Lighting for Profits - Episode 216

Join Travis Hogue, owner of Outdoor Lighting Perspectives of Orlando and West Palm Beach, as he shares insights from years of lighting up properties, theme parks, and resorts. Discover how great design, dependable systems, and genuine passion can transform spaces and elevate the lighting industry - one project at a time.

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Episode Transcript

Welcome to Lighting for Profits. All light. All light

Welcome to Lighting for Profits.

All light. All light.

All light, powered by EmeryAllen. Here is your host, Ryan Lee.

If you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business,

All light. All right, all light.

Let's go. We got an awesome show. It's Lighting for Profits powered by Emory Allen. I'm your host, Ryan Lee. We got an awesome show lined up. if you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, I honestly can't think of a better place for you to be right now. You're in the right place. We're to educate, we're here to motivate or to help you dominate. So, got an awesome show. We got Mr. Travis Hogue with Outdoor Lighting Perspectives. first talked to Travis several years ago, but got to know him, more recently. And you know, most people are like, they have goals, they have ambitions, they want to grow their lighting business. And so excited to have Travis on because he's done what, not most people have been able to do and that's growing a, ah, successful lighting business. And not just to like, oh, five, 600 grand, but like, girl, like a very healthy business where he's not doing everything. he still does a lot, but he's not doing everything. You know, he's not wearing all those hats and so excited to have Travis on. and, we'll, hear from him in just a few minutes. before we have him on. I want to thank you guys so much for your support. Really appreciate it. Means a lot. And I'm still asking for those five star reviews. So if you have not given us a five star review for Lighting for profits on Apple or Spotify, please do so, please. but again, we got Travis Hogue with Outdoor Lighting Perspectives coming on in just a few minutes.

Are you a reactive business owner versus a proactive business owner

Before we have him on, I want to ask you something. Are you, are you. Do you keep blaming others for your problems? Are you a reactive business owner versus a proactive business owner? did you experience a slowdown this year? I talked to a lot of people and it's like, man, I don't know what it was, but it's slower. it's probably just the economy. It's probably just something the government did. One of my, one of my. Some of the best advice I ever got was actually early on in my career and it was from my first sales trainer and he told me, control the controllables. And I don't know if I knew exactly what he was talking about at the time, but, I've applied that principle, almost every day or at least tried to. you see, when I launched my lighting business. it was right before the 2008 housing crisis and the housing crash. And, we. We went from thinking, like, I thought I, like, started like, things were going pretty good. I was selling, like, $10,000 job, a $25,000 job. I was like, holy cow. Like, this is going to be awesome. so I went from thinking I had it all figured out to trying to figure it out. And, at first I was like, well, the economy. I made these same excuses that I see people making today. Well, yeah, of course it's the economy. I mean, what are we going to do? We can't sell $25,000 lighting jobs. but that's not how I operate. I had a mission and I had a family to support. We, only had one daughter at the time, but I was like, yeah, how am I going to pay my bills? And so I had to. Had to figure things out. I had to control the controllables. And, so. So if you're not getting the traction that you see others getting in the lighting industry or maybe in their other business, or if you're not as far along as you think you should be, I mean, I don't know if you guys are like that, but that's how I am. I'm like, man, what's wrong with me? Like, why am I not. I feel like I should be further along than I am. Right. Well, I think I figured it out. It usually comes down to one thing, and that one thing is called a constraint. And most, most of our businesses have multiple constraints. but what I've found, I mean, at this point, I've coached hundreds of lighting, professionals. and I talked to everybody about their. Their constraints, their challenges, their problems. Right? And, there's, so many trends, there's so many themes. It's like, yeah, there's so many patterns that exist in everyone's company, regardless of if they're doing, you know, 300 grand a year or a couple million dollars a year. They all. It all comes down to one thing. It comes down to constraints. And so most of you are, like, so busy that you don't even have time to define what you want. Like, what do you ultimately want? Are you trying to build a legacy? Are you trying to build a lifestyle business? Are you just trying to make a certain amount of money? Like, what is it that you're really chasing and why? That's. The other hard thing is like, okay, yeah, this is what I want, but why? Because when you define what you want and why you want it. It's a lot easier because now you have a path, you have a plan. You can, like, reverse engineer how to get there. And, once you realize this, you'll realize that the reason you're not already where you want to be.

It comes down to constraints. And so some examples of constraints are time and money

It comes down to constraints. And so some examples of constraints are time. You know, time is always a big constraint. Money, also a big constraint. It's like, oh, man, if I just had more time, you know, if I had more money, if I had an extra hundred thousand dollars in my bank account, what would I do with that? Right? So time and money are the big ones. But there's other constraints that could exist, like labor. maybe you can't get the work done, you know, at different phases. It's funny because some businesses are like, I need more leads, I need more jobs, I need more money. And then other business, like, dude, I got too much work. I can't figure out how to get it all done. Right, so what's your constraint? another constraint could be knowledge, could be skill set, could be connections, could be belief. for most of you, belief is always there, right? And so, but here's what I figured out is most people are overthinking, planning too much, performing busy tasks. And you're doing these busy tasks because it feels good. It feels busy. And then you're like, oh, yeah, well, at least, you know, I'm working my ass off. It's like, but is that really helping you get to the level that you think you deserve and you think you want? Right? And so if you'll spend some time to really identify your biggest constraint, and then once you identify that, like, focus solely on that constraint, then suddenly all of your energy, all of your attention goes to that. And guess what? You solve the problem faster. Because I would say probably about 80% of the businesses I talk to, their constraint is actually money. It's money and time. But really, if they had more money, they could buy back their time. And so when you're. If you're saying, like, well, I got this, I got that, I got, you know, whatever, and you just can't figure out where to start and how to get traction, you need to solve the biggest constraint. And the biggest constraint is, how do I make more profit? How do I make more money? And it really comes down to focusing on that. So if I'm. If I'm a struggling business owner and I don't have enough time to get all the things done, and I know I need to hire people and all that, well, Then I'm not going to waste my time doing small activities that just keep me busy. You got to eliminate all the distractions, put the blinders on, and focus on the one constraint holding you back. So if it is money, then what are you going to do in the next 30 days to generate an additional a hundred thousand dollars in revenue and $30,000 extra in profit? Like, that's really what you should, that should, that should be the problem you're trying to solve instead of like, well, you know, I know we, I, know Ryan said we're supposed to build systems and processes, and I know I'm supposed to do this. And yeah, we got to build culture and like, these are all good things. And at some point you'll need to tackle that in your business. But is it the one constraint holding you back? And maybe, you know, even we just put on secret, ah, summit. And at secret summit we had, I mean, a ton of takeaways, right? And some of those takeaways might be a distraction. Just because it's a good thing to do doesn't mean it's the best thing for you to do in your business right now. throw it on a list somewhere like, okay, let's make it. But is it a priority? And the number one priority should be the number one constraint that's holding you back in your business. And literally like 95, if not 100% of your focus and attention should be to solve that constraint. And in too many cases, I see too many people devoting 20% of their time to solving their biggest constraint or even less. And like, then they, they wonder. I don't know why I can't get traction. I don't know why I'm not moving forward. Well, it's because you're not devoting enough time and energy and focus to solving that constraint. You're getting distracted. You're filling your time with unnecessary activities. And again, it's not your fault. It's really not. Like, this is how humans are wired. We seek comfort. We seek comfort. And so it's like, well, I'll just do this because this will get me by for today. For example, maybe your sales process, is a little bit janky. And so you're just like, well, I'm not going to solve this right now, because I don't have time. But what if, what if you spent an entire day and said, you know what, Next, make up a day, Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm going to not do any work. I'm not going to focus on anything else. I'm going to solve that problem so that now when I go to meet with people, I'm going to solve this problem one time and increase my closing rate by 10, 20, 30%. And now all of a sudden, that solves the money problem. Because most people say to me, we ask people when they fill out an application to do a strategy session with us. What's the number one thing holding you back? What's your biggest challenge? And I'll ask a lot of people this, and it usually comes down to, I need more leads. And when we really dissect their business, like. Like, getting more leads is actually not going to solve the problem. In fact, it's going to make it worse because it just makes them busier, you know, and if you haven't really perfected your pricing and you haven't perfected your sales process, then getting more leads is just making the problem bigger. Because now you're just going to be busier and you're wasting more time every single week. But when you can dial in and make sure you have your price exactly where it needs to be and your choice, you're making the profit you deserve as a business owner. And you're closing effectively. Now all of a sudden, you get that one extra, two extra deals a week, and now you got another constraint. Now you're. Now you're selling more jobs, you have more money, and now you're like, how am I going to get this done? That's when you move to the labor constraint. Right?

