Lighting for Profits - Episode 220

Step into the mind of a true industry veteran - the Founder of Lighting BOSS, an AOLP Board Member, and an ILLI Graduate with nearly 20 years of experience. In this podcast, we’ll explore how artificial intelligence is shaping the future of the outdoor lighting industry, blending time-tested expertise with cutting-edge innovation to illuminate what’s next for lighting professionals.

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Episode Transcript

Welcome to Lighting for Profits, the number one landscape lighting show in Florida

Welcome to Lighting for Profits.

All light, All light. All light

Powered by EmeryAllen. Here is your host, Ryan Lee.

Oh, ah, light, all light, all light. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the number one landscape lighting show in Sarasota, Florida. Is that, is that where you're at, Ryan? I forgot we got rice. Ryan Jason, come to the show with lighting boss. I think he lives in Sarasota. So we're the number one landscape lighting show somewhere. if you're looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, then check it out. You are definitely in the right place. We got the lighting boss himself, a lighting boss, Mr. Ryan Jason. yes, he teased. We're going to talk about AI, we're going to talk about lighting, we're going to be nerding out on everything. Landscape lighting, outdoor lighting, AI, growing your lighting business, all this stuff. So I, hope you're excited for an awesome show. We're here to not only educate, not only motivate, but we want to help you dominate. So, thanks for, thanks, for your support guys. Appreciate it.

We're up to 88 five star reviews on Apple. com

We're up to 88 five star reviews on Apple. that's weird. That's weird that I only know 88 people that would give me a five star review. So let's get it to 89. I just want 100. I might stop asking if we get to 100. Who knows? as a quick reminder, I don't know if you checked your email yesterday or today, but you know how Christmas, like Christmas becomes sooner and sooner. Like you go to Home Depot, like It's like the 20. It was like the 5th of July. Suddenly Christmas decorations are out. Well, Light It Up Expo. We just launched our Black Friday special. Black Friday is not for like a week and a half but you know, we're just getting earlier and earlier. So if you're planning on coming to Light It Up Expo, it is the destination for all things outdoor lighting, landscape lighting, permanent lighting, holiday lighting. You can get a $325 off coupon right now. Just go to light it up expo. com. you get can use promo code Black Friday and hook yourself up. So that's good for a general admission or a VIP ticket. So if you're planning on being there, just go to lightitup expo. com if you're coming. Why pay more? Just get your hookup right now. but seriously, thank you guys so much for your support and I'm excited for Light It Up Expo. We're going to be talking a lot about it in the next Few months, we're going to be bringing on vendors, the sponsors, talking about our speakers that are going to be there and stuff like that. So, it's going to be an awesome, awesome show. again, in just a few minutes, guys, we got Mr. Ryan Jason, with Lighting boss. And I don't know if Ryan remembers this, but he was, my first official guest when we launched Lighting, for profits years, ago. And now we're on episode 220. Kind of hard to believe, but, so excited to have Ryan on. Get caught up.

Going from operator to owner and scaling your business can be difficult

And before we have him on, I want to talk about. I always, I'm m always talking about like, you know, replacing yourself and going from operator to owner and scaling your business. And I think some people have some resistance. Like, why would I scale my business? Why would I grow? Like, I'm more valuable as me. And to be honest, when I first started my business, I thought that too, because I actually believed the lie that my customers told me. They're like, oh, you're the owner. That's so cool that you're meeting with us. Oh, you're the owner. That's so cool. You're installing my lights. Oh, you're the owner. You answer my phone and that's cool. Like it works for a period of time, but when you start to get a little bit busier and then someone calls you and they can't get ahold of you, they don't think it's so cool anymore that you're the owner. When they need like maintenance on their lights and it's like takes two or three days just to respond to their phone call. Or maybe a week or two. They don't think it's cool anymore, right? And so I just remember being in that phase doing everything, answering the phones, doing the installs, doing the maintenance, doing the sales, doing the follow up, all the things. And one time I remember literally being in a tree. And maybe I've told you this story before, I was in a tree, missed a phone call, called the lady back and she's like, oh, hey, no, no worries. We got ahold of someone and they're coming out tomorrow to give us a bid. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, I'll just come out today. Like, what do you mean? I'll just give you a proposal. She's like, oh, no, we're good, you know, And I'm like, what? Like, doesn't everyone get three bids? Like, that's what the world told me, right? And so missing that phone call, at the time, our average job was like 4 or $5,000. So in my mind, I literally just lost 5k. And then I started doing the math. What about another phone call that I missed? Like, and those people never even answered the phone. I called them back five times and never answered. Right. So 5, 10, 15, 20. All of a sudden I have in my mind like $60,000 worth of jobs I didn't get. So instantly my mindset shifted from like, oh, I can't afford an office manager, to I can't afford not to have an office manager, right? And so when I hired this person, she was awesome. In fact, she did more than I was expecting. I was like, can you just answer the phone? And we get like four phone calls a day. And she's like, hey, is there anything else I can do? I could do this for you. I could help you finish this proposal. I could help you do this. I'm like, heck, yeah. Here's more, here's more, here's more. And, one day she came into the office and she goes, hey, I'm going out of town in, a couple months. And so how do I request time off? And I'm like, request time off? Carry the 1. 5, 6, 7, 8. Time off you don't get to take.

What?

What do you mean you want time off? Like, who's gonna answer the phone? And she's like, you are. I'm like, what? I don't know how to answer the phone. I forgot how to answer the phone. What do you mean? Like, not good at that anymore. And, you know what I did? I hired a second person to answer the phones. Now I. That time when she went out of town, I did answer the phones. And that's what I was like, I suck at this. I. I can't remember how to pre qualify. Didn't have a script. What do I say? What do I do? All these things, right? Forgot, how to schedule people. And so I literally, after that, I was like, okay, we're getting someone else. We're getting a backup for her so when she goes out of town, I'm not the backup. And, so then we ended up with an office manager and a receptionist. And another time, another time, we're busy. I mean, we're booked out weeks. And, a crew, literally the entire crew, a four man crew, walked off the job. They were pissed off at me, my brother, the world, everything. They just left. Not like one person quit. Like the whole crew quit because they're like cousins and Uncles and stuff like that. And I was like, So you know what I did? I went and did the install because we didn't have anyone for backup, right? So did the install for a few weeks. And then after that I hired another crew. And, that other crew was now my first crew, then immediately hired a second crew. And the reason I'm sharing this, the experience with my office manager and then my install team is because you need redundancy, okay? Redundancy is key if you want to build a business, okay? And most businesses are simply just jobs. We're like just self employed. We're not really entrepreneurs if we don't have redundancy.

