Lighting for Profits - Episode 238

Keith Rosser shares his journey from building a family-centered life to leading a thriving team in the landscape lighting industry. With years of experience and a passion for excellence, he reveals how Landscape Lighting Pro grew into a strong, purpose-driven business—and what it means to take it to the next level by partnering with a national leader. This episode is all about growth, legacy, and lighting the path forward.

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Episode Transcript

Welcome to Lighting for Profits. All light. Powered by EmeryAllen

Welcome to Lighting for Profits.

All light. All light.

All light.

Powered by EmeryAllen

Here is your host, Ryan Lee.

We're asking for reviews on Apple and Spotify for today's show

All, right, all right, all right, let's go. It's go time. It's time to go to war. Lighting for Profits Powered by EmeryAllen. Guys, I'm super excited for today's show. We got Mr. Keith Rosser. He's been on the show before. Keith has been in the industry. I guess we'll have to ask him 20 some years. And so anytime I get to you know, really this show is so awesome because I get to just ask all the questions that I think most people have but usually don't, aren't willing to ask. And I'm like, tell me more. And so he's got tons of experience, excited to pick his brain. Today we're going to do something a little bit different than we've done in the past. we're going to do kind of a lighting walkthrough. Okay. So if you're listening, that's totally cool. You should, you should listen. But, if you are wanting, to kind of get some visuals because I'm going to share my screen, we're going to actually walk through some projects of Keith's and so, you might want to watch it, you might want to go to YouTube, you might want to go to my Facebook and watch this episode because, we're going to be talking about lighting design and some challenges with design and how he overcame those on certain projects and, and stuff like that. So it's going to be a more visual podcast than normal. But thank you guys so much for your support. Truly, truly appreciate. is my favorite part of the week, to be able to do this show and nerd, out, geek out on lighting and have amazing guests on here. So thank you guys so much for your support. as always, we're asking for reviews on Apple and Spotify. that would be awesome if you, if you could. We're up to like 104 now, so that's pretty cool. And then 50 something on Spotify. So, give me that review. You know, I don't know if you guys believe this, but I, I believe that if you do something good for others, then it comes back the law of reciprocity. So, ah, hook me up if you've gotten value.

Next week I'm going to this amazing AI training hosted by Jonathan Wisman

So again, in just a few minutes we're gonna have Mr. Keith Rosser, landscape lighting pro of Utah, here, local to, Utah. He's in Sandy, Utah. And, excited to have a conversation with him, before I have him on. So a couple things. Next week I'm gonna be going to this amazing AI training hosted by Jonathan Wisman. Jonathan is the author of the Sales Boss. He's also, owned and sold several businesses. Just already, had an awesome life and he's still young. And so, I'm going to this because AI is taking over. Okay. And I feel like I'm behind. I mean, I use like ChatGPT and I use Claude and I, I use some AI and automations and stuff like that, but I wouldn't consider myself an expert by any means. So I'm going next week to level up my game. And if you want to go to that, and you want a discounted ticket, send me a dm, send me a message, an email, whatever it is. And I can get you that code. And it's going to be in Phoenix. I can get you the link and everything else, but I'm going to that. And the reason I'm going is because again, I feel like I'm a little bit behind on the AI curve. And But as AI expands and grows and takes over the world, one thing that I think is going to grow and even be more important than ever is community. Okay? And that's why I'm excited for the future of Landscape Lighting Secrets. the future of Light It Up Expo, Lighting for Profits is because we're all about community here. Okay? in fact, I've got to experience just in the last like 24 hours, I've got to experience quite a bit of community and it's been awesome. last night, good, friend Ryan Russo, he's also a member of Landscape Lighting Secrets, shot me a text. He's in town for some permanent lighting training and Jason Zinn was there. I, went out and just hung out with them for a couple hours last night. And it was just cool, you know, it's just cool bonding with, other nerdy lighting business people, right? Because you have a lot of similar interests and you're going through the same things and, and things are hard and things are fun and things are easy at the same time, like, everything is just like, happening and, and you're going through this kind of, this life together, right? today, this morning, I got to hang out with J.C. and Angela Chinowski. They're in town. they're helping out with an event that Sam Taggart is throwing. He's got this thing called A business boot camp. And so I'm there today. I left to come do the show and then I'm going, back tonight and then I'm, at his event again tomorrow. And it's. Man, I'm just, I'm just grateful for community, because, you know, obviously I have my own communities I put together, but I'm also a part of others where I'm an attendee. Like, I'm there to learn, I'm there to soak it up. I need someone to, help me out. Okay. And so this morning was just, honestly, it was transformational for me. Sam, he's been on the show before, so if you don't know who he is, go look him up. You're honestly missing out if you're not following him. go back and listen to the show that he was on, Lighting for Profits again, it's Sam Taggart. and he thought, you know, he, he's ah, this the founder of Door to Door Experts. So he talks about like, you know, knocking doors and growing your business that way. But honestly, this whole morning we didn't talk about knocking doors. We talked a lot about systems. He talked a lot about leadership. And, what I want to do is I just want to share like three or four things, like one liners, like just writer downers that I wrote down.