You need to identify your constraint. What's the number one thing holding you back

So I just want to, This was on my mind just because, again, lately I've been having all these conversations, and people don't understand what their constraint is. They don't even take time to think about it. They. They don't strategize. They just keep being reactive to everything that happens around them. Reactive to the economy, reactive to the government. All this stuff. It's like, no, no, no, that's not how this works. Control the controllables. Be proactive. Stop making excuses. Stop blaming others. Stop blaming your circumstance. Stop blaming your location. You can do this. It requires you to be intentional. Okay? And, you know, maybe. Maybe I'm just in a mood. I think I'm in a mood. But the reason I'm sharing this is because I've been there. I've been in that circumstance where I want to blame everything else and I want to, you know, assign blame elsewhere. But when you control the controllables, it gives you back that power. It gives you. It's very empowering because now you can do something about it. Because when you make excuses and blame others, it's. You're. You're. You're helpless. And I don't like that. I don't like that feeling. I like to. To know that, like, I can do something about this. So. And I'll tell you, I don't care where you live. I don't care what the state of the economy is. You can still control the controllables. Okay? You can't control the weather. You can't control if someone yells at you. You can't control if someone quits. Whatever. Maybe next time, maybe you could, like, do a better job recruiting. Maybe you could do a better job training, like, all those things. But right now, you need to identify your constraint. What's the number one thing holding you back? I'm telling you, focus on. Put all your energy, all your attention, everything to that. And if you're doubtful, then do it to prove me wrong. Do it for a week and do it to prove me wrong, because you'll find that it's not wrong. And it's the thing that you need. You need focus. You need intention. You need to go after the number one constraint holding you back, and you'll see that it's liberating. You'll buy back your time. You'll. You'll have freedom. You'll have focus. You'll feel like you actually are on track towards your trajectory. So when you hear people say, work on your business, not in your business, this would be an activity you could do. This would be like, okay, like, working harder has proven the last five years to not work. Okay, so next Tuesday, I'm not going to go on a sales appointment. I'm not going to go do an install. I'm not going to do whatever. I'm just going to work on my business. I'm going to figure out what I want in life, why I want it, and then I'm going to reverse engine, the engineer, the plan, how I'm going to get there. What's the number one constraint? I'm going to solve that problem. Just do that. That's step one. And then don't worry about constraint number two. Don't worry about. Well, yeah, what if that happens? How am I going to grow the labor? Don't worry about that. That's not your constraint right now. Your number one constraint is how do you make more money? So go solve that problem.

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Travis Hogue joins us after attending a secret summit in Florida

All right, guys, it is time M to continue on with the shoot. Go. I promised earlier. We got Travis coming on, so let's get that music going. Let's get him on the show. You guys ready? Welcome to the show, Mr. Travis Hogue. What's up, Travis?

Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate being here, dude.

I love it. I'm excited to catch up.

Yeah, me too. Me too. Love the intro. So many good takeaways, man. I'm excited to get into them.

I love it. Yeah, I, I don't know. I think I'm in a mood because I was like, I don't know. I. I know. Like, I'm pretty direct and, some people get offended and I'm like, how? I'm not trying to. Maybe I am trying to offend you. Like, I want to light a fire under your ass. Like, I'm doing it out of love because I wish someone would have done that to me and been like, what are you doing? I'm like, I don't know.

I've been in a mood since getting back from West Palm after the secret summit. That was incredible. I think, I think you're just rolling off of that. You know, you're ready to keep it going and keep pushing.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I. I, love the in person events. I mean, I absolutely love what we do with secrets. We get the opportunity a couple times a week to get on zoom meetings and stuff, stuff like that. But it's totally different. I mean, I. We put together so much in terms of, like, organizing and choreographing the event and the speakers and all this stuff and what message and when they're going to say it and the emotion of it and all this stuff. But what's cool is when I see you guys like, staying late. Like, we're like, hey, guys, you gotta, you gotta get out of the room. You know, and like, just all, all of that. I think that's where the magic happens.

Yeah. Skipping lunch so that way we can get an extra session in on the last day. It's just, everybody was just ready to learn, trying to soak it all in. So much good information there.

That was so cool. I mean, there was, there was things that were not planned. Like, like, yeah, like, hey, can. Can Jimmy keep talking? Can we not have lunch? I'm like, what? Yes. This is amazing.

Yeah, you mentioned something for a second. It's like, no, no, no, pause. That's an hour worth of talk. Let's, let's keep that going because that's important for everybody here. So, we're excited. We're implementing a lot of. A lot of things we've taken away from there already.

That was so cool. The other thing was, I thought was cool. I had like a certain amount planned. Like two 45 minute sessions of 10k ideas. And then people just kept going along. They're like, hey, I got another one. And then, you know what, that reminds me, this is another thing we do. And I'm like, yes, keep going. So we're like modifying the schedule in real time just based on, like, seeing how you guys, you know, are growing and learning.

Yeah, no, it was awesome. So cool. No. Ready to get started and dive into this thing.

Love it.

Travis Hogue owns outdoor lighting franchise Outdoor Lighting Perspectives

Well, do me a favor, you want to just do a quick introduction of who Travis Hogue is?

Sure. So, my name is Travis Hogue. I'm here in Orlando, Florida. I own one of the larger outdoor Lighting Perspectives locations in, North America. Most, people know, but Outdoor Lighting Perspectives is, ah, outdoor lighting franchise. came out about 25 years ago. And I opened in, 2020 after an engineering job. Wanted to get into entrepreneurship and owning my own business. my wife was in franchising, so that kind of seemed like an easy button to press. And then we went from, we'll talk later. But like, my goal that I had when I quit my job of like, I just need to do this much revenue and that, you know, convinced me to quit, to what we did in our first year was, incredible. Absolutely incredible. And that's growing haven't taken our foot off the gas yet, so it's a lot of fun.