When you have redundancy, your business becomes more valuable to the marketplace

and redundancy is like, okay, like the business is going to continue even if just one thing breaks. Cause there's something that's always going to break. Even if you're like the best business owner in the world, like, things break. You know what I mean? But if something, breaks, like, no problem, you lose a guy, no problem, you just hire someone else, someone's sick, no problem, just send someone else. that's redundancy, right? And not only will you not be the fill in person, like when you have redundancy because it's fine being in the field, but once you get out of the field, you're like, man, it's kind of nice. I don't have to do trenching anymore, you know? And then once you're done answering the phones, you're like, it's not that big of a deal. I answer my phone, it's not a big deal. But when you get someone to do it for you and then you have to go back and do it again, you learn, you realize it sucked the whole time. But you'll not only be the fill in person, your business will be more valuable to the marketplace. And I'm not even talking about enterprise value in terms of like how much you can sell it for, but value to your clients, to your prospects. And too many people think it's like a badge of honor to be like, yeah, you know, like, I show up, I do my own installs, you know, my clients like that. I'm the owner. It's like, well, you can keep believing that. And like I said, maybe there's a short period of time where that does make sense. But your clients will find more value knowing that their experience doesn't just depend on one person's expertise and one person being excellent all the time, okay? They value the fact that they can always get ahold of someone on the first try. They value professionalism. They value communication. They value that you're going to follow up, that you're going to confirm appointments with them. They value someone that can respond quickly and service their needs timely. So I just want to encourage you, and give you just that extra reason why this is why it's so important to get your business to the next level. And honestly, when you have redundancy, that's when business actually starts to become fun again. You know, when you first start your business, it's fun. Cause it's a honeymoon phase, and you're like, oh, this is cool, and blah, blah, blah. And I don't care if I'm broke and I work, like, crazy hours. Then after a while, it just starts to become pain in the ass, and you're like, gosh, should I just get a job? Well, if you can push through, build redundancy. Well, now, again, you're not the cleanup person. You're not the one that has to go do the thing. So you have redundancy now. You can work on the fun stuff. Your vision, your strategy. focus on things that move the needle, right? And that's what I want for everybody. why do I care so much? I don't know. Like, just quit. Like, don't build your business. Don't get redundancy. That's why. What I should say. But, like, I do care. And I think it's because I got stuck and trapped for so many years. It took me, I think it was two or three years that I answered my phone before I finally got an office manager. And I'm like, what was I thinking? Like, you don't need to wait that long. You know, you think you can't afford to do something. The reality is you can't afford not to. So I think it's, for me, it's just therapy. If I just go back in time, reach into your business, and, like, help you collapse time, get there faster, it's just very healing for me. So it's not for you, it's for me. Go do it. Grow your business. but anyway, get redundancy in your business. your future self. Well, thank you. For sure. what do we got here? Oh, yeah, Mic drop. What do we do? Hey, lighting fixtures are only half the equation. Finish your projects the right way with Emory Allen LED lamps. Built for quality, built to last. Trusted by lighting designers and installers around the country, and backed by decades of lighting expertise. Don't settle for less. Upgrade your designs and installations today with Emory Allen. Reach out to Tom Garber by emailing tom garyallen. com to learn more and take advantage of their contractor pricing. And hey, don't forget to mention lighting for profits. He'll hook you up with that discounted contractor pricing. Just email tomg@emory allen.

Ryan: You can't hold on to top talent unless you grow

All right guys, now the time, the moment we've all been waiting for. Let's get our guest coming. Are you ready? If you are here live, let's stump our guest. He, he asked for it. Let's put him in the hot seat. Let's get the music going. Foreign. Welcome to the show, Mr. Ryan J. So what's up, Ryan?

Man? It's awesome to be here. When was my last appearance? At least a year ago.

I should have looked it up. I suck at things sometimes and I.

Have not forgotten that I was number one. Even though I was bragging to my son about being number one. And we went to go back and look for it and we couldn't find it. Couldn't find the first three or four episodes.

So.

So, there's no historical record. I'm gonna need you to do something about that.

That, that is blasphemy. We, might just cancel the show to make sure that something is. No, it has to be there. Why would it not be there?

I don't know.

The first three episodes mysteriously gone stock to Darcy. Yeah, someone's getting fired. It's probably me.

You're number two.

I, I'm, I'm fired.

I like what you were saying there, you know, with scaling and the simple fact is you can't hold on to, to top talent unless you grow. High talented people want a pathway to promotion. They don't want to be stuck out in the field for, for 20, 30 years. Is that what you want? Is that what you want somebody who's happy just doing the same thing over and over again or somebody who's looking to evolve in their career and then manage and then help you grow. And you know, those are all the things that we look for, when scaling and you know, know there, there are times when that can get away from you, but it sure beats the alternative. Like one, one little break in the chain or breaking the dam breaks everything. No, we don't. It's not what we're looking for. We're looking for consistency, looking for high talented people and you get that through growth. Simple as that.

Yeah, well said. I mean, you have so many people that complain about like, oh man, I have a hard, hard time keeping people. It's like, well, if if you keep experiencing that, like, maybe there's something like, do you have a career ladder? Like, what's. What potential do they see? If they see you constantly putting out the same problems, they don't see a career path. So that's one of the reasons they're not going to stay.

Precisely.

Are you going to share your screen or camera

Should I. Should I go ahead and start off, this whole thing with a video?

Let me make sure I know how to share. Are you going to share your screen or camera?

I don't think you have to do anything.

All right, let's see what happens.

Yeah. It could be wrong.

Yeah. I'm going to. I'm going to add this thing here.

This working. I mean, you already got people fired up. I'll. I'll see if I can.

Oh, yeah. And stick around because we're going to talk AI. We had to tease it.

Oh, yeah. I think we'll just get right into it.

LB Pro and LB Light are AI-powered lighting rendering software

All right, let's see it.

This going to work. Imagine showing your clients the finished look before the first light goes in the ground. With LB Pro and LB Light, you can generate stunning night renderings in seconds, complete with architectural, landscape and holiday magic. Experience the future of lighting Design. Powered by AI try for free@lighting-boss. com.

Sick.

AI did not do that video.

No. Well. And AI did not prepare the outline for this podcast.

Good. I like when things go off the rails.

Well, so I saw. Where did. I saw that video the other day? you guys just launched something new or What?

Yeah. So 1111. Thanks, Patrick Carters, for stealing my thunder on. On 1111. we launched what you're supposed to.

I don't understand the make a wish thing. That's just what you do on 111111 is wishing time. I never knew this.

Now you know.

Yeah.

Drop all sorts of knowledge.

1118 is, like, so much better.

So 1111, we dropped new rendering features on LB Pro. And it's interesting. LB Pro and LB Light. It's interesting because, you know, things never work out exactly the way that you think they will. Right. You've got this vision. And my vision when I started building out a, design and proposal software a decade ago was that we were going to have the proprietary landscape lighting rendering software on the market. And you start to notice this has all happened so fast just a few months ago that the AI to OpenAI chat, Gemini, they're all starting to be able to create these amazing realistic landscape renderings. So it's not something that's proprietary now. Now it's something that people are Gravitating to now you got to find a way how to add it into your services and make it valuable for people. Right. So that's what we tried to do here. Added it into lb, Pro and LB Light. We preloaded all the prompts so nobody's got to put in prompts. We also preloaded prompts for landscape, Holiday and overhead CAD renderings. So you can choose from those three different options now in our program. Also with those three prompts you're going to automatically get three variations. So they will give you three images to choose from. And all of that's done with the click of a button. Now I can utilize these very realistic renderings in order to create my as built, which very few people are still doing. Those overhead drawings, you know, ah, are such key to scaling your business and growing your business and you can create professional proposals directly on top of those renderings. So there are a lot of different ways that we took, you know, what's being done by AI and added a higher level experience to it.

