Lighting for Profits - Episode 205

With over 35 years of lighting industry expertise, Tom Garber dives into the brilliance behind product innovation, engineering standards, and the future of illumination. Join a seasoned ALA and UL committee member as he shares deep insights, untold stories, and what’s next for lighting technology.

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Episode Transcript

Welcome to Lighting for Profits, the number one landscape lighting show in South Carolina

Welcome to Lighting for Profits. All Light, all light, All Light. Powered by Emery Allen. Here is your host, Ryan Lee. All right, all right, all right. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the number one. It's the number one landscape lighting show in Charleston, South Carolina. Excited to hang out with you today. We got an awesome show. I'm telling you. You guys know this. We are so fortunate. We are so blessed to be in the landscape lighting industry. This industry is amazing. It's, so rewarding. Obviously there's, you know, great profits, Lighting for profits, but just rewarding, you know, the people that you get to meet, the experiences that you get to create, really, really such a unique opportunity to, to be part of this exterior illumination industry. So, so cool. So if you're starting looking to start or grow a landscape lighting business, you're definitely in the right place. We definitely want to help you guys get educated, motivated so that you can dominate. That's what this is about. So, guys, we got a great show. We got Mr. Tom Garber. You guys have been hearing me episode after episode. To get that discounted contractor price. Email Tom gbryawen. com but today he's going to be on the show. And, we're going to talk a lot of different things. We're going to talk a little bit about business. We're going to talk a little nerdy stuff, some tech, you know, some, some nerdy engineering stuff, some lighting stuff, entrepreneurship, family, like, lots of good things. So it's going to be a great show.

The waffle at this restaurant was a little bit too crispy

And, before we have Tom on, just real quick, you know, last, I think it was a couple weeks ago, Lindsay and I went out to, breakfast. And we don't go out to breakfast often. And, but we went out to breakfast and it was really cool experience actually, because, you know, we don't do it often. And we, get there and as we're waiting in line to, get checked in, there was, it was kind of chaotic at the front. And I had been to this restaurant, by the way, I'd been to this restaurant in another state before, had not been to this location. And it was kind of chaotic. And, there was people that were coming up to the register with their receipts and they were paying, you know, so that they could leave. And then there was like, people in line, like, hey, are you in line? Are you in line? Are you in line? Like, there was no one in line. I was trying to be polite and no one was in line. I'm like, looked like you were in line, but there was, like, a line to pay and then a line to, like, get your name on the list to get seated. Then there was other people that already, you know, had their, their name on the list. but here's what happened. There was two things that came out of this experience. Number one, we sit down. I'm really excited to do this because, again, I don't even really eat breakfast. I have, like, a protein shake every day. So I'm like, man, I'm getting, like, a waffle, I'm getting eggs, I'm getting protein, and, it's gonna be awesome. So, I, order everything. And honestly, I. It. I wasn't super impressed. Like, the meal was actually really good. But the. The waffle. The waffle was just a little bit too crispy. Well, a lot too crispy. I drenched it in syrup and made, it work. Okay. And, you know, I don't know about you guys, but, like, the waffle, you don't want it too crispy, but you don't want it soft. You know, there's like, this perfect consistency, to a waffle. So, and again, I'd have this. Had this waffle at this place before, and it was actually really good. It wasn't here. So, number one, there's two things I learned out of the experience. And this is the first one is, like, if you don't have properly documented SOPs, I don't know if it was because the chef. I don't know if it was the batter consistency. I don't know if they overcooked it. Again, there's a few variables that could go wrong here, but I've been to this same restaurant in multiple states, and like, every. It's usually pretty consistent, but in this case, it wasn't. So something happened where they didn't follow the standard operating procedure. And you should. If you're running a business, you should have it documented so that every single time you install an uplight, every single time you install a transformer, everything is the same so that every client has the exact same experience, the communication with them. Like, what happens when you're on your way for a service call? What happens after they receive an invoice? What happens after they receive a proposal? You should have these things not only documented, but automatically triggered in your processes for people to get on the phone call, to send a text, to communicate with your clients. And if not, you're going to end up with an experience like this where it's like, yeah, it was okay, but, I Made it work. It wasn't worthy of like a one star review, but I would have preferred have a really quality waffle experience, right? So, make sure to work on your standard operating procedures so that every single client gets the exact, exact same amazing experience. So again, overall, food was good. But here's the, here's the big kicker. This is what I got out of this experience. This was crazy. We finished the food. Again, I'm not pissed. Drenched the thing in syrup, went bunch of maple syrup on anything. It tastes good, right?