You used to not have a very successful lighting business

Well, I, I want to kind of break down your story because at least from my perspective, and I'm again, I'm kind of selfish when it comes to the show because I'm like, hey, let's have Travis on. I want to find out more about his story and we might as well just record the conversation. So. But it's really cool because I know like, kind of where you're at now. Your, your numbers are phenomenal. you were vulnerable at Secret Summit, just kind of talking through like, hey, from a budget standpoint and everything else, but you're one of the top OLP franchises. And I think what I want to do is like, show people that like, you're not. Well, you might think you are, but you're not superhuman. Like, you're just a guy who, like, just like a normal person, but happens to also have some superpowers. And like, hey, this is what I do and this is how I do it. And I think that's cool because, when people see that, it's like, wait, you. So you used to not have a very successful lighting business. You used to not know what landscape lighting was. And then in a short period of time you're able to ramp up. Like, that's inspiring to me.

I appreciate that. Yeah, I, take it way back, like. So my parents, my dad was electrical engineer, mom was mechanical engineer. Both worked for the Navy as civilians. And that was always going to be the background was engineering. Went, to UCF here in Orlando. Always wanted to be loved theme parks as a kid, like that was the big thing. Every vacation, as a child involved going to a theme park somewhere and riding some new roller coaster. And so after graduating, being here in Orlando, there's some great theme park consulting companies. And so I went to go work at a, MEP company, Mechanical Electrical Plumbing as an electrical engineer in their theme park division. So I did ride integrations, everything from like the back of house maintenance shed to crazy rides and attractions at Disney, Universal Sea World, and a bunch of parks all around the world. So did that and kind of saw that side of things and really enjoyed the design and through a couple of steps had my eyes open to, home service based businesses and entrepreneurship in that direction and just decided I wanted to pivot and did it in the middle of COVID with a newborn child and made it through three rounds of layoffs at the company I worked for at the time. And after the last round, I kind of went back to my manager and was like, hey, I kind of thought I was getting laid off in that one. So, you need to hire one of those guys you m. Let go, you know, yesterday. And here's my notice, and I'm gonna go try this thing. That's the best decision I ever made.

And that.

You started with outdoor lighting perspectives; now you own seven territories

So did you start. You bought it? Did you buy a franchise at first? That's how you got started?

Yeah. So I started with outdoor lighting perspectives, but Orlando was a Greenfield territory. So my first territory I purchased was Orlando north, which was, if anybody's familiar with Orlando, it's basically the not theme park area of Orlando. It's kind of the more historic home area. That's also where I lived. So I bought that territory first. the first client you do is your mom. So I did my mom's house up in Daytona, and she spread our word like wildfire up there, and so really jumped us off. So I ended up buying the Daytona territory, just wanted to protect it because I was getting a lot of work up there through word of mouth. And then we end up getting our largest project, right at the end of our first year. And it was in our. In the south Orlando territory, which was also a Greenfield. Nobody had ever. I, wasn't buying them from another business owner or anything. It was just open territory. So purchased that territory from the franchise, and then in 20, late 2022, early 2023, we expanded down the east coast of Florida all the way down to, through, West Palm Beach. So. So it's been a lot. And all Greenfield territory. Never. They all were okay in those areas before we started.

How many did you end up buying then?

so we own seven territories now. So four along the coast of Florida, and then, well, five across the coast of Florida, and then the two here in Orlando. So big continuous area.

Cool.

You quit your job to start a new business and then did it

So that's interesting. You. You, like, quit your job and then did it. You didn't. You didn't have, like, starting the new business while you were working somewhere at the same time. There was no overlap.

There was no overlap. There was two, weeks sitting in my pool waiting for SBA funding to come in so I could start and turn the lights on, so that there's actually not even. Was there not an overlap? There was a gap while we were waiting for LLCs to get created and. And all the paperwork to happen so we could start. Start operating.

I utilized a rollover for small business with a 401k to help fund the business

So how hard.

How hard was it to get the SBA funding?

That was probably the Trickiest. So, we can go into funding conversations, but I utilized a rollover for small business with a 401k to help fund the business as well as an SBA loan. the SBA loan during COVID was there were a lot of people going out and starting businesses or needing SBA loans to keep their businesses running. So the SBA was way back up. It took probably three to four, four months to actually get that all sorted. we're actually working with the franchise was nice because I don't know how publicly it's supposed to be, but at the time they kind of deferred some franchise fees and startup costs that were being paid to them while the SBA loaning was coming in. But, it, you know, all worked out, and the day I got my loan, that all got settled, so it worked out well.

Cool.

Jones says Orlando was a great market for home service businesses, especially exterior

Well, and then you mentioned, like, was there a. Was there a number where you're like, okay, like, we're gonna, we're gonna try this? Yeah, like, I, you know, everyone wants to make as much money as possible, but there's always a, like, if we can just do this.

I quit. I quit my job on a pro forma, you know, Excel spreadsheet of, like, project cost. And it probably only had maybe 14 cells and three equations filled out. And the final revenue, I think, was something like $280,000 was my first year goal. And I was like, man, if I can do $280,000, like, we're on easy street, baby. You know, keep it running. And, so we got started and we get. Continue getting into it, but, I guess I'm a little more competitive than I thought I was going to be. And they're like, oh, yeah, you know, the top franchisee in the first year did, you know, around 700,000 in their first year. And I was like, great, I'm 701. I got to beat that. And then, as a lot of, you know, Covid was a 2020 was a great time for home service businesses, especially exterior. And so Orlando was an excellent market. A lot of things aligned and, we ended up actually doing over a million in revenue in our first year. Spent more than that to do a billion in advertising and kind of operation startup cost. And, you know, it was kind of my thought to the business once I got rolling and realizing that a, lot of people want to buy landscape lighting, which, I don't know, I quit my job for it, but actually surprised me how much landscape lighting work there is out there. And so my Thought immediately was like, okay, well, if I want to be this business owner, I'm not going to try to do this nice slow growth and take little profits over time. It's like, I want to run this thing as close to break even as possible and grow as fast as we can. And then when I want to turn the profit on now I've got a big area under the car curve that, we're just, you know, profitable and able to reinvest that in the business or take its profits, which is the goal.

So, I mean, a million a year. I mean, there's, there's a lot of lighting companies that have been around like 10 years, 20 years that still haven't hit that number. I mean, you're like, wait, what, so what did you do? I mean, you said you did you spend more than a million, like you didn't make any money.

Yeah, so we, we spent about 1.1 our first year. so, you know, we were about 100,000 in the hole after the first year.

Does that mean you paid yourself, though?

I did pay myself. I took, I think I took a 50,000 a year salary, which was less than I was making as an engineer. But it was what my family needed for us to kind of, you know, make all of our, family costs. I had two kids at home and mortgage and all that other good stuff. So, that was the amount. So after that you could say 50,000 in the whole after.

Yeah. Do you remember how much that was in advertising? How much you spent to put your name out there and brand and all that?

Yeah, we spent, I want to say the first year was around 130,000 in advertising, maybe even more. Maybe more like 160. it was over 10% over revenue by a lot. And then, you know, it was just part of that too, was. And it's something I believe a lot in for certain type of business owners and the way you can be successful is when you're looking at. And doing checking, account book balancing is terrible. You don't want to look at your checking account. And that's how you balance your books and plan for the business. But when you're looking at your checking account on a Wednesday and going, oh, man, I hope Ms. Jones check comes into my tomorrow, because I got payroll on Thursday, you know, being paid out Friday. And these numbers don't work right now with that. You know, that auto draft is coming out one way or another, and it just makes you hungry. And so I don't think I've ever Lost that because you go enough, you know, years where that's your pit of your stomach. Every Wednesday is like, oh, my God, payroll's coming up. And these guys, you know, it's one thing to fail on a credit card or a vendor payment, but, like, your employees have to get paid. They got their own mortgage and. And, you know, their own family cost that they have to make. So, that just makes you hungry. It's like, there's not a chance we're gonna miss payroll ever, and we never have, which was actually. It's just. You gotta grind it. You got to make that happen.