ChatGPT is designed to help landscape lighting professionals improve their workflow

All right, so let me make sure I understand because people are like man, like why would I use lighting, boss? I could just go to ChatGPT and say, hey, make this house look awesome with landscape lighting. You, you guys have done the, the prompting which we know that like AI is awesome, but you can have two different prompts and get two different results. So you guys have done the research there, you have the prompts to get it to that. But then also you can overlay proposals. You can overlay as built like that stuff's not just going to happen if I click a button. If you have the free chat GPT.

Not yet.

Not yet. So what, what would you guys do to stay ahead of it? Or is it just like, damn it, why did I start this?

Yeah, it's, it's right. It's this road that once you start going down, you can't stop. But quite frankly, I started down that road 10 years ago. And even though it is not our main money maker, there's a, $29 a month subscription fee for light and a $59 a month subscription fee for Pro. They don't pay the bills.

You must have tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands subscribers.

I've got hundreds of subscribers. Yes. It does not pay the bills. It doesn't pay the bill for all the, all the features that we're constantly adding to it. Yeah, it's the product sales that pay the bills. But it's my passion. And just like you, helping landscape lighting professionals grow is what we are passionate about and I don't care if I make money on it. I'd rather give it away for free. Because we give it away for free. There are people who buy enough product from us. I'd rather give it all away for free. M so ultimately I'm just trying to make this into a no brainer tool. No matter what part of your landscape lighting journey that you are on, you can be just starting or you can be at the tail end of it. Ultimately anyone who is not using AI in some capacity is going to get left behind and I'm looking forward to diving into that more. but I want to be there for every part of the journey. That's just what we're trying to do.

Yeah. And I, I've always viewed it, I guess, or I guess not always, but I view it now as there's people that just break apart everything. Like, even, like people are like, well, couldn't I just get this fixture, cheaper myself if I went to China? Like, yeah, you absolutely could. You know, couldn't I do this? Like, there's people that just don't get it and that's not who you're marketing to and then there's the people who get it. It's like, why not just buy back your time like for $59 29 whatever. It's like, well, yeah, could you save $59 a month? Technically, yes. But when you look at the advantages of the things it's going to do to help you with your efficiencies and close more deals faster, like it's a no brainer, like, why, why would you not do that? You know, it's like, yeah, you could do the free version of Chat GPT and take way longer and then still have to go and put your proposal together just to save 59 bucks. Just doesn't make sense.

Preaching the choir, my friend. Well, it sounds, it sounds better when you say it.

It's just, it's funny because we've always had the same, not same, but similar missions. And you know, you remember when we, when we first met, this was before the podcast. we were doing those webinars and those were so fun because we would just jam out on those and it's like, I'll hit them over here and then you're gonna hit them over here. And I don't know if anything came of it, like, did we help anyone?

I don't know. Here you are, 200 and some odd episodes of a podcast later. You know, you've grown a massive audience. I'm only going to take credit for, like, a small percentage of that. but, yeah, we're. We've. There's been a lot of changes in five years for both of us. And that was the beginning. Those podcasts or, sorry, those webinars were at the beginning of, you know, something that, that you have really turned into something amazing. So it's been cool to watch that journey, and I've just been trying to, you know, following your. Your path and, and grow in a similar fashion. It's been fun.

Well, it's just I love meeting. I love hanging out with you and talking business and, and just, like, talking different ways to help people. For some reason, we have that same passion again. I'm like, sometimes I'm like, why do I even care? Like, I care more about people's success than they care about it.

Marketing is about growing your audience, getting people into your ecosystem

MIKE M. Can I just not care as much? That would be easier, but I do. It's. It's truly something that I'm passionate about. So it's like, I'm just gonna keep talking, and if people don't implement, then that's on them. But I, I, feel good that, like, I led them down a path that gave them options. We have guests like you. Come on, you're sitting here laying down this knowledge, and it's like there's people that are going to take advantage of it. It's kind of like the 80, 20 rule. 20 are just going to be like, dude, thanks, Ryan. That was one thing that changed my business, my life, whatever. Most people, unfortunately, probably aren't gonna do anything with it.

That makes it all worth it. That small percentage makes it all worth it. And it's. It's why we do what we do. And we'll just keep fighting the good fight as long as we believe in this. And I can tell by the way you speak that, that you believe wholeheartedly in your message, and I believe in it. Knowing that we both have similar visions, we can go to bed and rest easy at night knowing that we're doing what we're passionate about and preaching something that we truly believe in.

I've always liked when. When I first found out you had your software, I always liked it. I mean, of course, I don't have a lighting business. I didn't have one, but I'm always trying to get our members like, hey, use this. You've come, come in and done trainings and done special discounts and stuff like that. and I've always viewed it as a, for you, like a loss leader, you know, like the. We got Black Friday coming up. These stores are going to give away a 500 TV for 200 bucks because they just want people in there. And it's like, I'm always like, how do you differentiate yourself as a distributor? Because, like, can't they just go buy the product somewhere else? And to me, that's a huge differentiator. It's a huge differentiator the way you do your social media and education for people and stuff like that. It's like, I mean, yeah, you're not going to make money doing social media videos and coming on podcasts and doing those webinars and stuff like that. But. And your software, but it does get people into your ecosystem. And then you're like, why would you buy from someone else? Like, we're giving you all this, all this value, you know?

Yeah. And that, that goes for all of our audience out there too. Right. Not everything that you do is going to have a direct ROI or positive roi. you and I talked about it, talked about Light Up Expo. We talk about AOLP Conference. We just want people there. If you get people there, the profitability will pay for itself. Like, eventually we're going to be profitable. but it's, it's about growing that audience, getting people into your ecosystem. And a lot of that is going to be an investment both from a time standpoint and from a financial standpoint. You are not going to see profitability and almost anything that you do right off the bat. That's just how we have to look at it as business owners.

I was talking to soft, well, he's like a, he was the COO of this big software company that had a nice exit. And I was talking to him about a bunch of different things, but he, he was talking about their ROI. It needs to be a 1 to 3 cac to lifetime value. And I was like writing down the numbers. I'm like, wait, one to three, like to lifetime value. And like, I guarantee no landscape lighting person. Maybe in the world there might be one or two. They, they don't consider lifetime value when they're making marketing decisions. They're just like, dude, if I'm gonna lay out 10,000 bucks, I better get 10,000 bucks in 30 days. Otherwise you suck as a marketing company. You know, it's like, well, even if you made, you know, $30,000, it's still not the best investment on your cash today. You kind of just broke even by the time you pay materials and Everything else. But when you understand the lifetime value, now all of a sudden we're talking because. And this is where a lot of people screw up business. They don't, they don't actually know their lifetime value for one, and they don't do anything to increase it. It's like, what are you doing to increase your retention? Retention? I already did their lights. But what about their backyard? What about their, what about their lake house? What about when they move in three years? You know, what about referrals that may not count toward the lifetime value of that person on a piece of paper, but it certainly does in your projections. Know. So, I thought that was very interesting. He said one to three. I'm like, damn, like you can make those numbers work then. and that's software. You know, they.