You can use Apple Pay to pay at any restaurant without creating an account

So then we go to pay. And I remember the people at the front, they were like standing in line. So I just asked the waitresses, I said, hey, do we, do we pay? Like, do we pay up there? And I don't even know why I asked, because, yeah, of course you pay up there. But I did ask, and she goes, oh, yeah, you can pay up there or you can scan the QR code on your receipt and just pay online. And I was like, oh, sweet. Okay. So I scanned the thing and this was amazing, you guys, because I scanned the receipt and a couple clicks later, without, without creating an account. Because I've been in experience like this where you're like, create your own account. Like, no, I just want to pay, right? So I scan the thing. It's like, here's your total. How much do you want to tip? And do you want to do Apple Pay? Yeah, I, literally clicked like two or three times. Boom, it's paid, I'm done. Like, I didn't even have to wait for her to take the credit card come back, and then I do my tip. It literally went in like. Like this. The few seconds of me asking her that question and her telling me that went from what was going to be a really bad experience. Because the last thing I want to do is now go wait in another line. I already waited in line to come in. Now I got to wait in a line to go pay. Like, that is like a worst case scenario for me. It went from the worst possible paying experience to really the best. Like, I was amazing. I was like, holy cow. So think about this for a minute. This is the last interaction I'm going to have with this restaurant on this particular day. And maybe for a while. I don't go to breakfast a lot, right? And so if my last interaction is a negative one where I'm standing in line, like, how likely am I going to want to return to this place in a short period of time as opposed to, like, if they over deliver on the quality and the food. And then all of a sudden, it's easy to pay. I'm like, man, that place is just awesome. The people are friendly. They smile, they're nice. They do your drink refills. They're checking in on you. Like, that's amazing. But the problem is they could have, like, amazing food, amazing service. And then one thing at the very end, I got to go stand in line. I ain't going back to that restaurant, okay? And maybe I'm crazy, but so are all of your clients, okay? And so a lot of times, we don't lose opportunities for reasons we may think. So you want to be the best lighting designer? Like, go for it. You know, join illy, learn photography, hire a pro, get your exposure. But don't screw it up by the final impression, because you truly can be an artist. You can be amazing at doing the design. But then all of a sudden, like, maybe you cut corners on where you're burying the wire or they're not deep enough. Maybe you don't clean up the sidewalk. Maybe, you know, you got some dirt on there. Are you. Are you not, like, hosing that down when you're done? Are you watering in your trench lines? Are you making sure that transformer is, you know, level? Like, are you doing these things? Are you. Are you communicating with your client? Maybe over communicating? Because fit and finish truly matter in this game. It's all about the experience, okay? Think about how hard is it for people to reach you if someone wanted to add on lights today? Like, are they going to be able to get ahold of you within 15 seconds? what if they wanted to add something? What if they wanted to add outdoor audio? Like, is it. How difficult is it for people to get ahold of you? And this is a huge challenge, not just in the lighting industry, but every industry, if you're doing. If you have a business and most people miss the details. And that's really what I actually loved about this breakfast experience. It went from potentially being like, the last thing I want to do is go wait in line to, like, wait a couple clicks, and I could pay. Like, that was amazing. It was awesome. And I literally was like, I want to go back to that business. Like, they get it. I want to support them, right? So remember, number one, SOPs make sure you guys have standard operating procedures so that every experience with every client is the exact same, and you're not having one person upset that there's a crispy waffle. And then number two, make it easy. Make it easy. For clients to work with you again. And remember this, remember that money, the money's not in the sale. The money is in the experience. So make sure you guys are auditing your entire client journey, your brand, how you interact with clients, how your team installs things. these things truly matter. And if you create an experience, it's going to be memorable. And people will not only be willing to do work with you again, but they'll find ways to work with you again. So hopefully you guys can learn something from that. That was, a really cool experience for me.