Did you. Did you make your own payroll or, like, did you make it for the other guys, but you didn't pay yourself or you were able to pay yourself every month?

Yeah, there were a couple months or, you know, we paid weekly. So there are a couple of weeks that. Fair amount of weeks I wouldn't get paid a, couple weeks. I think twice we turned into our personal savings to kind of carry the balance, to make. To make payroll happen. So sometimes it was even, you know, a reverse paycheck, which is not fun. but that's part of, I think, what makes you. I run that way now. I mean, we're a much larger company now. We've got over 20 employees that get paid every Friday. And, you know, our bank account hasn't been close to missing payroll in a couple years now, luckily. But that feeling happens every week for me still.

Every successful person that I talked to had to make hard decisions

And it's like, you know, I'll look two or three weeks out and be like, wow, we're light. We got to go sell some jobs. Got to keep these guys moving.

Yeah, that's cool. I, I'm just trying to. I. I feel like with what you've done, trying to, like, put together, like, the, I guess the pattern, you know? Like, every successful person that I talked to, there was a moment in time or a period of time where, like, they had to make the hard call. They had to do the hard thing. They had to sacrifice. They had to spend 15% of their projected revenue. Like, you're spending 150 grand. I mean, so let's call it 12 grand a month. Not knowing if you're gonna make a hundred thousand dollars that month. I mean, it's. It's literally risk. And most people that are, man, I want to do what Travis is doing. I want, like, how did he do that? It's like, well, he just told you, like, you're gonna have to take some risk. And most. There's Never a successful person that's like super conservative in their decisions.

Yeah. And there's decisions from that first year that I can look back on. I was like, oh, there, there was the $50,000. Like, you know, either advertising that didn't work out, which were all contract based ads we ran. We had a data mining company we went to that was supposed to do some, some geotargeting on social media ads that didn't get rolling properly. So employees that didn't work out or weren't as successful as you'd hope they were during the interview. So there was definitely like, that money was there, you know, that you can look back and say, hey, that business could have been profitable on that first year or broke even at least.

You know, setting goals can make a huge difference in your business

and so I think you actually had a great point of, you know, setting goals and establishing, you know, what do you want on your intro? I actually wrote down a handful of notes from your intro because I thought they were all great. And, and it's amazing that pivot in our business when we went from being reactive and being surprised that every time we won a job having that like, oh, man, I can't believe somebody bought from me. That's awesome. I got some work for tomorrow. And instead that, like, no, we have a $60,000 goal this month. We have to go get it. We're gonna do this type of advertising. We're gonna remind our CRM for contacts that haven't done work with us yet. And, and then I had a great business coach starting out that her whole thing was like, as soon as I start getting close to the goal, she's like, okay, that goal's gone now. It's now 10% more. That goal stinks. You're not going to be. We're not celebrating that one anymore. Now you got to go get this one that's higher. And I, remember that having that goal of a million dollars in our first fiscal year. And I sold a job in November and I was like, all right, that's the job. If we get, once we get that job through our production, we'll be at a million dollars and like, you know, ready to celebrate. I give her a call and she's like, oh, Your goal is 1.1. You got three more weeks left in the year to go add, ah, an extra 100,000. Go make that happen. we didn't quite get to that, that. But it was like that mentality of being like, okay, celebrate, but you're not stopping. That's not, that wasn't the Real goal. Let's, let's go harder. made a huge difference.

Yeah, that's way cool. I mean, I think I, I learned it somewhere along the line. Like just have a short term memory when it comes to sales because you do want to celebrate. But the natural reaction, again, we're human, so it's like, like we just want to be comfortable. That's really what we want. And so like, if you sell like a couple hundred thousand dollars in a month, your natural reaction is to be like, dude, we're good.

Buy a new truck, you know, yeah.

We'Ll spend some money, take an extra vacay, like, I deserve it. You could justify that all day long. But if you're like, no, like, what could we do to do 250, what could we do to do 300 and same thing. If you're having a slow month, it's not like, well, it's always like this, you know, the economy out, and back to school. August is always slow. It's like, that's right. August is always slow. So what are you going to do?

Yep.

To get it to be a spring or a fall month, you know.

Yeah, August is slow because there's a problem we need to go figure out how to solve it. You know, different types of work. We haven't solved that problem yet. August typically is a low month for us. we actually had a riper of in August and September this year. And it's, it's just kind of the way things lined up. But it's not shutting down or take. Okay, it's slow in the summer, so I'm gonna take extra vacation. It's like, okay, well, it's slow in the summer because there's a problem to solve. Let's, let's go build those systems, figure out how to change our messaging with our advertising or start door knocking or re. You know, we do a lot of maintenance program. Maintenance, ah, programs are a huge part of our business. And so every beginning of the summer it's like, all right, that's a maintenance audit. So we don't want people doing new projects. So let's sign people up on our maintenance program and get some revenue that way and keep the guys moving, doing refreshes. So. Because, maintenance always turns into add ons. So that's a good way to, to keep some revenue going.

Well, and that's the thing, like when I, when I go off on my little rants or whatever, it's like, no, I realize that August legitimately is, I mean, you can look at any landscape lighting business, it's never their best month, right?

Yeah.

And in Florida, it's, it's even worse. Like half or more than half the state leaves, you know what I mean? So, like, there's real issues, but this is why I'm like, oh no. What is the solution? Well, you can get in with a referral partner who's a home builder, a pool builder, an interior designer. Like all these projects, they're going on year round regardless of the economy, regardless of how hot it is outside all that stuff. So you get in with those types of things and what it does, it minimizes that dip, still might go down, probably won't be your, your top producing month of the year. But instead of dropping to like 20,000 or 40,000amonth, it might be 120 instead of 250 or whatever it is, you know, just minimize the mistakes.

Yeah, there's a great example I heard, it was some business book that I read back probably in 21 or 22. And it kills me that I can't remember where this came from. But it was a guy who owned, a large asphalt and paving company was an example in the book. And he talked about how he was not productive for eight hours of the day. Lots of time managing employees and things like that. But when he was trying to be productive, he tried to do $1,000 an hour task. So he wanted to do a task that at minimum earned him a thousand dollars an hour for that hour. And that seems crazy. It seemed crazy when I first read it because, shoot, I'll do a thousand dollars. That sounds great. Thousand dollars an hour is a pretty good deal. But his example was he was dreading a call with one of his gravel suppliers. And so he called the gravel supplier and over a 15 minute phone call, negotiated like a 3% reduction in their material cost. Things like, well, I'm buying so much gravel and that's continuous forever, you know, that task right there, it only took him 15 minutes, was probably a $50,000 an hour task to make that phone call. And so during those slow times it's like, okay, well we're not making the revenue necessarily, so let me go knock out some big thousand dollars per hour tasks by developing some systems or, creating new marketing, looking deep diving to our marketing, going to networking events. The networking event's a great example. You spend a couple hours a month in the right event, maybe with home builders or other trades, and those can turn into six figure a year partnerships that go on for as long as you maintain them. So sometimes it's not necessarily about like, okay, what revenue is coming in? And the month of August, it's like, well, what are you doing in August to push the revenue for the next 12 months? And I think that's a great mental shift to have.