He talked about three to seven year sprints in business

And then there's one that I want to kind of focus on just for the last couple minutes before we have Keith on, a couple things that he said. He said, you don't have an employee problem, you have a leadership problem. Okay. A lot of times we think, oh, man, my guys, I just don't know why they don't get it. But it's like it never goes away even if you get a new person in that place. So maybe it's not a them problem, maybe it's a you problem. he also said, one of his friends told him actually he was golfing with Ryan Pineda, if you guys knew who that is. And Ryan told him, he said, look at life and business, like three to seven year sprints. And I really like that. Three to seven year sprints because I think a lot of us kind of get stuck and we just start like making money in business and then you don't really have a goal. And then you tell yourself things like, ah, it takes time and, you know, it's a marathon. And it's like, no, it shouldn't be like that. Like, build your business like you're going to sell it. And then if you don't sell it in three to seven years, that's fine, you can have mailbox money. But why not just sprint for three to seven years, get it built to be an actual business, not a job, and then you can do what you want with it. If you don't want to sell, that's fine, you don't have to. But at least it's not a job. At least it's a business. And I really appreciated that because I, I feel like. So I'm, I'm like going on year six now of landscape lighting secrets, and it feels like 18 months. I feel like I just started, right? And it kind of like a kick in the ass for me to be like, what am I doing? Like, I was sprinting before and now I'm just kind of coasting. It's like, I going to sprint for a couple more years and then I'm done. Like, that's what I'm going to do. Okay, so that was cool. he talked about stop adding. Like a lot of us just add to our business instead of multiply. And he talked about some different examples for that in terms of math, like why, like grow by 10% when you could literally double, triple, quadruple, like 10x your business with certain moves. Okay? And I'm not have time to break it all down, but just something that I put for my, my own notes. Business is the product of you. So if, like, your health is not in line, your personal relationship with your spouse, your kids, your friends, like, if you are not taking care of yourself physically, financially, faithfully, whatever, whatever your core things is for you, like, your business is probably going to be unstable as well. speaking of community, he said, listen, you don't have to suffer alone, okay? Solitude is the devil's advocate, okay? And so business is hard no matter what, okay? But it's just way easier when you have, when you have a community, when you're around your peers, when you're around other people fighting the same fight as you.