If you're aiming to elevate your outdoor installations, the Emory Allen Pro series fixtures are

Okay, guys, let's talk about standing out in the lighting game. If you're aiming to elevate your outdoor installations, the Emory Allen Pro series fixtures are your next go to. Take the Ranger Pro for instance. Crafted from solid forged brass and designed with versatility in mind. Whether it's rooftop mounting with the EA shingle mount affixed, to a gutter with the gutter mount, or integrating into landscape with a ground stake, this fixture adapts to your needs. Plus, with its IP68 rating, it's built to withstand the elements used in conjunction with the Emory Allen's other high performance bulbs for a comprehensive installation. And, and you're delivering top notch quality to your clients. This is what I'm talking about, guys. Ready to make the switch? Just email tom g@emryallen. com and maybe just hang out. Listen to him on the podcast today. But seriously, guys, don't waste your time going to their website. It's pretty. They have cool pictures, they have good information. But if you're ready to be a partner with Emory Allen, just email tom g@emryallen. com. mention that you heard about him here on Lighting for Profits. You and you'll get that discounted contractor pricing. Just email Tom Gallen dot com. All right, guys. And now again, of course you want to email him, but let's hang out with him right now. Let me know if you guys are ready. Let's get him coming on the show.

Tom Garber has been in the lighting business for 35 years

Where's my, guest intro? Oh, there it is. Welcome to the show, Mr. Tom Garber. What's up, Tom?

hey, Brian. Good man. How are you doing?

I'm doing good. life is. Life is good. Not every day is amazing. Not every moment's amazing in life, but life is. Is really good.

Yeah, that's right. Hey, where. You weren't talking about Waffle House, were you?

No, it was, it was first, Watch. Have you been to First Watch?

m. And some of my travels. Yes, I think we have we have eaten there a couple of times.

Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I don't even. I've probably only been to one waffle, maybe two waffle houses in my life. I don't know why.

Yeah, they make good waffles. They got the sop down pat.

They do. Well, I'm excited to have you on the show. Frequent, guest here, grateful, for your partnership with the podcast. and, it's. It certainly helps us keep going. 35 years in the lighting business, is that right?

It's probably a little more than that, but we'll stick at 35.

Okay, so we're just like, next year, in five years. You're like 30 years. You, still. You still geek out over a good beam spread?

you know, you look at some of the different lenses and optics, and it's pretty crazy what some of them will do, so. Yeah, I do.

Nice. You still got it in you. any.

Any lighting myths that you wish would just die already

Any lighting, myths, that you. You wish would just die already. Any myths of lighting out there? You just wish.

Would people get over, myths? Let's see. I think, you know, lighting myth, and I don't know how many landscape guys would get into this, but, we run across it quite a bit when we get into inter and all of that. You know, when all of our bulbs, all of our lamps, whatever you want to call them, are, located for enclosed fixtures. Well, once it has an enclosed fixture rating, it doesn't mean that you can take it and stick it in the very smallest enclosure as possible. So, you know, wish that people would just pay a little bit more attention to, things like that. you know, that's something that comes up, you know, over and over again, whether it's a consumer or a contractor. Some of the applications are. Are a little bit, a little bit odd. So that's one myth.

How do you figure out how long an LED will last? How do you

I got a question on that. So when. When you guys are, like, manufacturing products and doing tests and things like that. I remember when LED came out. I don't know that I still have a good, grasp on this, but it's like, oh, they're going to last 30,000 hours, 50,000 hours, whatever it is. how do you. How do you project that out? Because it's one thing if you're in a restaurant where it's always 70 degrees, no moisture, like, no humidity, whatever it is, then you put that same lamp in a fixture that's baking in a fixture, out in the weather with storms and everything else. how is that testing done? How do you figure out how long an LED will last?

Oh, that's another great question. I don't know if that fell into the whole myth thing or whatever, but a lot of cases when you look at something, whether it's a fixture or if it's ah, a lamp, it'll say lamp life 50,000 hours. And what that really means is that in most cases the chip itself has gone through testing so that it will perform to a certain milestone. And that testing is a 6,000 hour test. And then they can run an algorithm and estimate how long that particular chip would last. But then you take that chip and put it in a fixture or in a lamp or something like that. And that's called in situ in situation. it's a term that used for an application. Not too many people run that test. we did because we have to pass certain, California standards for performance and all of that. So our actual bulbs go and get the 6,000 hour test done. And what happens is every 1,000 hours somebody will come in and they'll do a measurement and all that. And typically it's done by limit depreciation. And if you get to either 70% or, or 6,000 hours, whatever comes first. Well, ours have measured out to about 36,000 hours. So in a fixture, our lamps last 36,000 hours. If you do the math, you know, it's either, you know, eight hours a day, it's like five, six years, 24, seven. It's like three years, two years, three years. So yes, there is a big difference between that and it all has to do with actual performance testing.

And that's when the actual, like chipset is married with a driver as well. Right.