Love that. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I can't think of a better way to grow a lighting business than to do what you just said, because you can go knock on doors. And I, I did that too. And it's just one project at a time.

Yeah, I do it still.

Travis Hogue is the owner of Outdoor Lighting Perspectives

I, I think I shared at the Lighting Scene Secrets summit. You know, one of the things I do is every now and then when I'm driving around, if I'm running errands or sales on the weekend or whatever, if I'm driving through some of these nice neighborhoods. And, I'll, I, it, it kills me to see a beautiful home that needs our service, that has existing lighting that's maybe not maintained or not proper. And especially when the lighting is not like, it's on in the middle of the day, it's noon, and one of the lights is pointing at the road, and it's bright. I'll just pull over and I'll knock on my, that client's door or that person's door, and I'm just like, hey, I'm Travis with Outdoor Lighting Perspectives. You've seen our vans driving around. This is killing me over here. I don't even need your contact info. Like, can I show you how to fix timer real quick? And we'll just get this sorted and you know, that turns into projects every now and then. They're like, oh, yeah, this has been a problem of mine forever. And you do this thing for m free. Next thing you know, you're swapping, you know, business card or doing a proposal on spot. It's happened a couple of times. It's just like, can't help myself, you know?

I love it, dude. I love it. The older I get, I, I know people are like, dude, you're like, the older I get, they think the crustier and harder I get. And like, I'm just like, not, not as, you know, sensitive or whatever, but I'm like, yeah, because, like, you could just go do what Travis just said. Like, there's always ways, like, there, it might be hard, right? It's not going to be easy, but there's always ways to not fail.

I think one of the other things that, is one of our admins last year told me, so I'm Lucky, my younger brother, also an engineer, is my operations manager here in Orlando. And that was amazing to be able to hire a family member, especially someone I love as much as my brother. And having this business also support his family is excellent. And so bringing him in and things seem to go our way a lot. And so our admin was like, oh, it's the Hogue luck. And it's like, okay, I had one thing work out but you didn't see the nine in the background that are I'm trying to develop or in the seven that you know, turned into dead ends. So yeah, it might seem like luck, but it's because you're not seeing everything that's going on in the background. It's, there's a lot, you know, a lot of plates spinning and trying to find out which ones need to keep spinning in which you can let hit the floor. And yeah, it was really funny having her so lucky. It's like, oh, I don't know. Glad it looks like that.

You're lucky. You're so lucky you bought all those territories and spent all that money on advertising and risked everything.

Yeah, pretty lucky, pretty lucky. but no, it's, it's been great. Our yeah, our operation here had some great employees that we've hired. it really does take a team and having great people, on your side. Luckily this summer was actually able to. My wife was able to quit her job. She was a national director of advertising. She came into our business to help on our marketing side and help in the office. I said my brother works here, which is incredible. And then We've got near 20 employees additionally off that, between technicians and admin and sales and it's cool, it's really cool to have all that going on.

Sweet.

Love: How did you know when to go into new markets

Well, one of the things that can happen and I think you guys are in this state right now where you get some momentum, you get economies of scale, you're able to kind of have your office do things for different territories and stuff like that. And so I want everyone to get to that point. Like it's really hard to run like a million dollar lighting business because like, but if you really want to run it right, it's going to cost you 1.1 million. You know what I mean? Like, there's just a lot of people and resources that you need. But if you can get it up to these higher revenue amounts, the profit can actually increase. So how did you, like, how did you know when to go into these new markets? Were you like, I Don't care. I'm just going to take the risk. And like, I think that's what people are afraid of, is like, well, I don't even have my system together and now I'm supposed to go into this new market. Like, how did you have the courage to do that?

that's a great question. I think it was just like what we were doing in Orlando, first with Orlando north and then Daytona was having such traction and growing. And then, with the way our outdoor Lining perspectives works, basically you buy a territory, but you're free to work outside that territory as long as you're not in another OLP territory. So I was kind of like, on this island and I didn't have any territories around me. And as I started working, we were getting clients, like in South Orlando. And so it kind of became a thing of like, well, I want to protect myself in that territory. I don't want. I don't want that territory to be sold to another franchisee. And now we're splitting Orlando between, you know, me and a. Not really a competitor because I'm not allowed to compete with that person. And so I said, okay, well, I need to buy that territory to go ahead and protect myself there. And if I was an independent lighting company, we just, we've been doing business there and, you know, there wouldn't be that territory purchase item. the big jump was jumping down to West Palm, and opening that office down there. And that was kind of a couple of different things. I brought on a partner, Kenny Coffin, who owned Outdoor Lighting Perspectives of Charleston, Columbia, S.C. and him and I were talking during a franchise event and he said, I want a part of Florida. So I brought him into Orlando as a partner and then together we went and purchased the territories down towards West Palm Beach. And I had a great, lead technician in Orlando that we could tell was going to want more. And so, name is John. And John was doing awesome here in Orlando and was really kind of running into that number two position with Corey operating Orlando. And we said, hey, John, we got an opportunity. We want to buy this market. This works if we can move you down there. So he agreed to move. We put him into a position where he was actually going to earn ownership of that office, similar to Corey has here in Orlando. So actually earning partnership in the company.

Like, earn actual equity, actual equity without, without them coming out of their wallet 100% sweat equity.

So, put him down there, gave him a piece of it and said, this is, you know, this is yours to earn. And, And John's been doing great. And. And that having someone like that, that you can trust, that also has some ownership in it, I think was a big part of what made that successful. And then, of course, earlier this year, Kenny took a step back out of outdoor lighting perspectives to go to the manufacturing side, which is super exciting, and, love having that for him. And so we've bought him back out of the business here in Florida. And, yeah, it's been great. And still close friend and business coach and life coach and just generally a great person. And now I'm also a vendor.

He's okay. Yeah, he's okay.

Yeah, we don't.

We don't need his head getting any bigger. Love you.

takes extra large ball caps, you know.

Yeah, we. We had to order bigger hats for him. well, I mean, those are big things, though. Like, I'm thinking, okay, buy.

Buying a new territory, taking on a partner. That's scary stuff

Buying a new territory, taking on a partner. I mean, dude, that's. That's scary stuff. What, did you. Did you just go in blindly? Did you, like, hire attorneys? How. How did you figure this stuff out? Was it just because you had a relationship? I mean, there's. There's partnerships that work, and there's partnerships that don't, so. Wondering how this one worked?

Yeah, it, Shoot. Was the worst deal someone could possibly make from an attorney's perspective. It was like handshake, small forms, for our partnership down into Southport. I mean, when we first were buying that territory, it's like, all right, we'll be 50, 50 partners, and they change attorneys. Like, someone's got to be 51. Like, you got to be able to Over. Someone's got to be able to overrule. If you guys end up, you know, at an impasse, and it's like, no, this needs to work with both of us, so we got to go and do it like this. and I don't know, my kids call him Uncle Kenny. So, like, how bad can it be getting in with someone like that? So, you know, it's, Yeah, terrible business idea. Don't do that or take legal advice from that there. But it did work out really well. I guess maybe it is some hoag luck of just trusting the gut. And, you know, I think another big part of this, I learned also from my. My first business coach was being able to say yes or make decisions quickly. That's been a big part of our success. I think I do a really good job of analyzing choices and being able to quickly come up with a yes or no and either not waste time with something or go all in and. And make sure to see it all the way through. And that being said, really, is setting up a good team that can see it through. I think I'm a little too ADHD to actually see most of the projects through, but I can get them enough where I can hand them off to somebody and say, hey, I need you to go finish this and implement it. And, that's been a bit of a superpower, I guess.