Managing systems, not people, was an epiphany for me

And so finally, the one that I really want to focus on just for a minute, is he said, manage systems, not people. And this was like such a huge epiphany for me because I'm like, man, I've always kind of sucked at managing people. Like, I'm a way better visionary than I am a manager and even better than a technician. Like, I'm a visionary, okay? And so I'm like, I'll work on, I'll be a better leader. And I thought being A better leader was like, oh, being a better manager. But that's totally different things. And so when he says manage systems, not people, he showed us this really cool example he has. He had a volunteer come up, and he's got this stage, okay? And basically what he did, he said, all right, I'm going to give you, he had $20 on the stage, and he got these Matchbox cars. And he said, okay, I'm going to sell you these matchbox cars for $2 each. Every time you, you know, roll one across the stage, maybe it's 15, 20ft? yeah, maybe 15ft. Roll it across the stage. It costs you two bucks. If you hit the $20 bill, then you get the 20 bucks. So you really only have to hit the thing, like, one out of ten times, and you're gonna break even or win, right? So he goes, do you want to play? And he said, yeah, okay. So it cost him 8 bucks to play the game, to potentially win. He gets four cars. He rolls them one at a time. Two of them just, like, rolled over, didn't go anywhere. They're Matchbox cars going on carpet, right? One of them was, like, the really good speed, but it missed to the left. And one, of them, I'm not kidding, was, like, going right at it. And at the last second, it turned away and missed, right? And it was almost like it was scripted out perfectly. Now, what does this have to do with managing systems? Not people? Well, these cars are like our people, okay? And we. We expect to hire. We all want to hire a talent. Like, when we're thinking about hiring a salesperson or a technician or anyone for that matter, in our business, we're like, man, we want the best, right? Well, the reality is, sometimes the best is not available. the A talent already works for someone else. The A talent already has their own business. Okay? So we've one. Our expectations are off, but there's a lot of bees. There's a lot of really good bees and a lot of really good C's out there. And we're like, oh, yeah, we don't want that. Well, he showed this cool thing. Have you guys seen the. The tracks that Matchbox cars can go on? You have, I don't think I have one at my house now, but I've had them in the past where you can, like, turn. You can do, like, loops and stuff like that, but it's a little track that keeps it going in one direction. So he pulls out the track and he lays it across about 75% of the stage, he goes, what do you think's gonna happen now that there's an actual system in place, that there's a path to follow, There's a track for this, this car to go. And literally the first car, he pushes it, boom, wins the money. Right now, this was an awesome visual example because most of us, again, are dealing with imperfect people. We're dealing with Bs or Cs. We expect them to be A's and they're just not. But we're not stepping up as leaders to put the proper systems in place to keep them on target. And then we're like, man, what's wrong with this guy? What's wrong with this person? What are they doing? What are they going over here? Why are they veering off? Like, don't they know this is where we're gonna go? Right? And it's not about managing people, it's about managing systems. And for me, it was just this huge epiphany, this huge, mind blowing thing. It's like the one nugget I needed, not just for today, but almost like the month or the year to be like, oh, duh, like, this is huge. So that's going to change a lot of things for me on how I manage my companies and how I teach others to manage theirs. Because it truly is about managing the systems, not managing the people. And then I don't have time to go through it all. And that's why I'm at his business boot camp. But he's breaking down, okay, these are the systems. These are the five systems that you need to manage if you want to build a team, if you want to build culture, if you want these things to happen. So, I was just grateful for the invite. I was grateful for the opportunity. I'm extremely grateful for community. before I started doing what I'm doing now, when I had a lighting business, I'm telling you, I would have been like the. I mean, I'm not like a hater, but, like, if you would have said, hey, you should join our program, I'd be like, no, you're. You're dumb. Like, why would I join a community? It just didn't make. I just didn't understand the value of it. but as most of you know, I hired my first coach to help me start this, and it was transformational. It made. Just made everything so much faster for me in terms of results. I will always. I will always have a coach or be part of a community. it's just, it's like the cheat code, you know? And, and it's not even cheating. It's just the way, when you, when you look at just how humans have evolved, there's always been a leader, okay? There's always been someone in tribe or whatever else to be like, hey, I'm going to go, I'm going to be the one that goes into this dark forest and figures stuff out. Follow me. Right? And so, I think it's just really important, no matter where you're at in life, no matter what level you're at in business, is to go find a community. And this isn't just a plug for Landscape Lighting Secrets, of course it's a lighting show. Of course it's a lighting community. Like, I think you should be. But if you hate me, if you hate landscape lighting secrets, whatever, go find a community. Like, it's changed my life.

Landscape Lighting Secrets has helped over 65 million people grow their businesses

It's changed hundreds of members of people that have joined Landscape Lighting Secrets. I don't know what the exact total is now, but it's over 62, 65 million that we've helped our, our members generate. Over 65 million. And to me, that number is not just a number. It represents so much more than that. It represents the impact that these companies have had on their team members, on their community, on how they approach life, and, and what they're able to do with that and how they're able to impact their own personal families. So, I highly, highly recommend you are part of a community of some sort. and engage if you're in a community, like, it's not life changing if you don't show up, if you don't engage, if you don't participate, like, you've got to get vulnerable. You've got to be the one that goes up on the stage and says, all right, I'll throw the car and look like an idiot in front of everybody. Like, you've got to be willing to get vulnerable. And when you do, man, like, things change and things change very, very quickly. And that's when your life goes from like, oh, little small, gradual additional increases to exponential instead of addition, you're multiplying and you're seeing growth. That doesn't even make sense. Okay, Kind of like how does a video go from space through time to my phone and I'm able to watch it on YouTube. YouTube. It doesn't make sense. I don't understand your business. Your life can change like that where it just doesn't make sense. It can truly be exponential. So that's all I got for you. just like I said, highly, highly recommend you guys join, a community. Stop waiting for, for things to happen. That's, that's not a, hoping, waiting. Those aren't strategies you need to get intentional, with your business. Hey, listen, you know, friends, don't let friends install garbage lamps. If you want less callbacks, more referrals and repeat business, stick with Emory Allen. Emory Allen makes premium LED lamps for lighting professionals who demand the best. Don't settle for less. Upgrade your designs and installations today with Emory Allen. Reach out to jackson lry allen .com to learn more and take advantage of their contractor pricing. Just email jackson lry allen. com and, he'll hook you up. And don't forget to mention that you heard about him here on Lighting for profits. Jackson lry allen. com.