Because to a particular driver inside a, ah, particular bulb, then you know, this bulb will be tested with 20 other bulbs and you know, it will go through that 6,000 hour test. So most LED chipsets will get to 50 or 60,000 hours. And a lot of people who produce either components or fixtures will say that they're their product will last 50 or 60,000 hours. But when you actually put it inside of something, it's going to be a lot less because there's heat that's contained inside and, and all of that.

So, and so even like the test you're talking about where you get 36,000 hours, which I'm trying to do the math in my head, isn't, isn't 2,000 hours about 8. Oh, no, because I forgot about weekends. But I thought it was longer than I thought it was, like 15 years or something like that. but let's say this. So you do that test that's only for your lamp. Like, if they go to put it in a fixture that doesn't have heat dissipation, then it would be fair to say it's probably going to last shorter period of time, right?

That's correct. That's absolutely correct.

Okay. So, yeah, I guess, yeah. Because, And I don't know, like, do a lot of manufacturers still just say 40, 50,000 hours just because that's what the LED's rated at? Because I think that's probably true. I think those things are going to last forever. But it is.

Yes, they do. They use that. And I don't know unless somebody has to submit their product to a third party for California's Title 20, Title 24 testing, I don't know of any manufacturers, especially in landscape industry, that submit their product.

You guys have to do that just mainly because the 120 volt side of your business.

Yes, but we do it with 120 and 12 volt.

Let's talk about Kelvin, uh, Cri, beam spread

Okay, let's talk about. So we're gonna, we're gonna get nerdy. We're already, we already got into the nerdy part of it, so we're gonna, we're gonna stay nerdy for a bit and then we're gonna talk a little business and stuff and making money. But, to stick with the nerdy plan, let's talk about Kelvin, Cri, beam spread. Like, I think if you're, if you've been in the industry and done a bunch of installs, like, you pretty much have it down. But some of the newer guys, they're still new terms. how, how important? Like what, why should someone pay attention to Kelvin? Why should someone pay attention to Cri? what benefits are they going to have as a business owner, a designer, salesperson, in understanding those things maybe a little bit deeper than surface level?

Well, Kelvin is, you know, a measurement of color, Color, temperature. The lower the Kelvin, the warmer, or more yellow something is 2700 and 3000 is the most common. the higher you go, the more white or blue those lights will get to be. And those are real important things, especially when you get to lighting different types of foliage or the houses or whatever. You know, you could have a solid white house and, you know, put a 5500k light source on it and, you know, it looked like a 7 11, but, you know, conversely, you know, you get down to 1800k on a red brick house and you know that wouldn't look very good either. So your Kelvin is definitely very important. It's a measure of color or brightness of that white.

what percentage of, of products are you like is, is it like 93,000k or like what, what are most people buying?

it's something that we watch very carefully now. We sell our products worldwide so we'll just, in general when we, we take a, we take a look at the color temperatures and you know, what's doing what and all of that, we'll throw out the oddities, we'll throw out the 4000s and the 5007-00 and all that because they're more or less special effects just like the red greens and blues. But in exterior lighting it's it's about 6,000 43,000 to 2700. In interiors, it's actually a lot closer. It's almost closer to 50 50. But then you take that one step further and you go from a demographic standpoint, if you were to go like where you live, mountainous states, Las Vegas, it's all 2700. You can't give away a 3000k lamp anywhere in that area. Just like if you go down to Florida, let's say nobody's using 2700, it's all 3000k now. Also what we've noticed is based on consumer and where the consumer is, if you have where that consumer is from, if you've got somebody that's from know, South America or from Europe, you know, they're more used to whiter, brighter lights. And so they'll bring you know, 3500 or 4000 kelvin on the inside of the house. So it's really all over the map.

When it comes to you know, landscape lighting. I, I'm always trying to figure out like, are people in this to be like lighting designer of the year or are they trying to scale a business? And in my opinion if you want to scale a business, it's really hard to do as a dialed in artist where you're like okay, Tom was saying different foliage. So over here I'm going to change this color temperature. I'm going to do a 40 degree there, but I'm going to do 60 degree here and 20 degree here. And like everything's just dialed in right. And that's hard to dial in that sales process because you can't like go in and do it quicker where I'M more like that's, it's just a 40 degree. Just like you could pretty much do 40 degree everywhere, 60 degree down lights, 40 degree up lights and you know, everything 2, 700k, that I can scale, I can help people learn, design and sell it. If there's maintenance issues, we already have that on the truck. We're not having to have a huge inventory. but I'm curious, from your standpoint, do you see people buying more custom that way one offs or they just buying kind of the same product over and over?