Yeah. No, I love that. I think most people are afraid to do that. I mean, when you look at. When we get on the phone with people to join Landscape Lighting Secrets, or when I see them saying, I don't know, should I go to this event? It's 350 doll. Is it worth it? I'm like, I mean, you, you. It, might not be worth it. You don't know. Unless you buy the $350 ticket and go and spend two days or whatever it is. It's like, again, you. You gotta make decisions quickly. And if it's no, it's no. It's just like, okay, move on. But if it, if it. There's no maybe, it's like, just do it. And then if worse, this is how I live my life. Worst case scenario, I'm wrong. I'll. I'll spend $50,000 a year now on a business coach. And, like, I'll. I'll buy. I just bought a $20,000 sales, training program. I buy all this stuff and, like, it's not all awesome. Some of it, I'm like, that was not worth 50 grand. That was not worth 20. But I always find out, like, okay, how to squeeze out the, like, the $20,000 worth or whatever. And it's like, well, okay, it didn't work. So what am I going to do to, like, now pay for that mistake? There's always a way out.

No, and I think that's, you know, something that's a bit inspiring or, or thinking of how you get value back out of things.

Business owner versus artist conversation discussed at Orlando lighting summit

So I think a great conversation, at the secret, summit, was that the business owner versus artist conversation. And so, you know, the conversation was m. Most of us in lighting, we're in it because we love lighting. I love, I love our projects. It's incredible to see our work and, and surprise our client. Actually. I love hearing when the client's like, wow, I didn't think it would look like this. It's like, man, you gave me $20,000 and didn't think it was going to look like this, like, okay, cool, pretty. you know, I guess I could have charged more, but to get that response or you know, to have that artistic look. But the neat part about when you do focus on the business and build systems is you can have a business that's running in the background. And we're right there at the tipping point here with, with Outdoor Lighting Perspectives in Orlando where our sales team and operations team is selling and operating the business in a profitable way where it's keeping the lights on. You were able to service clients that are doing $2,500 projects or $1,500 add ons or $300 service calls and you know, 20, $50,000 new installs and everything in between. But for me now it's at the point where I get to hand, hand pick clients and I can say, you know, hey, this is a lead or this is a marketing thing I want to do and develop a client and then really handhold the projects that I want. which is, is really a point of privilege to say that I recognize that's not normal in this business, but that should be what people are aspiring to do. you know, Greg Matthews was incredibly inspiring. I talked to him and his, his ah, general manager, Stephanie and you know, really got a lot from them on, you know, kind of that whole thing of being the artist side of the business, but then also trying to have a business in the background that's profitable and servicing our clients well. So it's, it's a, it's a tough thing to battle with. And I still don't quite think we're doing both at the same time. But that's kind of, I guess the main goal is how can I do both.

Yeah, well, I think, I can't remember how the question was worded. I think it came from Paul Val. It was like, what, what's going to help you make more money faster? Being better at business or being a better lighting designer?

Yep.

And it was like, okay, put, put it on a. They asked me, I don't know if it was like, it was like either or. But it was like on a, on a spectrum, on a scale. And they're like, is it like 90% 1 and 10%? Is it 50, 50? Do you remember? Like what would you say? Is it more business or more lighting design? What, what percentages I.

And it's gonna sound so bad. We've had some designers and salespeople in my, that worked in my office that could talk Clients into sales and we made it right and made it work out. But they were not good designers. You know, they were leaning pretty heavily on the back ground. You know, they would sell a job and myself or Corey or, or one of our lead techs would look at it and be like, oh my gosh, like okay, well that isn't going to look great. And you know, we would kind of run interference in the field before it got installed. We would fix it, you know, and make sure that the right thing got installed. So I think the point with that is that I don't think you have to be an artist to sell. You know, it's really just about being a good salesperson and then having those good sales systems and you need clients to sell. So being a good business owner, where you know how to go get leads, how to chase them down, how to get them through that client experience and then sell them something, you know, you might not get great reviews and people might not like your work. But there's a lot of companies around, not lighting, but just in general home service businesses that survive and do terrible work. So I think it's ah, you know, not to throw shade at the roofing industry but like look at most roofing company reviews.

Let's do it, let's go after them.

Yeah, yeah. But it's like wow, okay, that, that looks, that looks cutthroat and hard to manage and you know, but it's a, you know, a roofing company that's sponsoring you know, the cabanas at the local college, you know, arenas. So it's like, okay, well they're obviously making enough money to spend $50,000 a year marketing roofing company. so yeah, it's, it's. I think the business ownership definitely earns you money quicker. I think having that those artists having the design training, being able to manage those, you know, 50,000 to six figure projects and successfully execute them is what also really elevates your company to you know, nothing helps a profit problem like a, a hundred thousand dollar project. You know, it's. And, and that I think takes some artistry.

Yeah, I know, I think I won't tell you what my answer is right now, but I I think we're gonna do an episode, we gotta do an episode where we get like a bunch of us on and we debate that back and forth like which, what's, what's the right percentage? But I, I think the reason, because you mentioned it like, and if you're in landscape lighting, you have that artistic draw. Like, there's just something about it. Like, we love. We love when people say, man, I, I didn't know it was going to look this good. Like, that's, that's very fulfilling. And so. But look how many struggling, you know, starving artists are out there. I mean, it's not. It's not the industry known for making a lot of money. You want to make a lot of money, you're gonna be a roofer. You know, you're going to be @h vac, you're gonna be in something else. So, yeah, that gives you a hint at what my answer is.

Yeah, I believe you. So, m. You know, I think a big thing too, kind of on the business side and strength that if I could give some advice, it's always something I did maybe three months in, was, really analyzed like local competitors and said, okay, what are they failing at? I just find photos of their work online. It's like, okay, well, obviously their works great. Got some competitors here that have been nationally recognized for lighting projects and won awards. And I've, gotten to know the owners and they're very successful artists. The artistry side is not the problem. And I was new, I was three months in the industry. I didn't know exactly what I was doing. I was still trying to figure out what fixtures to use and go through our franchise training and sift through what worked best in my market. But, we took some time to go look at our competitors and say, okay, well, let's make a list of a couple of bullet points of things we don't think they're doing at 100%. And so in our market, one of the early things we pointed out was reviews. You mentioned you need the five star reviews at the beginning of the show. And so I was like, all right, well, we're going to sell lights and we're going to be artists and we're going to run a successful business, but we're going to be a review machine. So that was like one of our first systems. Like, okay, how do we create a review monster? I want a review from every person that makes eye contact with us. And so we really sat down and, I talked to some great business owners in the area that had great advice on. Actually, I looked around at companies that had tons of five star reviews and I just called them and I asked for the operations owner. I'm like, how are you doing this? And, got some great advice from them on different systems they had in place to make the reviews automatic. And so, I can pretty confidently say we're not going to be caught in Orlando. We're right around 300 reviews in five years and five stars, five star rating. So it's in, you know, 293.