Ryan: We've got lighting expert Keith Rosser on tonight's show

All right, now is the time. Let's get our music going. and this, can be a fun show. Like I said, we got Keith Rosser coming on and we're going to talk all things business, lighting design, growing our businesses. So let's go. Welcome, welcome to the show, Mr. Keith Rosser. What's up, Keith?

Hey, Ryan. Not too much. How are you, buddy?

Oh, That's my favorite day of the week, man. Lighting for profits day.

That's right. Never miss an episode. If not Tuesday, afternoon, it's generally going to be Wednesday morning, on my way to the office.

I love it. I love it. Yeah, if you're not golfing Tuesday afternoon. Right.

Well, true, true, dad. Nope, that's Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

Well, man, I am really looking forward to this conversation. Anytime I am around you, I learn something new. I love absorbing your experience, your perspective on life. and it's going to be a good one. So thanks for being here.

Keith Rosser is the landscape lighting pro of Utah

Do you, do you want to just do a quick introduction? You've been on the show before. but just do me a favor. Just for those that don't know you, who is Keith Rosser and who is landscape lighting pro of Utah?

Well, Keith Rosser grew up in Southern California, with, been around a, few different areas. Went to school up in, Idaho, Wyoming area, college. Did, some work in Philadelphia, for a few years after and through that and then landed, back in la. Worked for the fire department there for five years and then, decided to come live in the Wasatch front to pursue the mountains and the ski resorts. And I wanted to live and work in an area that had a vast enough City to give me the experiences I wanted there, but close enough to the wilderness and to some of the best mountains on earth to ski. And did that. Retired from the fire department in Utah after 20 years of service in Utah. have a family, three wonderful kids, three grandkids. And we all live here in the Salt Lake Valley. And my wife and I, and we. We just love it. We love the outdoors, love the mountains, which. Which led to outdoor lighting. Oddly. and I built this company. I started it in 2003, four. Right in there. Had a lawn fertilizing company for about seven years that we sold a Trugreen Chem lawn. And we were like, what are we going to do now? Because we had just started doing holiday lighting, our last year of lawn fertilizing to keep our guys working year round in the northern climate. And when we sold that off, we're like, okay. Holiday lighting wasn't sexy for me. It was just a means to keep our guys working. And because of my holiday lighting, affiliates and people that I started to learn through that or introduced, get introduced to, that really appealed to me. It was about artwork, it was about working with clients, not with dandelions and growing grass. It was pretty fun and exciting for me. And so we immediately dove in and just started building this company to what it is today. And I, was working at the fire department until 2015. I retired almost 11 years ago. This summer will be 11 years and doing this full on. And I thought I had it all. I thought I could balance my company, fire department schedule. I worked. I worked at 4896. I was on days off, four. And on those four days I just powered through lighting and started building a team and systems like you mentioned earlier on your intro tonight or today. And I tell you right, you're spot on with building systems. And then you think you have, Just when you think you have your systems figured out, you realize I need more systems. M. I need systems for me to know what I'm doing every minute and to keep. Keep me in my lane and keep me on target. But. But that is what. When I retired from the fire department is when our business really took off. And I thought I was doing okay, but I realized very quickly that what a difference it made when my full attention was where it needed to be as far as my. My Monday through Friday attention on my business. And that made a big difference for us. And here we are. This is how. That's how we got here. I, love it.

No, I mean, congrats by the way. I mean, you've built an awesome family, you built an awesome business. And it's, it's cool that we get to learn from you today. So. Very cool.