you know, talking to somebody, fairly large company here in Charleston that, that will do it. you know, they will always use, you know, 5 watt, 36 or 60 degree. You know, that's their bread and butter. So they know what's going on based on what they're doing. However, if they get a special project for a hotel or something like that where they have to either go up a little bit higher on a building where you have a special type of tree, then they'll customize it, but that's maybe a smaller part of their overall business. Their bread and butter is, you know, what you talked about before.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean I, I think anyone who's really looking to scale you, you just kind of fall back to that. It's like, all right, we're 5 watt, 36 degree and 60 degrees all day long. Obviously you get into some, you know, special projects, you make the exception. But for the everyday, install 10, 20 thousand dollar install, whatever. it just makes sense to kind of keep it simple. So.

Right.

what do you think about no, I'm not gonna ask you that question. You got, have you had any horror stories of where, you know, people maybe didn't know about you or they decided to go on, go the cheap route when it comes to bulbs. And it backfired, either you know, literally or metaphorically.

I mean we're constantly replacing, you know, inexpensive lamps all the time. you know, from, you know, large jobs, casinos and things like that where they, people have tried to do things on the cheap. and they're going ahead and having to replace the LED lamps as quickly as they would replace a halogen lamp. I mean think a lot of people have learned their lessons that way. crazy, crazy horror stories are things that they'll go ahead and they'll do something that an installer will do something that a lighting designer has specified and they'll go ahead and just order the product and it could order, know an awful lot of it, you know, 15, $20,000 worth of product and install it and it doesn't work. It doesn't work out for one reason or another. Whereas if they consulted us in advance, and you know, that's something that we offer, we have to offer is, you know, when you get into a lot of these specialty fixtures, especially interiors and all of that, where you generate a lot more heat and things like that. So the horror story comes up with when somebody buys a product and then, it doesn't work out and they've got to buy it all over again.

Yeah. Okay.

Do you guys manufacture halogen still? No, we never have

you mentioned halogen. Is, is halogen still a thing? Do you guys manufacture halogen still?

No, we never have. I know maybe with these. We've joked around and said maybe with all these tariffs and everything, we need to open up halogen factory here in the United States again. But you know, there's a few people out there that I think are getting rid of their old halogen inventory. But you know, there's not much of that going on because you gotta, you gotta think that, you know, standard halogen lamp lasts like 860 hours, let's say. So you're out there once or maybe twice a year replacing lamps. That's pretty crazy.

Yeah, when I started my business, that's what we did. And we, we would go, and sometimes we. Our maintenance plan like was, we were building it at that time, but we had some maintenance people or people on our maintenance plan where we'd go out and just change every single bulb every year because they, then they don't have to deal with the calls every few months or six months or whatever. And some of those lasted. Like we had other ones that didn't do that and they had, they would last like they were five, six years.

You know, they're rated at 700 hours, but they, they out way outperformed that, you know.

Well, you know, with le. With halogen lamps in General, whether it's 12 volt or 120 volt, you would specify a product to be made to, let's just say 13 volts versus 12 volts. And then you run it at 11 volts. All right, so yes, you're getting less light output, but that lamp will last like six times the amount of. If you had just burned it at 12 volts.

Yeah, we, we found this chart one time and it showed us that. It's like, hey, if you volt this at this. I think it was an Ushio brand that showed us that if you volt it at 12. This is the life. 11.9, 11.8. And so I, I think we came out to like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna volt everything at like 11.2 because that was like maximum. And that, that way if, if a bulb did go out, it sends, you know, more voltage to the other ones. Like we, we kind of had that, we played that game. Who knows if it was accurate or not, but trying to maximize the, the lifetime of, of the bulbs.

What's the uh, what's the latest on the tariffs?

What's the what's the latest on the tariffs? You mentioned tariffs. What's the, what's the tariff update? I know that thing's been like, everyone was in shock and awe.

Ah.