Yeah, they have different software, slightly different animal. But, that's, I don't, that's something that you and I preach constantly, is that you got to stay in front of your clients because they're going to move, they're going to talk to people and they need maintenance on their systems.

Yep.

that you may get 10 grand up front, but the lifetime value of that client's going to be 100. Okay. So it's probably 10 times what that initial investment is.

There's still so many people. We, we did a webinar on maintenance plans. We've done podcasts on it. We've done all this. There's still so many people that don't have a recurring maintenance plan. and it's just like to me that's a loss leader. Like, dude, I'll lose money on that because I know I'm going to get a ten thousand dollar referral when I'm in that neighborhood.

Yeah, with your vans. With your RAT vans.

AI thinks we're going to be selling landscape lighting as a service

You know what's fascinating? And we'll see if we have time to go down this tree. And I'm not sure how much you have talked about this, but I kind of went down this tree with AI because I want to have a general idea of where AI thinks that it's going to be in the landscape lighting industry in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. And down this tree it thinks that we're going to be selling landscape lighting as a service. Lighting as a service. So I don't know if you've had that discussion with any of, you know, your subscribers.

I don't know if I know.

Fascinating. I mean like Comcast, like your, like your cable provider, a monthly, rather than charging, you know, $10,000 to install a System now we're going to be charging 150, 200amonth rather than enough front fee.

And they can just add like four lights a month or something.

Add on lights as you want. You're getting upgrades, you know, as the technology upgrades. It's pretty wild. Like, it's. This is a scary tree.

Lighting subscription is something that most of us are going to have a hard time understanding

I went down trying to prepare for this podcast because I, you know, I want us to make some predictions here, some bold predictions.

That'd be sweet. And then we'll replay it 10 years from now. I had a customer. This was probably 15 years ago at this point. I'm losing track of time, so don't quote me. his name was like Elon Musk or something, I don't know. But no, this guy, he literally told me, couldn't you. He spent a lot of money, don't remember how much. And then he kept adding lights. You know, we all know lighting is highly addictive, thus lifetime value. If you're doing a good job. If you answered your phone, people that don't, they don't have those clients, like, that doesn't happen to me. I'm like, that's because you don't answer your damn phone. It's because you did a shitty install. It's because you didn't follow up. Like, there's reasons. But this guy goes, couldn't you just put me on something like a retainer? Because I think he was like, an attorney or something, and he was talking like this. So maybe he invented AI, but he's like, yeah, like, just charge me like 500 bucks a month. And then, you know, some, some months, like I get a little extra, you know, and other months you do, you know, but on, on average, you should be able to figure out your numbers to know that like it makes sense. And I was like, that sounds stupid.

Well, it's a, it's a fascinating concept and it's something that, that most of us are going to have a hard time wrapping our heads around because there would. What are you going to do? How are you going to cash flow? Like the immediate materials, right? In that if you're laying out, let's just say that it cost you four grand, five grand worth of, worth of materials. How are you going to cash flow that. So that I can afford to have these, this subscription base. So now that means I got to look at partnerships with different manufacturers where maybe, maybe I've got, you know, 365 day terms, whatever it is, until I recoup my investment. It was this fascinating tree that I'M I can't wait to go down. Oh, Kartik is popping in. Holy cow, my man.

I. I don't know that. It's kind of like if you talked about AI five years ago, we'd be like, nah, no, I can't. I couldn't do a rendering, whatever, you know, even two years ago, a year ago. So it is hard to, like, when you say it, I'm hearing you say, oh, my God, stupid. But it's. Damn it, it's probably gonna do it.

You know, like, it's something that we should probably prepare for. And. And for anybody who's curious, Kartik is maybe on the brains behind, the LB apps. Kartik's the one that makes it all happen.

Oh, sweet. What's up, Kartik?

I'm glad that he's jumping in today.

Landscape Lighting Secrets crew is preparing for possible AI changes in outdoor lighting industry

Well, what else did you. I mean, this was. So this was what you asked AI. Hey, what do you think based on these things that this potential changes that could happen in the outdoor lighting industry?

I wanted to start with a question from you. You guys are having these conversations in your roundtables. What does the Landscape Lighting Secrets crew, How are they preparing for this? How are they currently using AI and where do they think that's going to happen? What do you think is going to happen in the next five, 10 years? What are those conversations like in your roundtables?

I don't know if I don't have a general consensus answer. I know some of the things they're using AI for, and a lot of it is just around, like, renderings, customer communication. it's funny because now people are starting to use it for, the pricing. They're like, you know, I tell them, like, don't ask your competitor, and they just ask chat GPT. they're seeing. Have you seen that? You know, homeowners are doing it. They're getting quote requests now from. From AI, saying, hey, our customer. This guy wants to want to quote m. so, yeah, I. I would say we're behind. Like, we're not, like, ahead of the curve. Like, oh, I can't tell you because we're so far ahead.

I think our industry as a whole is behind technology. I mean, landscape lighting, hey, we got cool fixtures.

You know, we're using it. You know, I see people using it for SOPs, which is cool. coming up with like, hey, help me do this pay for performance model. And it used to be like, you'd ask a bunch of people, and it was just really weird. And you couldn't understand it. So I think clarification on certain things and almost using it as like a coach, a mentor, you know, I see people doing that, which I think is good. I think it's helping them just collapse time in certain things like even put proposals together and things like that. So yeah, not, I mean it's useful but not cutting edge ways to use AI by any means.

Yeah, the rendering is probably the most cutting edge part of it. And then simplifying some things, getting clarity. Yeah, right now. but yeah, if you ask, if you ask Chat, it'll tell you say, when is AI going to take over the landscape lighting industry? it's, it says we're basically going to take over everything. I, that you don't have to do with your hands.

Right.

So wrapping your head around all of that and that, you know, AI can be doing the sales, can be doing the ordering of product, it can be doing the design of the product, it can be booking and scheduling, it can be communicating with the clients. basically you're just, there's a possibility out there that a lot of us just become a pair of hands. It's kind of fascinating given how we've looked at manual labor for the past 50 years at least in this country that you know, you got to go to college and get your education. Well, you know, there's going to be a time here, a time period where like this is the most value, these are the most valuable things we have. That's kind of scary.