Well, I'll tell you, I learned my son Ty, many of you that know me, know Ty and know that he's helped us build this company along with great team we have here. it's not just us. We have Nina, Sage, others that, that work with us every day in our office and building our, our company. and sometimes we're just putting fires out, so we're doing. Other times we're really working on improvement and and you know, growth and strategic growth and but, but it is unique for Ty and I as a father son team here. And we, luckily he's very patient and he can, he can put up with me and we work well together. So. I think you say the same.

But I understand that congratulations, are in order.

Ryan Rosser earned Penta Million after joining Landscape Lighting Secrets

Darcy told me that you earned your Penta Million award, which is basically for those that don't know. We give out different awards for different levels once people, when they join our program and they hit certain revenue goals. but the Penta million is $5 million after joining Landscape Lighting Secrets. So that, that's a, that's a mega, I don't know, like it feels good for me to recognize you for that because nowhere in business do you get recognized for just working your ass off, you know, so it's for you, it's your team. like you said, it's not just the Keith Rosser show like you, you've built a team there and, and everyone's contributing. And so I just want to recognize you guys for that, for really busting your ass and like putting out the fires and building the systems and then rebuilding the systems and doing all the stuff. Because I tell you, I mean, it is hard to build a business that lasts longer than just a couple years. So the fact that you've made it 20 some years, you've got this Penta million in a really short period of time with us. that's cool. So congratulations to you and your team.

Well, thanks, man. We wouldn't be here without you. Not this quickly. It's, you know, it's. It. And the biggest thing, Ryan, for me it's that gross number doesn't mean a lot. You can move money all day long. You know, it's really trying to Be profitable and be able to build a better company and a better process so that you know, you can't go home at 4 o' clock in the afternoon and, and ah, you can't take weekends and you, you, you can enjoy your family and your, your time I think is, is something that's been really great for me in the last few years. I've enjoyed very much.

How, how did that transition happen? Like you said, like. And it's the same for me. When I started my lighting business, I wasn't a fireman, getting into holiday lighting and stuff like that, but the same thing. I just wanted to make money. I was just like, dude, I gotta just provide for my family. I was not like, no guys, this is about serving people. And like, no, I just, I just needed money. But then there was a, there was a point where I was like, okay, this, this is bigger than just making money and I don't want a job. How did that transition happen for you? When did you start getting intentional on like, hey, this, this has to be bigger than Keith Rosser. This. I, I've got to have systems and processes and people in these places.

I think when I decided, you know, in our fertilizing company we had systems that were pretty straightforward. It's a, it's a washer and repeat cycle. that. And the reason I sold my company is because I think I got about as far as I cared to go. It, it just became so repetitive. And you could say for some people, I think that works well. It's the same, same old same. While they get up, they go, they go home and it just, it lost its appeal to me. And the thing I know I'm in the right business doing what I do now is it never loses its appeal to me. I always love the challenges it brings. I love the fact that every project's different, every client. I get to work one on one with clients where, those relationships are key to me. and you know, when those clients continue to refer their friends or family, their next homes, they're calling us, we're going out. And I have a client, Leanne, who, her husband Terry, that I met with, later. Like Thursday last week. I showed up and I was so excited to see him. M. They're one of my first clients and you know, from probably 18, 19 years ago really. And when I showed up at their door, Leanne opens the door and she's just like, get over here. You know. And they were just. It's so Fun. And we're talking about just life and everything and how they've been and how we're doing, how my kids are doing and grandkids and everybody and, and we hadn't even talked lights. It took 30 minutes to even figure out why I was there. And you know, and then we It was just a great process. And, and that's what I enjoy. That's just what I enjoy. It's a relationship based experience. And I think with life, for me, that brings me a lot of joy and happiness.

I love it, man. Yeah. I mean these businesses are, are crazy because they're. You can have. I mean, it should be about a lifestyle, you know, and if, and if you've got a good lifestyle and you're happy, then that's, that's what this is all about. But absolutely, they tend to kind of want to grab the reins and they tend to want to have a personality of themselves and, and that's why we as leaders have to step up and lead and manage and, and make sure we have these, you know, SOPs in place and stuff like that. Because if not, I mean, they tend, they can just get away from us real quick. So I don't know, like I said, I, I really look up to you. I admire what you've done because I just, I know a lot of businesses that have never, they're ne. They've either never made it as far as you have or they never did and it's. Or they're not going to.

