, that, that I'm seriously considering trying to put this, you know, this together and, and get an audio training program off of the ground. So, but it is a rewarding experience. But I do love the fact that it keeps you extremely sharp. You're going to notice all these little things that you're coaching people on because you have the knowledge there. And then it reminds you, oh, crap, I'm not infiltrating this into my own business right now. So, like, I'm telling these other people to do these things and I'm kind of screwing myself over at the same time because I can teach it. But, you know, you're playing that, you're playing that do as I say, not as I do role in, in business. That's really not what you should be doing. You should be leading by example and actually doing the things that you're telling these people that you're helping them grow and scale their businesses. And you're over there sitting there going, yeah, go do that. And I'm just going to go over here and do this and why the hell is this month suck right now? It's like, because you're not doing the things that you're telling other people to do.

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's cool, man. It's been fun to see you grow. It's been fun to see you helping others grow their business too.

Music City outdoor lighting says everyone needs landscape lighting and outdoor audio

I guess as we wrap up here, how do, how do people get a hold of you? And then we're going to have you, send us off with a, some nice, nice, music.

How do people get one more time. It glitched out for a quick second. How do people get a hold of me? Instagram, Facebook, Tick tock. We have Music City out lighting. You just search it on any one of those. I'm happy to have a short conversation with anybody if they got any questions. you can ping me, shoot me a message on there. That's probably the quickest and easiest way to get in touch with me. Otherwise just, you know, hit up Music City outdoor lighting or Google us and you know, call the, call the company and reach out to me and we'll, we'll do what we can to help out. I'm, I'm all for always helping people out. That's something that I'm a huge proponent of is playing the playing the you know, it's a team effort environment. So we have, I mean we all have to do our part to keep the industry aware and you know, and out there and you know, continuing to grow the value that is landscape lighting and outdoor audio. So you know, we're all out here to paint a picture to say that everybody needs it. And much like you've said that, I'm a huge proponent of that. Like in a perfect world, everybody needs. It doesn't matter. It can be security related or health related because there is health related scenarios to both audio and lighting all day long that you can paint a picture of for people.

Oh yeah, everyone needs it. Not everyone can afford it. but everyone needs it.

But they can.

Eric Holmgren writes jingle for Music City outdoor lighting

Go to landscapelightingseekers. com podcast-giveaway if you want to enter to win the raffle, with time with Eric and are you gonna play some music for us?

I could do that. I could do that. Let's do I'll give you guys a little bit of a window into the jingle that was written for the Music City brand that I've kind of been working with. I haven't really put it out much. We're going through the recording process and trying to get everything finalized with it, but then I'll be starting to tag it into some of the content stuff that we're going to be putting out. So it's short, it's like 10 seconds, but it gets the point across and it works well.

Let's do it.

We're gonna, we're gonna light you up. We're gonna make it shine. Gonna feel that glow from the inside. Music City outdoor lighting. We make it shine.

Let's go man. I need to have my clap, sound here. Where was it? Oh, it is. Love it. well, that's good, man. Why don't you, instead of me playing my regular outro, why don't you send us off with some good music to, listen to as we go? And before that, I want to thank you for your time. Eric, thanks for jumping on the show.

Thank you for having me.

Appreciate it.

As always.

Congrats on your success so far and can't wait to see what the next chapter holds.

Yeah, onward and upward, as they say. That's the name of the game, right?

All right, man. Play some of that Eric Holmgren music as we, roll out.

American born American blue white stripes in red land that we love and adore Lead them right down to the core.

Love it, man.

All right, guys, go out and implement. Go out, write something down. Do something different today than you did yesterday

All right, guys, go out and implement. We got the jsx, we got audio, we got all sorts of things. Go out, write something down. Do something different today than you did yesterday and make it happen. Thanks for coming on, Eric. Appreciate you.

Absolutely. Thank you.

All right, see everybody.