How do you see people trying to differentiate themselves? Because if all that is A.I. truly, I mean they're, they're finally going to be good at sales. They're gonna have some freaking awesome sales presentations. they're gonna do everything, they're gonna follow up, they're gonna be like, hey, we've got a time to time to chat. Whenever you're available, just click here to start the presentation. It could be 10 o' clock tonight while you're laying in bed. all that's going to happen. So how, how do they differentiate themselves when it's really just a number on a piece of paper and like, yeah, we, we're going to show up and do the install according as to plan.

You know, if you go down this, this rabbit hole with chat, ah, it says you're actually going to differentiate yourself with your installs. and we know that there are right ways to do installs and there are wrong ways to do installs and you're going to Lean into that.

How much are you leaning into AI for your install procedures

What are your install procedures? How much are you leaning into AI? So just because all these tools are available doesn't mean everybody's going to use them.

Right?

And there may be those people that like the human touch. So maybe you use it a part of your sales strategy that we don't have any AI, my employees, that we are, you know, 100 human. that, that's a wild concept. I don't know. That's a fantastic question. How are you going to differentiate yourself? There's always ways. We know that there are always ways. How did, how did I differentiate myself as a product distributor? We found a way.

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what happens because they, they have voice AI now, right. And so a phone call will say like, hey, this is Ryan, I'm an AI agent. If at any time you want to talk to a human, press one. And I'm sure that I haven't used that. but those companies that are, have their data to say 30% of the people just click, I want to talk to a human or whatever it is, right? Because I think it's going to be depend. It's going to depend on how good the AI is. If it's really good. Why would you deal with a human who's unreliable, late to appointments and you know, you know, tells you one price and does another. And if it's really good, I mean, it's going to be hard because people won't care about the human element. There will always be that, that person that, that version. It's like in the, the buying cycle, there's always the people that the new iPhone comes out, gotta have it. I don't care what features it's like, I gotta have it. Then there's other people, like, why would you get the new iPhone, you stupid. Like, you could just use the one that's five years old, whatever. So there's always gonna be those levels. it's going to be, I think, the, the designer, the contractor, installer, figuring out, okay, who do they want to be in the marketplace? Do they want to go all human? Do they want to go some AI? I think it's going to be tough, you know, because don't you think even with just like your software, is it going to make the, the bad, is it going to expose bad designers or make them look better than they deserve? I guess.

Probably both. It's probably gonna do both.

Yeah. Because when on the rendering it's gonna like, oh my gosh, this is great. But then like you said, they're gonna do execution time.

Yeah. And now you're gonna be able to ask Chat, you know, who's who, who's, who's the best at this right in the area. you know, you're kind of basing on reviews, Chats, pulling reviews, able to, able to tell you who's going to be the best firm, who does things the right way. Yeah, it's, it's going to be an interesting. It's all happening so fast. it basically says if, if you ask, Chat says in four years, all of those systems that you currently have in place that you're currently doing yourself, minus the installation, could be obsolete in four years.

Yeah, it's crazy to hear that. But you see, once it like attaches to something, it just takes over. So it could be faster, you know, it's crazy.

Exactly.

You want to hear some of the AI Bold predictions for 20 years

And then, I'll go down this, this list a little bit. you know, a couple of things that shook me. You know, this is equal parts exciting and terrifying because like you said, do humans really want to deal with humans and we want to see humans. Absolutely. We need that face to face interaction. But if you're trying to do a business deal, do you need to see a human? You simply need good, clear communication. Humans don't necessarily have the best clear communication. So kind of going down this rabbit hole, you know, I said, you know, build out a timeline for when you kind of think that 90% of what we do can be obsolete. It said four years for everything. Not done with your hands. It does think it's interesting. It does think that anyone who doesn't adopt AI will get crushed. I think you and I talked about the fact that, you know, you, you could go a whole nother direction, lean into the fact that you are 100% human based. That may be something that a few people like, I don't know how many, but a few may. So it thinks that within 10 years. So by 2035 you're absolutely not going to have to go to a job site anymore. That humans are going to be able to do 360° ° scans with their phones. They'll get a fully engineered design, photorealistic renderings, beam spreads, color temp, focal points, and be able to walk around their own property with AR goggles in 10 years, so get the quote, they'll be able to send it to three people, whatever it is, or it'll come through, you know, specific companies. but in 10 years, you may not be on site until you've got all the tools and are doing the install.

I totally see that.

AI is going to auto select fixtures. It's going to tell you where to run wire size, transformers, voltage drop, auto estimate labor hours, etc. Etc. That's 10 years.

I could see that being faster, to be honest. That one I could.

Yeah. That's. That's wild. What's scary is when you ask it what's going to happen in 20 years?

Don't do it.

That's what's scary. I don't know if we want to have. These are bold predictions. You want to hear some of the AI Bold predictions for 20 years?

Yeah. Kill all humans.

It's thinking that fixtures are going to be wireless, solar powered, micro battery operated, self syncing, self aiming, self charging, self mounting. Wrap your head around all of that.

That's cool.

So install is going to be. A homeowner buys the product, it ships to their house, they take it out of the box, they put it on the ground and AI, drones and robots will position that fixture and fine tune.

It, auto aim it. Yeah.

Then the system can scan and calibrate itself.

That's sick. You should just come out with that today. Why wait 20 years?

Right. Then, then you've got this concept where fixtures will be optional, that houses will be coated in photo reactive siding trees augmented with bioluminescent grafting. Like freaking Avatar. AI thinks we're going to be living in Avatar by the year 2025.

Wait, 20 what?

Or 20, 2055, sorry, 2055. We're going to be living in Avatar. And that your lighting is going to be able to adapt to your mood if you're stressed, if you got bad sleep patterns. You know, depending on your time outdoors, your lighting is going to be able to adapt to that.

Damn it.

I don't know what to say, man. I don't know what your shelf life is. At least I sell a physical product. I don't know how much time you got left.

Well, you know me, I'm Mr. Optimistic.

Or find a way. That's the thing. Like we're all going to adapt.

Yeah.

And find a way.

People, people have asked me for years now, like what are you going to do when they find out the secret? Or you know, like they could just ask AI. I'm like, yeah, that's not what we have. That's not what we are. Maybe we started as that, you know, but we're, we're much bigger and broader than just a coaching program. We're a community. We're a buyer's group. We're you, you can't replace community with AI. You just can't. I mean, at least maybe in 2035.

No man. And the more AI takes over, the more we are going to need that community.

That's what I think. I think it's going to help us, how to solve those other issues. I don't know yet.

Yeah, that was a fascinating rabbit hole that I, that I went down.

That's kind of depressing.

AOLP Illuminate 2026 is scheduled for February in California

But, but let's talk about community for the last 10 or 15 minutes that, that we have. you know, you're doing it in a couple of ways, obviously with landscape, lighting Secrets and with Lighted Up Expo. So I want to get into that. But, but the AOLP community, I, I'll drop a little something here. I'm not sure how many people know, but Ryan Lee is going to be one of the headliners at AOLP Illuminate 2026 in Carlsbad, California. so that's February, February 3rd through the 6th, something like that.

Yep.