You know, every day I get up, Brian, I say, what are my challenges today? You know, what do I got to do today to be, you know, that 1% better than I was yesterday? What do we, how do we, how do we win today so we can win the week, the year and, and the finish line and how do we get there the right way? And and what does the finish line even look like? You know, and how will, you know when we get there? But, this morning I had a hair. I was getting a haircut by, from my barber, who, who I've been going to for quite a while. And we were talking about a funny thing, systems and processes. And one of the things that came up was, and maybe, maybe we've talked about this before on these calls where he was telling me he gets clients who will call him and say, hey, yeah, can I just get an appointment for you to come to my home and cut my hair because I'm busy, I don't have time to come in. And he'll Tell him, well, I'm busy too, so he has to make the rules. He's like, I gotta lay down the rules because if I don't, I get taken advantage of. And I'm afraid I'll lose clients if I can't meet their demands. He's like, so I'll tell him, I charged 300 to come out to your house and cut your hair. And, you know, and this isn't like, you know, our wives, when they're getting their full color and their whole thing. And my wife won't even show me how much that costs. Yeah. Say too much. She's. She's gonna be listening to this right now. But anyway, he said, he goes, and that's how I control. And they realize, okay, yeah, I can find the time to come in. And I was telling him, I said, you know, years ago, I had to figure that out. I was working fire department, you know, I'm doing it all. I've got kids, I've got everything.

Schedules, places to be, things to get done. And when a client would call and say, I can't do

Schedules, places to be, things to get done. And when a client would call and say, I can't do it during the week, I work for a living and. Or, you know, I'm a doctor, I'm a surgeon, and I. I'm only available Saturday morning, you know, between these hours. And it's like, oh, great, well, I have a tee time. I guess I'm not going to golf today because I got to go do that. Because I got to make a living, got to feed my family. I got to get this done. And what we had to learn a process for that. We had to learn to tell our clients, we don't want to work on the weekend either. And we had to make the rules. Because if you don't, then they're making the rules. They're controlling your life, they're ruining your life. You know, you allow them to do that, you let them sneak in because, you know, putting a roof over my family's head is number one. And that's what I got to do. But when you learn to control situations like that, because you have guidelines and you have a process, and you built a system into that to say, Mr. Smith, we would love to be there at 8:30 on Saturday morning if that's your only option. We understand that. But we also want you to know that for us to come out to visit with you, during our normal hours, there's no fee for that, but we do charge $250 to come out for a consultation, and we can be there on Saturday at 9 o' clock, if that's what's best for you. Every single time you say it, they go, how about Tuesday, 10:30?

Exactly.

You're like, oh, look at that. You found time. and it's just those kind of. This is one of a hundred different examples of, of what systems can do in processes to, I think, mature your business. And people will respect it.

Oh, yeah.

And they'll treat you differently.

Hey, so, we're gonna do, I'm looking forward to this. We're doing a design walkthrough. I think I'm trying to do more of this on, on this show, because I tend to. I'm always talking about business, but, I. I do appreciate lighting design and, and you and I were even just talking right before we went live about other things that relate to design. So, I'm hoping we can get into that.

You sent me over a bunch of images that we're going to walk through

Let me, let me share my screen here if I can figure this out again. Oh, wrong button already. you sent me over a bunch of, I guess just images that we're going to walk through M. See my screen. Does that show up?

Yep.

Okay, sweet. So, the first handful of picks are from one project. Maybe just talk us through what's, going on in the project. Maybe if there was some design challenges along the way. why you decided to take the photos from different angles and stuff like that. This is obviously an interior picture. yeah. Talk us through this project a little bit.

Absolutely.