And like, what are we going to do? And then some, some of the tariff prices were lower, some of them were higher. how did you guys manage through all that?

well, light bulbs in general only carried, I mean pre Trump 1.0 carried a 2% tariff. there was a provision in Trump 1.0 that it skipped over LED lamps. However, fixtures got 25% tariff. So come to today where there is now a 30% on everything coming from China. So the fixture manufacturers are up to 55% and now we're up to 32%. There was a short period of time where we brought product in at 145% tariff and then shortly after it arrived, the tariffs were dropped. So we were basically paying people to take our bulbs away, you know, so, you know, it's, it's it's pretty crazy right now. And we're on a government committee with the American Lighting association, just reviewing a lot of different things and we're talking at least once or twice a month about tariffs and how we can have these things. you know, how we can take the lighting in generate lighting industry in general and make some type of a petition to congressmen and things like that, senators, to see if we can get things minimized or whatnot based on technologies that are only available in that part of the world. So there's that, that's going on. behind the scenes of that there's ah, there's something called Section 232, which is another tariff that has to do with the importation of aluminum and steel, where they will take, if you have a fixture, let's say, and it's made out of aluminum, you're, you're going to have to estimate the amount of aluminum and the cost of that aluminum and they're going to apply a tariff to that, so that's coming down the road. And then we just heard of something similar to copper. So it's going to be, it's going to be pretty interesting. what shakes out the rest of this year?

So how does the the announcement of tariffs and, and things like that, how does that affect you? Like the, the supply and, and not, I guess, the demand. That's what I'm asking is like people hear about it, are they rushing to you saying, hey, can I hurry and buy this before the prices go up? Does that, does that affect your business at all?

Well, it did a couple of months ago where, we basically doubled our sales for one month just because everybody was panic buying. You know, as I was mentioning earlier, it's the, it was like the, the toilet paper shortage during COVID that everybody was experiencing and you know, it just caused, you know, problems in the supply chain and, and all of that. But you know, we're, we're, you know, getting through all of that and we're just having to bring in, you know, product a lot quicker.

Quick Hit Controversials is a lightning round with Tom Garber

All right, cool. I think it's time to play our new game. It's not a game, it's just a lightning round. It's called quick Hit Controversials. That's right. We're stirring it up here. We're gonna get Tom's opinion on some of these, very, very controversial topics in the exterior illumination industry. you down to play? You down for the questions?

Sure, why not? I can always pass, right?

No, it's, it's one or the other or it's a yes or no. You know, like we want to see your, your level of commitment here. Like are you willing to, to go to battle over your opinions?

Got it.

All right, quick hit on controversials. Lightning round with Tom Garber.

Should landscape lighting be more regulated? Um, by who? By you

2700 or 3000K 3000 integrated fixtures innovation or installation nightmare?

Installation. Nightmare. Would you expect me to say.

I was already pre written the answer. bulb or lamp?

What did Thomas Edison invent?

Okay, you get one beam spread to use the rest of your Life. What angle M 36 degree are RGBW fixtures enhancing design or killing good taste?

Killing good taste.

Oh, wow, you just offended half the listening audience.

No, I don't think so.

Maybe 10. All right, UL standards. Crucial for safety or red tape slowing down innovation 100 crucial for safety.

What's not fair about that question is I sit on the standards committee for several UL standards. So yeah, it's, it's, it's definite.

I already knew what you were going to say, but, you know, there's other people in the industry that would say otherwise. I'm just saying, you know, I'd like.

To bring them on. Let's have the one on one between them.

All right. Yeah, let's do it. all right. Lighting brands that sell to the public. Good for the industry or cancer to the industry?

Both. No, I would say good for the industry.

Wow. Offending the other half of our audience. smart bulbs in landscape lighting. The future or just a phase?

Just a phase.

Is higher CRI really worth the extra cost or just spec sheet flexing?

Who says it has to be extra cost?

Oh, mic drop, mic drop. Henry Allen all day. should every landscape lighting job have dimming built in?

Doesn't it already? No, no, not necessary.

Yeah, and I. I don't know. I. Well, maybe we come back to that later. This is supposed to be quick hits. Light pollution with landscape lighting. Real threat or just a buzzword for hippies?

I think it's more of a buzzword. You get more light pollution out of street lights. Municipalities that use these. Some of these street lights that really promote a lot of light pollution, but I don't think it's there with landscape lighting.

Yeah. should landscape lighting be more regulated?

by who?

By you? No, by. By a government agency?

No.

Should lighting be designed for longevity or replaceability?

Replaceability.

There we go. There we go.

Is 12 volt still the future or are we overdue for a shift

and finally, is 12v still the future or are we overdue for a shift?

I could go either way on that. There's a lot. There's a lot of work that would have to be done to shift away from 12 volt. You're talking National Electric code, you're talking UL standards and. And all of that. So.