And it's going to be the 25th anniversary of the association, which is freaking excited. So for our 25th anniversary, our goal is to get 250 attendees. we had, we had a high last year of 220, so, so we got a lofty goal so to increase, you know, 8% or so, whatever that number boils down to. but we have an amazing venue out there. I think it's the Westin Carlsbad. It's like 10 minutes from the FX headquarters. Like you said we were talking about earlier. It's the Mecca. Southern California is the Mecca of Landscape lab.

It really is. I think that was where it was all started.

You got some of the major manufacturers out there, Vista fx, several others now I think. But yeah, it's it's the Mecca.

Yep, I know Aurora is right out there. I, I hope Aurora participates.

Corona.

Unique, right? Yeah, Corona's right there in LA. SPJ's in LA. You got some of the, you know, most amazing designers in the industry out there. Like I just watching Jim fly, fly around on his helicopter today from probably project to project, but a dick is.

He doing helicopter rides for top the long, long standing AOLP members or something?

You might be able to talk him into it. but yeah, I mean that dude's doing some of the, the highest end M projects in the industry right now. He's right there. It's freaking awesome. we're, we're going to get a lot of manufacturers involved, but One thing that's really freaking cool that's going to happen out there in Carlsbad is that, FX is going to offer to take people down to their Tijuana facility. So that's sort of a full day trip for anyone who is there a day early. and then they are going to do like drinks and light bites at their Carlsbad facility in the afternoon. So that's going to be. They, they'll leave for Tijuana like 8:00am and then, get a few buses from the hotel and take people over to their San Diego facility around 4:35pm.

Yeah, if, I mean, if you're going to AOL, I can't imagine, just get there a day early because I haven't done the, the Tijuana tour, but I have toured their campus and I'm telling you, it's a campus. It's not just like, you go in this room and like, look at some lights or whatever. Like, it's, it's very impressive. It's. I, I don't know, maybe people don't care about that stuff. I do. It's inspiring. It's, it's cool to see. It's like sometimes we feel like we're this really small industry and you're like, oh, wow. Like, oh, this is a, this is a big deal. Like they have testing and have all the industry R D and just all the cool stuff. It's, it's awesome to do and, and.

You can think whatever you want about FX products. I'm actually doing a training event here, at my studio in, about three weeks on Luxor assignment because I, I've never done it. I've never gotten my hands dirty with FX Luxor product. They've got a lot of other great stuff, but regardless of what you think about fx, very few people in the industry do it better than they do. Their marketing is on point. They've got a full team for marketing. It's not just one person sitting in the back of the warehouse taking photos. Like, they've got that full team, training. Few people have good online training and good insight training. Like, they've got that FX does a great job with pictures, with, you know, spec sheets, all of that stuff that other manufacturers do struggle with. so it's, it is inspiring and it's something that I hope everybody can get excited about.

The conference is scheduled for February 5th and 6th

All right, so the dates are February 5th and 6th, which is Thursday, Friday. Of course you can come in the day early and you got probably the CLVLT stuff and cold stuff before as well, right?

Yep, exactly. so I think they both start on that Tuesday. They probably start on, the third. And then we've booked, we've booked a actor, producer, comedian to emcee the awards dinner, which is going to be awesome. we've booked a band for the Friday night bash. Like, we've done a lot of things this year. We don't care if conference makes money this year. We want people there. We want people at a fantastic time and booked a great lineup of speakers. You're going to be one of the headliners and I'm freaking excited just to hear what you talk about.

Yeah, I mean, dude, I mean, I, I love this stuff. And, I, I would have never known that. I would have loved like, speaking in front of a, an audience or whatever. Because again, like, you put me, even now if you just put me into like a round table in an AOLP or anything like that. I'm not the loud guy, I'm the quiet guy. Like, I. But you give me the mic and I feel like I've got something that's going to help someone. I'm gonna go all in. And I'm, excited. I have two. I've already worked, I've started working on them. I'm, I'm not releasing the names yet because I'm refining some things, but I got two presentations that, I'm really excited about. So I don't, I only believe in awards and let if they're self proclaimed. So I don't know, I'm, I'm assigning myself, I'm the keynote speaker and I realize that might not be true, but I'm, I have two keynotes that I'll, that I'll be delivering. So.

I'm not. Yeah, I'm not gonna fight you on that.

That's not the first time I've assigned myself keynote speaker. Okay. Again, it's the number one landscape lighting show in the world, so just relax.

Yeah, it's. I, I can't tell you how much work and time and effort that the association, you know, has put in to making this the, the biggest conference yet. We've been inspired by, you know, the, the events that you've put together. You put together a great party. Greg may be bringing his flamethrower. I don't know what Dick's saying.

I'm freaking out with that something you said.

I don't know, was it something I said or. You said definitely you. Oh, yeah. I. Thanks, Carly, for jumping in. the first Panel that beers on it. That was a lot of fun.

How was I, wasn't I on that panel? And I don't even drink.

Yeah, that's weird.

Surprised I got invited back. Not drinking on a drinking panel is always weird.

Yeah, I, I'm excited to see what new comes of this. this is something that's, that I'm pumped about, the association's pumped about, hopefully our members are pumped about. And again, the association and our new membership or our new management company has just put in tireless effort since we hired them. That's been, that's been fun. But we're over all those hurdles with a new management company and AOLP is now set to grow. You know, no longer is AOLP, satisfied with being 200, 250, 300 members. This is something we want to make to the 3,000 members to where we can truly have an impact on the legalities of landscape lighting. You know, what, what, what licenses do you need? Like the licenses that are out there are, are, are bogus like that. It's, you know, the low voltage licensing that exists in the market has nothing to do with what we are doing. So AOLP is trying to be a dominant force and we just need support. You know, we need members to sign up and be part of committees and come to conference.

About time. Whoa. Did I say that out loud? it's gonna be good because that's, that's what an association's supposed to do. Like, we need that. I mean people are like, wait, I, I don't have to be an electrician, but I have to go get this stupid license or whatever. Like there's going to be a time ask AI how long this is going to take. when we can just have the COVLT license count or do, do two exams, whatever it is, you know.

Yeah, that's, that's what we're trying to get to. so we're excited to have that event right before Light Up Expo. When's that going to be?

Light it up is a month after March, 4th through 6th.

So they've got some breathing room. Got some time before coming. Is that going to be Orlando again?

Yeah, same, same spot actually. Orlando. I think you guys are coming, right? Lighting boss.

We're gonna be there.

Yeah, we've got man, we haven't released a lot of the information, but we've got. Last year people were blown away. They're like that, that was the first time that you did this. I'm like, yeah, but it's not the first event we did, but the speakers freaking over delivered, we try to do it so that like, by the end of like the first day, people are like, all right, I'm good, I got my value. Like, I could go home now, you know, like front loading a book type thing. and it doesn't matter really. Like, even if we did suck at, delivering a message, it's just these hallway discussions. The same thing at aolp. You start talking to people and you're like, so wait, how long you been in the business and what have you done? And all of a sudden you learn one thing that, like, might add an extra $10,000 a month to your business the rest of your life, or one thing to help you avoid a bad hire. Like, duh, why would you not go to these events?