Keith Pendleton: Client wanted to create unique landscape in Utah

So. So this client, actually, Lance, he's a. A friend of mine, somebody that I worked with on a board and, and got to know him really well. Very successful, individual who, I didn't know. I'd met his wife a few times. Lovely lady. And. But what I came to find, they. When they were built, they. They brought me out when they were building this home and they were in the process of. It was just a foundation at the time. And they really wanted to show me their, their. The natural landscape around them and their dream and what they were envisioning. And it was kind of interesting, because, his wife was telling me that, well, Keith, I'm gonna. Actually, there's a lot of things I want to create and build in my landscape. And she's telling me about all this stuff she wants to create and do. And I'm thinking to myself, and she's sweet, little petite lady, and I'm like, how is she gonna do this? Came to find out she's quite an artist. And. And, she has her own Studio on site where she has like an engine lift inside of this and to. So that she can her sculpture. She creates and builds lifts. These statuary things she creates that are incredible. And So yeah, she's an artist. She wants to be involved. And I didn't take it to heart as seriously I think at the beginning and as I should have and as I got more involved in as the landscape developed, I actually knew the landscape architect and and creator two and the same with Pendleton landscape. They their family is, is piece of this community and their water features are. It's incredible. The Japanese maples I came to find, even before this process and other projects we'd worked on is that they tell their. Basically they share with their clients that if you want to work with our firm, we require you to travel with us to Oregon and pick out your Japanese maples. That's part of the process. And if they don't feel that their client is their client gives them pushback on that. Like yeah, no, we trust yield. And they're basically like well you're not a good fit for us. That's the kind of clients we want to work with or those who really truly want to be involved in every experience of what they create. And which is pretty cool. And another unique thing I'll share with that is their Japanese maples. They build a misting system into them so they take drip lines and they, they secure those carefully to, to the, to the trees and in some of the elevated areas around there that mist like three to five times a day to create that atmosphere because we live in a desert here and it's so dry. So their Japanese maples are just unbelievable. The way they, they survive here, the way they do them. which tells you more about the care that these clients have with their landscape, how important it is. They wanted to live in two places in one. They wanted to live in, in Kauai, their favorite place on Earth. And they wanted to live in their second favorite place right here in Sandy, Utah right in the foothill, ah Snowbird Ski Resort is, is a 15 minute drive from, from in this and this is at the edge of the city as you know. Right. And but the tram at Snowbird is 15 minutes from, from their property. So it's the best of both worlds for them with what they created.

Japanese homeowner was very involved in designing her backyard for her grandchildren

So the point is that when I introduced our design to this family we, she wanted to be very involved and I, I told her, I said you know, typically I, I do the designs my guys install. We go through the process with them. I said, but I want to work very carefully in zones with you through this project. So the first zone we did in the front by their, putting green, which we'll see. They, I, I had her with me every step of the way, flagging, talking, discussing why, what the elements were with the lighting, different aspects that we wanted to create. And she was very open minded to it. And she shared a little bit of feedback about certain things with glare, different ways, the way they live. They go to bed very early and they, their bedroom area. They wanted to make, you know, on and on kind of things. Anyway, we did that the first week was that first zone. And, we didn't proceed any further until she approved everything we did and wanted to make sure we're both on the same page. And after that first zone, she said, keith, the rest is yours. Do whatever you want with it.

When you say completed, like you did the install for that first zone, got her approved, lit it up, you're good.

Just did it. And she absolutely was thrilled with the results. And, and her comments were, thank you for listening to me and thank you for following my vision and my dream of what I wanted and why. And. And that's cool when you do that, you know, when you work with someone like that and have that trust and then they, they take the handcuffs off and they're like, have at it. I mean, little things she did with the fire. She built her own firefly forest in this project where you can meander up through where we have firefly lights attached to all different trees and things that come on. And like, her room for her grandchildren, when they visit, they have, in Utah, basements, right? So the window wells are like two thirds, you know, below, below grade, sometimes all the way below grade. And where the windows are, we put in. There's a rock area where we put in little fireflies by the grandchildren's windows so that they could have fireflies, because in Utah we don't have those. And, and she grew up in the south, and that was something she thoroughly enjoyed as a child. And she wanted to share those experiences with her own grandkids.

So when you're like, we're looking this from inside out, there's. This is a big property. So there's lots of different viewing angles depending on where they're at. Do you start your designs from inside? Do you do. Where do you start?

Sometimes I do, like on this property, really designing their backyard was from this picture right here. It was seeing what they're going to see 90% of the year from inside out and from their patios, how they're going to enjoy that experience. And their front entry, there's a zone there. You come into the front entry with the windows and glass that shines right out to this unique water feature. and the waterfalls in this project. We have about 50 underwater lights throughout this property. but anyway, that, that putting green right there. We have about seven down lights on.

yeah, I was just trying to see if I saw if I could see the I can't tell where's the front, where's the back.