So maybe it. It would be good to do. But we're so far down the path with everything the way it is with 12 volt. Might just be worth sticking with.

It might be.

Okay. sweet. Well, guys, that was another lightning round. Quick hit, controversial. So I wouldn't be surprised if you get some hate mail. You know, that's on you. That's not on me. That's on you.

Tom g@emeredyallen. com.

Send your hate mail meal hate mail to tom g.ra. com. no, that was good. I. You know, some of these things, you know, like, light pollution, like, the dark sky thing drives me crazy. Because, like. Yeah, I mean, it's not that I don't care about the environment, but, like, they're talking about, like, birds, you know, changing their migration. Patterns. I'm like, that's not from our landscape lighting system. That's literally from New York City and the birds flying into the windows of the office buildings and stuff like that. That's, that's different level, of light pollution or when you're flying in. Every airport that I land in has that like, district of warehouses where those freaking lights mounted. Just going crazy. Right? So, yeah, I, I truly think it's just a buzzword for hippies at this point. Well, thanks for, doing that. Any, any, any ones you want to clarify or dig into.

no, I, you know, just like I'd always want to hear, you know, people's opinion towards, you know, the various standards when you get into UL or whatnot, because it's all based on safety. so I don't think it's red tape whatsoever. but on the other hand, you know, working at Kichler and at Quizzelle, being in, you know, part of the engineering departments there, we had internal, test labs. We could do our own testing and we could avoid a lot of red tape. And we learned a lot of things. You know, people getting it, go into UL and whatever, and they'll be intimidated to talk to them or do this or do that. It's just like, you know, it's, it's not that tough.

So, you know, you got your engineering background, like you said, you worked at multiple companies. But you know, what, what inspired you to go from, engineer to entrepreneur and, and launch Emory Allen?

Probably the same thing that everybody does. It's just like hating working for somebody else. You know, you're gonna stop complaining about, you know, working for somebody else and all the stupid decisions that they make. Then, put your money where your mouth is and, you know, do it yourself.

Yeah, you're like, I could do this better. And how's it been going for you? Do you, do you ever miss the, the days of, like, are you, are you a bad boss to yourself?

What do you mean a bad boss?

You make yourself work exceedingly long hours, underpaid, torture, torture yourself, or like, are you, are you a good boss to yourself?

No. You know, in the beginning, you know, we were probably putting in, or I was putting in 16, 18 hour days and all that, and did that for a couple of years straight. But, you know, now it's you know, maybe 11 hour, 12 hour days, so it's a lot better. But every Thursday afternoon I get to go out on the boat and kind of take it easy and, and relax. So, you know, it's not too bad.

Thursday afternoons, your. Your time off.

That is Thursday afternoons.

That's your reward, your visionary time.

Absolutely.

Nice. That's awesome.

Before you entered the landscape lighting industry, how did you build trust

you know, I feel like, when I ask people that question, like, why'd you. Why did you get into, like, manufacturing? Or like that on that, like, the side of the industry you're in, almost everyone says, well, you know, number one, yeah, like, no, like, people didn't want to work for themselves or whatever. But then the thing is, like, well, the product wasn't there, you know, just wasn't quality. All that. Like, someone's probably going to start a. A company next year and say that, like, all the products out there were garbage and all this stuff, so we had to go do it. But how did you build trust in this industry that already had? I mean, there's already big players. Before you entered the landscape lighting industry, how did. How did you guys come in and build trust with everyone?

You know, I kind of had a step up just because I've been in the industry for so long. And, you know, I think, you know, one of the reasons why we wanted to start Emory Allen and what we wanted it to become, m. Is, you know, being in product development, for all of these years. There is always a mystique behind, miniature lamps in general and what you could get and what was available and whatnot. And it was pretty pathetic, tell you the truth. So we just had a real opportunity with, you know, LED lamps to be able to go, you know, very deep in the, product selection and very wide. But, you know, one of the things that really helped us out was, our relationships with people that we've dealt with in the past. Like, for instance, even today, you know, majority of our sales reps in the, interior part of our business are people that I had worked with previously at either Kichler or Quizzelle. And I can remember, you know, that week or a couple of weeks when we were starting up, calling these guys one by one and asking them if they would be interested in, you know, carrying a line of miniature lamps. And, you know, a lot of these guys have been my friends for many, many years. And, you know, I didn't get many, if any, nose, so it worked out real, real well.