How about one thing to add $10,000 a year and it's paid for, let alone 10 grand a month. That's one thing.

If you have an opportunity to get in front of 2, 250 people

You take one thing that makes you more efficient, that makes you more profitable, that helps you get you a couple more sales a year and it's worth every penny.

I used to, man, I used to just, I didn't know, like again, when I had my lighting business, I just worked and I, I didn't know that there was things going on. I had heard of the aolp, didn't really even know what it was, and I was just like, why would I go to that? Because if I go to that, that means three days potentially that I'm not working and I can't afford that. I need the income. And it really wasn't until I sold my business and now I'm kind of on the other side, you know, And I'm like, dude, I see people like, they're, they're not just showing up, they're bringing a team member, sometimes they're bringing multiple team members. And I'm like, holy. Like, I would, I did not have that mindset. You know, I had this like, scarcity mindset. Like if I go to this and that means I can't have this, I just, I just wasn't prepared. I wasn't mature enough. I didn't, I didn't understand business. I didn't understand how the world works. And now it's just like a no brainer. Like, listen, if you have an opportunity to get in front of 2, 250, people that are in similar situations, some maybe a little bit behind you, some a little bit further along, like, why would you not go take advantage of that opportunity if you think, well, yeah, but I bring in, you know, $10,000 a day. It's like, okay, so what? That's two. Two jobs. Like, you're gonna more than make up for that with the knowledge, the relationships, everything that you gain. So I highly, highly recommend people going, and there's just. There's just no excuse not to. Everyone comes up with excuses. Oh, well, I got this and my kids and that. Like, you have time. Start finding time. You have the dates. Go figure it out. Get your parents to watch them, pay them money. Do what you got to do. Be there. Bring your kids. I've seen people bring their kids.

Hadn't thought of that. Great idea.

Yeah.

Well, I've got another little opportunity for training on, December 9th. I'm only going to bring in 15 people on this thing, but it's going to be a little, wait list. But we're going to attempt to recreate, you know, my beautiful putting green, which.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Which looked like this after the last hurricane.

Are you. That's your backyard.

so.

Oh, my gosh.

So we're doing it and all.

I've seen the. The old night pick when it looked awesome.

Well, it doesn't look like that right now. but this is what it looked like after the last hurricane, after the waters receded, three feet, because the water. You can see this line kind of down here on the walkway where the water was.

Dang.

So, all my lighting and audio still worked after that, which is saying something. But we decided it was time for a refresh. I'm getting my hands dirty with Luxor for the first time. And then I'm gonna make, another audio training part of that. So that's going to be December 9th, that we're doing that. And then, just kind of like a little. Little overview here. You know, I've already got it kind of planned out using. Using LB Pro.

did AI do this? Was this AI assisted or this? Is this a jso?

This was the AI assisted rendering of the front of the house. This is what it all looked like before my illumination cones. Now, the illumination cones are pretty worthless.

Came up with that idea.

Now, instead of doing this, we just.

Looks real things like this. That's cool.

And I'm telling you, the overhead rendering, this is what you all got to be using. You all got to be using overheads to map your projects.

Are you getting this with a drone?

No. So we're connected to Google Earth.

Okay.

So I can add. I can add an area. I can capture a satellite photo and it's just going to take me to whatever address I put in and then from there I can tell boss AI to turn this into a CAD draw. Just get you a little, this is AI now live show and tell.

Yeah, that's cool. And then have you tested this or what do you do when it's a heavily treed area?

AI is going to spit you out something that's relatively close. But yeah, that's where the drones come in handy. That's where a program like Near Map would come in handy.

Okay. Does it integrate with Near Map or no.

Say that again.

Does it integrate with Near Map or.

No, I think near map wanted like 15 grand a year to integrate. I said, I'm not sure that that's worth it just yet.

Yeah, but they could, if they had something like that, they could just grab that photo, upload it here, and then they're good to go.

Yeah, precisely. And obviously the better your WI FI connection, the faster all this works.

With LB Pro, you can do 99% of your design before seeing property

I've got 30 different tabs open, so this probably takes about a minute to generate, about the same as it would in any other setting. let's see. Maybe it'll crap out.

I wasn't paying attention. What, What'd you type in?

I didn't type anything in. That's the beauty of it all. All I did was just click on the button saying I wanted the CAD rendering option. So here they are.

Sick.

And then I can create from here.

Let me see that. That's crazy. yeah. I mean, so this is new, right? I haven't seen this.

Yeah, that's brand new. Just spits me out three different options. So I pick the one that's closest and then I can design on top of it.

That is rad.

Pretty wild. Pretty wild stuff. And honestly, dude, this just the beginning. It's just the beginning.

Yeah, but it's 59amonth. I don't know.

29. 29 for light.

Now that's actually really sick. I. Dude, I don't know why people make it so complicated. You can close again. This is. We're not talking illy sized projects that are $400,000. Like an average landscape lighting project has got to still be around $10,000. You know, just talking average jobs. 10 grand. Do the thing, click the buttons, put the lights, tell them a price, get a check, get the deposit, move on with.

With LB Pro. Like there's a portal in there where you can. Where you can text somebody a link to the project you created for them the second you got off the phone, and they can take a photograph and. Or videos of their home, and it goes right into that portal. Dude, you can do 99% of your design before you ever see property.

Love it. Love that. Yeah. And. And then when you do that, do they see it? Do they see the design, on that same link or something?

Not unless you wanted to email it to them and show.

Okay. And to be honest, so many people are afraid of that. Like, well, you know, that's my design. That's what I get paid for. I'm like, dude, we just talked for an hour about how AI is going to make your designs. like, it's not that cool of a design. It's up lights on each side of the porch. It's like, down lights from the tree. Like, there's not a whole lot you can do here.

Well, we made it simple. If you want to hide your design and only show it to them in person, you have that option. Or if you want to email it over to them with the design and. Or your proposal, you can do that, too.

Yeah, I don't like to email because I. I do need some. I need to hold something hostage so I can get the check. But, you know, I don't either, man.

I fought that email button, for a long time, and you got to pick and choose your battles.

Yeah. And there's. I mean, you know, even though I, like, say close on the spot, there's times where it's just not going to happen. Like, send it over because my husband lives in another country or whatever. So, yeah, you definitely got to have the flexibility. But if people are trying, at least first, the right way, have a fallback and a fallback and a fallback. At least you're not just leading with, hey, let me email you something, and you guys will never call me back. Sound good? Yeah, sounds good.

Because all you're gonna do is use it to, compare it against somebody else's.

Exactly.

Try to beat me down on price or whatever. So, yeah, dude, about that. Love these talks.

Yeah, that's cool, man. I. I do like the, What is it? The cad?

Yeah, I think the cat thing is something that nobody's thinking of. That is imperative.