Guys. He only needs seven more. Let's get him to 300.

We'll be at 300 probably the end of next week

Yeah, yeah, we'll be at 300 probably the end of next week. right now, our review, we're getting between 4 to 10 reviews a week right now.

That's awesome, man.

Yeah, it's. And that was just like, okay, let's figure out how to do that. And that was a business problem to solve. That wasn't a, there was no artistry in that.

Very cool.

What else are you doing to grow the business? Marketing is key

what else are you doing to grow the business? I mean, five star reviews obviously help, what's working for? Marketing.

Yeah. So I think like most people we've seen print marketing. The way that we've done it traditionally is down. We do a lot of marketing. We actually handle a lot of our print marketing in house. So we do a lot of every door direct mailers. we send out around 3,000 pieces of every door direct mail a week out of this office. And so that's been our best print marketing, return. But it's still not our best marketing return. Most of our online marketing. And really if there's a way to spend money online with marketing our business, it's being spent. So SEO, Google, my business, Facebook, you know, anything, any of The Meta Suite, LinkedIn, you know, we're, we're investing heavily in all of that. but I do think that there's some success out there, especially for smaller companies where you can do more hand holding. I think deeply analyzing who your clients are and you don't have to necessarily go out and buy a list. you know, you can cruise around the neighborhoods that you want to do work in and kind of look around and try to find the homes you want to the projects that are out there and try to think of how do you directly engage that homeowner. And so we've got a couple things I can give out, but we've got a couple of ways we've been doing that here in Orlando. Just started a couple weeks ago.

That's sweet.

And had a lot of success. I'm actually, waiting on a call back for a six figure project that we have a call scheduled that client right after I finish with this. So yeah, I love it. It's you know, for a, for a $5 lead, you know, cost five bucks to get in contact with them. So there's, there's lots of cool ways to, to generate business.

Yeah, we, we, we had a competitor that was, I mean we, we started to be kind of like the bigger dog in Dallas Fort Worth. There was, there was other big companies, you know, but we, we were like a nobody to like a, somebody. And then a new company came into town and like, I was like, who. How did they get that job? I mean like a big ass job and their, their yard signs out in front. I'm like, dude, that's my, that's like my home turf. I mean that just like, that's make. Make makes you sick. Like, how did, how did they get that? And then you find out and just like, wow, like, they just, they were just more like resilient. They were just like trying harder than me, you know, like, they just figured stuff out. Was literally just a mailer, a letter to him. And I'm like, gosh, like, kills me.

With that is when you get a call from somebody and they're like, man, I've been looking for a company like yours forever. And I'm like, dude, I sent seven pieces of mail to your house every single year for the past four years. Like, what are you talking about? I've been here at my van drives by your house every other week. You know, like, it's, we've been here, not looking very hard, but it's that right time, right place. So I would also say that's a, in our industry that is a little bit of a benefit of, you know, if you want to get into a little bit of the franchising versus independent, we get a lot of leads through people that move and used an outdoor lighting perspectives in another market. So, or people that have vacation homes. So for us, like our West Palm market has a lot of clients that have homes in the Hamptons. And so the outdoor lying perspectives franchisee up there, Andy, him and I are close and you know, there's leads that go back and forth and we cross market each other's clients and let each other know, hey, we did your home in West Palm. I don't know if you have a home up in New Jersey, or up in the Hamptons, but if you do, and we've already checked, here's an email. And you know, we're trying to make that introduction to make it happen. So that's kind of a neat, a neat way to handle that as well.

Yeah, well, even if you're not like Handing it off directly. I could see that they're like, oh, we used OLP here. We moved to Colorado, whatever. There's probably one here. Google it. And they. They get a lead just because of that brand.

Yeah, that happens a fair amount too. And. And, it's always fun because then I'm always calling the other owner and I'm like, hey, do you remember, you know, Ms. Smith?

How did that go?

Or, you know, what was her budgets like? Was she a stickler or, you know, what does she like? we had a client recently that came from the South Carolina market, and I called the owner up there and he's like, oh, man, she loves turtles. She's gonna. You're gonna get there. She's definitely gonna have a turtle statue in the yard somewhere. She, you need to light that up. Picture color, changing lighting, put it on the turtle, that job is sold. And, and he was right.

We.

She had three turtles in the yard. We lit all of them up. She, you know, is a pretty reasonable sized property. And, but it's just nice having that kind of end where it's like, oh, this is, you know, this is what you want to do. And that was pretty cool.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

as you look back and think about, like, you said, like, oh, that first year, I probably could have done this different. I could have done that different. We all. We all have those things. I don't view those as, failures. I think they're just learning moments. But is there anything that you're like, yeah, this is like, it really comes down to, like, I would have hired this person sooner. I would have. Is there. Is there a certain move that we could share with others that's like, this is going to be the thing that helps you get unstuck from where you're at?

Yeah. you know, I think something. I see a lot of lighting companies, even within our franchise system, even though they hear from me and others, trying to tell them you're trying to fix this.

One of your most important first hires is your admin. It is incredible the revenue that an admin can bring

one of your most important first hires is your admin. Your first admin. It is incredible the revenue that an admin can bring to your business and how much stress a good administration can take off your plate as the owner, it's having someone consistently answering the phone that is personable. you know, when I first started and, our admin, Sarah, she's still. Still with us now, and she was one of my first hires. And to go to a client's house and they're like, oh, I own my own small Business. I love Sarah on the phone. You're so lucky that I like you and your company because I would poach her if I didn't like, like your service so much.

Oh, that's sweet.

And it's like, you know, having that, having that response and then having someone that's driven in that position where they're doing your, your maintenance audit, they're following up with holiday clients, they're following up with expired proposals, they're doing your accounts receivable. There's so many tasks that, that they can do. And it's a real expense. I mean an admin should be, you know, between 40 and 55,000 ish for kind of an entry level admin a year, for total salary. but they, you know, that can be a lot for business that's making 500,000 in revenue. But an admin is what's going to help take that 500,000 revenue business to 800,000 just because of following up on leads that you're already paying for. You know that that's another part you're paying so much in marketing, but if you're not answering the phone, you're not getting back to people quickly, you're lighting that money on fire. You might as well just have less leads, maybe try to focus on having a little bit better leads, but you know that you can handle. But not as many because if you're not answering the phones, then why are you trying to get the phone to ring? So, I think that's probably somewhere where, we could have done better, saved some money, was, was having that position, hired a little sooner and, and you know, really, really made good use of that. I think the other thing that's important too is trying to manage your manpower properly and really watch your overhead expenses. Well, we spent a lot of money on overhead growing because I was buying and trying to set up a business that was what I wanted it to be, not what it was today. But I did a lot of that purchasing too quickly. And so there was a lot of like, you know, you're paying a lease on a van that's sitting in the driveway most days, it's like, oh, that kind of stinks. It'd be better to have that money to do marketing or towards an admin or something else. So, and then I think lastly is, knowing your pricing. I look back at what we sold jobs for for the first six months of being in business and I was given the dang fine arm away. You know, it just I couldn't believe that people were willing to pay what they were willing to pay for our product and our expertise. And so I thought the way we got business as a contractor was to try to be competitive. And the way I knew to be competitive was to lower my price. And, I think that was helpful at the very, very beginning with establishing some clients and word of mouth and getting into neighborhoods and getting that referral base. Business, business. But I definitely took too long to raise our pricing. I was actually listening, either to a YouTube video of yours or a podcast that you did, or I think at that time in 2020, it was probably an email that I got from, from, Landscape Lighting Secrets, and it talked about raising your price. And I was in the car at stoplight and pulled our CRM out and I just, like, blanketed, you know, 10% increase across the board, to all of my.