That's awesome. You've done a good job. I mean, just from an outside perspective, I can tell you're working like crazy and out there shaking hands, you're at all the events you're at. Ah, you know, you know, you're getting your name out there. And, and it's working because people love your brand. And even in on the Facebook groups, when the newbies are asking like, hey, I need a replacement for this or that, it's like, oh, get with Tom G. @emryallen. com. so, I'll bet it feels good to see the. The fruits of your labors, so.

No, it really does. And, you know, one of the great things was being able to dial the whole family into it. you know, the ownership of Emory Allen is, my wife, my son and myself. And, you know, and we also have a, daughter that came in a year or two later than us starting. And, Matt's done a great job with all the sales and marketing, and we've got a great marketing, manager, Paul, who puts together all of our catalogs and Instagram and all that, and he just does a phenomenal job. And, you know, they really think outside the box. And, you know, if, you know, I certainly couldn't think of the things that they do. You know, they have the newer generation and all that. You know, my son always says, you know, dad, that's the way you used to think. You know, this is the way the new generation, this is what they want to see. And you know what? They're 100% right. They're 100 right. So when it comes to that type of advertising and putting things together, you know, they all do a great job.

Nice.

Do you have any insight into what's coming down the pipe in LED technology

Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens. I mean, AI is just taken over and, the. The speed of information and development and everything else is just exponential at this point. I don't know that we know, but, I mean, do you have any insight like what's, what's coming down the pipe in terms of LED technology that, you know, designers and contractors should, should care about? Is there any. Any insight there?

no, not really. I mean, it. A lot of this, you know, falls on us as manufacturers, and it goes down to the LED chipsets and whatnot is, you know, where's the technology advancements and all that? And that's just trying to produce a lot more lumens per watt out of various types of product. I mean, you know, there's products now that, you know, can produce, you know, several hundred lumens per watt. You know, the trick is to pull the heat out of that and so that it will function properly. So, you know, there's a lot of that efficiencies going on, different types of drivers and, and whatnot. So, you know, a Lot of the new technologies really are falling on us and see what we can do with it.

Emory island started lighting industry in the landscape industry

And then I guess finally, I mean, you know, at the beginning of the show, I read, read our thing, about your, pro series fixtures. is that something that you guys will continue to do? You've got your, you got a couple fixtures right now, but, should we expect to see more of things like that from Emory island, or are you guys,

You know, we're going to be introducing some accessories to those fixtures that allow you to, mount them into the ground or whatever. We have a stake and some other, some cowls and some other mounting devices. but you know what people ask, you know, why did we do this? We're a bulb company and all that. Yeah, I, Yeah, I started lighting industry in the landscape industry.

Right.

You know, back in the late 80s, and it's kind of in my blood a little bit. So, if we see an opportunity, for something that's missing in the lighting industry and doesn't have to be, particularly the landscape lighting industry, you know, something that people are asking for over and over and over again, know we're going to take a crack at it and see if we can come up with something that will solve, you know, a certain type of problem.

Nice. Well, word on the street is people like it. So I think it was a good, good, thing for you. So that's awesome.

Good deal.

If you run into an issue, you need some help troubleshooting

Well, I think we got everything on my list. Is there anything else we need to talk about on your end?

I don't think so. I think we covered just about everything that we were talking about. Talked about the failures, the myths and all of that.

So, I pretty much tell everyone every week how to get a hold of you, but if, if people do want to get a hold of you and they do want that discounted contractor price or they just want to geek out with the Tom Garber. How do they get a hold of.

You, tom gary allen. com or give me a call? my phone number is published. You know, I'll get phone calls from, you know, our customers and all that, whether it's dealing with our LEDs or they just have a problem in general. you know, we're happy to help work through that one way or the other.

So, yeah, that's huge. I mean, there's, there's a lot to like about you and your family and the Emory Allen brand, but the fact that you'll jump on those calls and do troubleshooting, I mean, guys it's like having, you know, an engineer on speed dial. So if. If you run into an issue, you need some help troubleshooting, solving a problem, definitely take Tom up on his offer and reach, out to him. So really appreciate you coming on the show today. Really appreciate all your support with the podcast with Light It Up Expo, Secret Summit, all the events that we do together. it's been. I'm just extremely, extremely grateful for. For you and. And your family and Great, show. Thanks for coming on here, Tom.

Well, thank you. We all do appreciate it.

All right, guys, thanks for being part of Lighting for Profits, and we'll see you next week on the podcast. Now go do something. Keep moving forward. Make your life, make your business better today than it was yesterday. Let's go.