I like it. I think it's cool. people are used to that, you know, especially if they've ever done a landscape plan or pool or something like that. So it just sets you at a new standard, you know? especially when you're doing both. Like, hey, here's the AI rendering. Here's this. Let's how many. How many people are not paying the 59amonth?

All of your listeners who have tried LB Pro and LB Light can try again free

I mean, too many. You have a competitive advantage by Ryan sucking at marketing Lighting. Boss.

Man, you nailed that.

Are we. We should be working together, you know, because I'm trying to get my, my people to have a competitive advantage. we only sell to landscape lighting secrets. No one else can buy this. Like, in fact, you're not even allowed to because we need a competitive advantage.

All right, we'll have that conversation after. But anybody, all of your. So all of your listeners and users who have, who have tried LB Pro and LB Light, you can try again for free. I think we got some coupon codes. You got some coupon codes there with you, Ryan? I don't know about my head.

No, I do. We got them here. I'm glad you remembered. well, try Pro Boss AI or try Light. L, I, T, E Boss AI. We'll put them in the show notes. And, if I could figure out how to do stuff, we'll put them in the comments too.

I'm enjoying watching you struggle with this.

Yeah. See, look. Is that. Does that look right?

Yep. So if you've already tried it, that's your code. If you haven't already tried it, then, then you get a free 30 day trial for pro and a three free day trial for light. if you've already done the trial and are using that code, you're gonna have to put in a credit card number, but it won't be charged. You just delete that credit card number right after the trial starts.

Okay, but why would you do that when you're just going to keep using it anyway?

I don't see any reason why you wouldn't.

Yeah. All right, well, now I'm freaked out because of AI and because you can just do CAD stuff with your software.

I didn't want either of us or any of our listeners to sleep well tonight. Maybe tomorrow.

I know. For real.

What's the one most important thing lighting can improve about the industry

I did want to ask you if you could wave a magic wand, what's something that you. You could instantly approve. Improve about the lighting industry? What would it be?

M. I could wave a magic wand and instantly approach. Dude, I've been trying to instantly improve things for the past 20. There's no instant improvement. There's so many little things that we as an industry can get better at. God, what is the one. What's the one most important thing.

Or maybe the most frustrating thing for you in your position or something like that?

How many rabbit holes you want to open down there?

Joel says Integration. I don't know if he's in your head or not.

What do you mean by integration, Joel? Integration?

Maybe Controls.

Yeah, maybe that's what he means. I don't. I. I don't know, dude. I got. I, For the first time, I'm kind of at a loss.

Well.

What'S your answer?

I think my answer has to do with why I started Light It Up Expo and why I'm excited to hear that AOLP isn't just satisfied with 150 members or 200 or whatever. It's like, I feel like this lighting, this lighting industry is freaking badass. And I go to other industry events in other industries, and I'm like, whoa, we're behind. Even AI. And again, I'm not saying I'm ahead of AI, and you guys are like, I. I'm behind. Like, we're all behind. And so I think that's what, If I could. I don't know if it's one thing, but instantly approve would be just the education and the speed at which we accelerate our industry, you know, and we've never, We've never had some place, something to, like, bring it all together. You go to Cedia and there's what, 12,000 people there and hundreds of booths and just crazy, you know, you go to some of these other landscaping shows and. Same thing. And that, that, that's frustrating for me. I'm, Like, no, no, like, we got. We got a lot of work to do here, you know, and, and even my podcast. Yeah. I mean, I have a decent following, but, like, my Instagram, I have like 2,300 followers, you know, and there's more. There's a lot of people that do lighting. And I think some people get frustrated.

Oh, electricians suck.

Landscaper sucks. Like, well, yeah. So what are we going to do to elevate them? Like, what are we going to do to help them instead of just talk trash? Like, if people are doing it, whether you like it or not, people are going to hire that shitty electrician, the shitty landscaper. So you either need to figure out how to get that customer, or we, as industry kind of, providers need to help those people get educated so they can do a better job.

Yeah, perfect. You stole my answer. And that's why I was talking about taking aolp. I think that was the comment that freaked our president out, Nick Shriver, putting a zero on that. because that's what it's really going to take to set national standards where people, nationally, homeowners, diy, whoever are going to understand that there's a right way to do this and a wrong way to do this. And I've seen a lot of bad work out there that's dangerous. and we got to have those standards. But it takes money and it takes education, it takes commitment.

So an AI. I mean, if you ask AI right now, it might tell you, hey, hire an electrician. Okay, cool. You just sabotaged every AOLP member, like 99 of them. You know what I mean? Like, you just lost all these people. So you're right. Like we need thousands and then people. There's not, they're not all haters, but there are people that are resistant to the idea of growing the lighting industry. There's already too many people, dude. I'm like, dude, again, go to another industry event and you'll see like 200 people at an AOLP event is not like, oh my gosh, it's so crowded. We are stronger with more people. If we, if we're relying on five board members to go and change the, the regulations of the freaking United States on low voltage regulation and you guys have full time jobs and families and everything else, like that ain't happening. So we literally need thousands and thousands of members to be able to afford to hire like real people. Real, I don't know what the names are, litigators, whatever people to go and do this for us so that when AI does start taking over, they're at least educating the right thing. Like, they better be certified here. They better have gone through this class. They better have joined Landscape lighting secrets, if we can throw that in there somewhere. but they better have this standard. Otherwise these quotes, these designs that goes out the door, you know, and, and there is no standard. And so I think, even though people are frustrated, but by the potential of growing the industry because they think it's going to hurt them, it's hurting them that it's never grown. It's just been stuck for the last maybe 30 years. And there's innovation in product and, you know, software and stuff like that, but it's still stuck.

Yeah, there's no, there's no nationally recognized or enforced standard. There is a standard. AOLP set, the standard with CLB LT and with Cole, they've set the standard now it's got to be recognized and enforced. That takes money and members. Yeah, that was good. That was a good one to end on. Thanks for answering that for me.

Yeah, anytime. If you get stuck in a bind or can't think, just call me.

I usually do.

well, thanks for coming on, man.

That was a lot of fun. I hope you're wrong in some areas

That was a lot of fun.

Really.

good insight and, it'll be really cool. We'll, we'll play this back in five years and then the 10 year anniversary and see what happens. I hope you're wrong in some areas and, and if you're right, hopefully that people are taking notes and actually getting ahead of the curve instead of waiting for it to happen. So.

Yeah, yeah, I'll look forward to it. Don't wait five years though to have me on again.

Yeah, well, we're just gonna replay this one in five years.

Ryan: December 9th, hands on training. Reach out to myself or Jeanette if interested

All right, man. Well, everybody, we'll see you all again. The date on your event. December. What?

December 9th. Reach out to myself or Jeanette if interested.

Okay. December 9th, gonna be a, hands on training. Really, really cool. Ryan's Place. And then, AOLP Illuminate, February 3rd through 5th, we'll call it. Yeah, Light It Up Expo, March 4th through 6. So thanks, Scott, everybody. And Ryan, as always, it's a pleasure having you on.

Yeah, really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.

All right, guys, go take over the world before AI does. Love you.