That's crazy.

And I was driving to a consult, and at that consult, I presented the guy with the new pricing. He's like, oh, yeah, sounds good. Hands a check. And I'm like, dang, I just made an extra, you know, 1200 bucks on that job because I read your email and changed my pricing in the car. And, that was all profit. You know, the job didn't get any harder. It just was priced differently. Dude, that's epic. And, and that was. It was good because back then when our prices were cheap, we were not a profitable business. So, yeah, you know, we were giving it away, but not for any good reason. So I think those are probably three things that, looking back, I would have either done sooner or changed for sure.

That's cool. I only take, I don't know, I just changed my price. I only take 20% of that 1200. I, think it's cool to hear your perspective because, like, these are all the things that I went through. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think we're that unique of business owners and people. It's like, it's a lighting business. We're all going to have the same roadblock. So I'm really hoping people are not just, like, getting inspired by what you're talking about, but, like, writing it down and then like, okay, so what are you going to do? Are you going to hire your admin? If. Okay, I can't afford it. What are you going to do to be able to afford it? Because it's not an expense, it's an investment. Like you said, like, well, maybe they can't afford it at 500 grand. Well, they can eight and they can't get to eight unless they have someone answering the phone, returning the phone calls, following up with leads. so there's just gold that you're, that you're giving them here.

I quit my job to go into this business because I did light

I think there's also a thing there of the, the difference between owning a job and owning a business. And it's something I didn't understand when I first started. But you know, I, I quit my job to go into this business because I did light. I, I loved lighting and I still love lighting and I love what we do and I think it's a really cool service and it was something really niche that I actually didn't know a lot about when we started started. And on my first install at my mom's house, it's started, this business also in July, which is great time to start a business that's outside in Florida. And I remember laying on the driveway, trying to pull the pavers out so I get the wiring across the driveway. I just bought a core drill, so I was trying to do that. I, luckily it's my mom's house, I chipped the first paver. I'm like, dang it, you know, and this job, which now looking back, was probably 12 lights and it took me two days get home dirty, my arms are raw. I'm answering the phone from the SBA offices telling me there's more delays on our load and I'm like, oh my God, I quit an air conditioned job. I was working from home comfortably and getting paid and doing all this. And I was like, this sucks, this sucks. I do not want this job at all. And that was a pivotal point where it's like, this has got to be a business. This cannot be a job. I'm not going to be 20 years from now laying in someone's driveway with skinned up elbows and sunburned and you know, having to go to dermatologist twice a year for, you know, check me out, make sure there's no skin cancer. Like, I'm not, I'm not going to be that working outside for the next 20 years. So this has to be a business. Doesn't have to be a business today, but it does need to be a business soon. And that just really inspired me to go, okay, what learning. I was an engineer. I don't know how to run a business. So what do I need to do to learn how to get this to the next level? So, meeting you, hiring a business coach. I listen to every, I still listen to every Business podcast. You can think of driving to and from work every day and really trying to change it and say this. Being a business owner sucks as a job. So yeah, how can I pivot this? So it still sucks, but it's not me also having to install every single lighting project I ever sell. You know, how do I get systems and people that we can grow this into something that supports people and gives them a path to growth and is a real thing. And so I think that's that's important for someone to decide what they want and waking up tomorrow and doing the same thing you did today, it's going to leave you exactly where you are today. So it's got to look forward and make those goals and make that change happen.

Travis Hogue talks about being intentional and proactive versus reactive

That's awesome, man. Somehow you just weaved in the intro monologue about being intentional and proactive versus reactive like this, this is meant to be.

It's important. You know, I think that's something I've heard you talk about a lot and a lot. Every successful business owner you listen to at any talk they give, they talk about the business owner versus owning a job mentality. And it's so hard for that to soak in on people. And it's also so hard to do because you have to be intended, you know, it has to be on purpose. you know, my office still multiple times a week I've got time blocks on my calendar. Calendar where I'm not allowed to do consults or take meetings because it's a, you know, Travis Hogue working on the business two hour time block. Because if it's not there, it gets taken up by every little fire that you know, fire drill that comes up. So beautiful.

So they know like this is me working on the business.

Yep.

Don't come to me with a problem. If there's a customer, we'll solve it two hours from now. Yeah.

If you walk by my office and you see me on my phone scrolling Instagram, go yell at me type thing, you know, it's like gotta, like I'm researching. It's you know, look at lighting.

Sure. Social, media research.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. but yeah, that being intentional, it's so important. It's so important. And having ah, a bigger plan and then a reason for working towards it. I think that's a great summary and, and just keep that foot on the gas. you know, we're gonna be doing some big things this year in revenue wise and man, I still have my foot on the gas. Like we're not making Payroll. I. I just don't know why.

Well, it's a beautiful strategy. I like to wake up like, I'm broke every single day. I don't care what's in my checking account. It does not matter. Like, when you get to that mentality of, like, I gotta make an impact, then it actually becomes fun and it becomes easy, too. So it's really cool to see what you've done.

Yep. Solving problems and puzzles, you know, it's, it is. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun.

I think we gotta get this. I think we gotta get this on the air. You're. Right now, you're just known as one of the top outdoor lighting perspectives. But you. Is your goal to be the top?

Oh, yeah, we'll be. We'll be the top. Absolutely. There's not a question about it. We're. Like I said, put on the gas. There's actually so, you know, to shout out some other OLP owners. Bob Lyons over in Nashville runs amazing operations. Hugely inspiring. he's been the top for years and years and years. and I. I can't wait. I think he can't wait because it's the. The competitiveness that's kind of the fun thing about a franchise.

Like, come on, someone. You can't beat me. Like, this is.

Yeah, it can't be untouchable. but Bob does some awesome holiday stuff at the end of the year, so his numbers go from, like this to just like, a complete vertical shift for the last two months. So it's always hard to build up enough that he doesn't touch you in November. and then, Rick Norwood in Chicago. Excellent guy, awesome to speak with, and great advice from him. And he's taken the Chicago market and really, focused on that business over the past couple years. And he went from a not, on the list to trying to be the top dog also.

And sweet.

Love seeing that. Of course, Kenny, when he was here, he ran a great, great, operation. and then I'm missing so many others, but, you know, the Florida markets are amazing. and there's a lot of OLP guys, doing over a million in revenue. and that level of support is really, is really inspiring to be a part of. I think that's what kind of makes it fun and drives that push. So, yeah, but there's. There's some good competition up here at the top, but we'll be there. We're gonna make it happen.

I love it. I love it.

Travis shared some action items that you can implement in your businesses

All right, well, Travis, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to come on here, sharing your insights, providing us not just inspiration, but some action items and things we can do in our businesses. So really appreciate you, man.

Awesome. Well, thanks for having me. It's been great.

Yeah, no problem. All right, guys, that was easy part. Probably driving around now you just gotta implement. So find one or two things. Travis shared a lot, but one or two things that you can actually implement. Go make it happen. Get intentional. We're here for you. Have a good week, guys.