That's the front yard right there. The driveway comes up on the right side there. coming up the hill there. And it goes back to her right, right above your cursor you can see that doorway right there. Looks like a garage back there. That's her art studio. It's a detached art studio. It's amazing.

Okay.

And anyway, the. In behind that art studio is her firefly forest with trails she's created with chat granite. And all her sculptures are back there that are really neat. and, and I, I should have shared. We've got others images of those things too. So But anyway. Yeah, that's the fun part of it. There's a Japanese maple in back that something we revealed to her at the end. I told her we had a little surprise for in that Japanese. It was sitting right in the middle of that one. Let's see if we got. Do I have it on there? It's that one right there on the left. Right behind the water feature to the left of that waterfall.

This one?

Yeah. You can't see it maybe. Is it. Did I do a close up image? Let me send you that one. You can see it there a little bit. But there are five or six star lighters hanging inside of the core of that tree. if you can zoom in on that, Ryan. I don't know if you can. But anyway, the, the star lighters that are in that tree are really cool. They're a little Copper Moon 625s. They're copper, tube with holes that shine through and the lights come down. But but the little holes, they're little ornamental fixtures that are super cool and, and we surprised her with that as a thank you. And little things like that that just, just I think is a cool touch you can do for a client when you have a special client. You're working with. If you can have a little fun thing to reveal.

I think that's cool. I mean, it kind of ties in the whole firefly theme, you know.

Exactly.

Cool.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that was fun. I should have picked some other images to send you on this, but, they have that little firewall that's the flames really low on that right there. But that's behind that water feature. It's pretty cool. And that's the water feature when you walk in the front entry. It's built around that.

Every down light is on its own system, every pathway lights on own system

It's, it's, it's awesome. so anyway, that putting green right there. so the, the cool thing about the system, the more that we learned how they wanted to use their lights, every down light is on its own system, every pathway lights on its own system, and every up lights on its own system. and there's a few other special lead lights that are on other things like individual, inline dimming control. But we used, Lutron radio RAW systems every trans. So, so basically they're nightly lights that turn on at their system or just their up lights. That's it. And then they'll turn on their putting green when they want to and they'll dim it down really low if they're not going to use it. Let's say they're entertaining, but they're not out on the green. They'll, they'll turn those down real low so it still has that atmosphere in the backyard. They'll have. Oh, and the water features. Should have mentioned, all the water lights are all on their own system. So they have four scenes they can bring in or out and dim all at different levels, which is really cool. So they don't even have their path lights on, unless they're entertaining or they're out on the property because their views with the windows are so spectacular. They just, they just don't use the path lights unless, unless they're, they're, they're entertaining and they do entertain quite a bit, with, with business. And they'll have a hundred people and they'll have big, big entertaining parties and things.

So did you. So you broke those up by zone, by transformer?

Yes.

Is that what I'm. Okay.

Yeah. We considered FX and different things we could have done with luxury, different ways to do it. But, ultimately, we, we went with, just everything zoned by.

So all the down lights, path lights, up lights and water features.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yep. That's really cool. Tony Finau. If anybody out there Knows he's a golfer, follows the world. Tony Finau, he's. He's a, a top 100 guy. He's been in the top 20 in the PGA Tour. He's a native Utah. He filmed a commercial on that, Oh, did he? With his kids. Yeah. That's pretty cool.

That is cool.

It was a while back, but, that last picture, if you want to go back to the. Those wash lights on that driveway going up. That's not the same property.

Oh, it's not?

No, that's a. That's a different property right there. That. That property's up and bountiful on the bench. But they, I. I love that picture. I decided to throw it in there. When people say. And we've all heard it, they look at your. They look at their, quote or proposal. And what do we. What do we hear all the time? Do I really need this many lights?

Yeah.

And I love to show that as an example of how many lights are in that. On that wall right there. And. And I asked him, which. Which one of these would you remove? Right.

Yeah, exactly.

One of these lights. Would you. Do you think we could do without. If we did every one of those. Every other one, how do you think that would change the effect? So it's not about how many lights. It's how we use the light and, have the composition. That. And it's interesting. Those spruce trees above that. There's no lights on. Those are. That's just the ambient light from those wash lights below and, capturing those shadows in between. That's. That's why I love that image. To show people that we don't have to be. Be direct. We can indirectly create that environment and scene.

Well, you know, what's interesting about it too, is because it is a different color. It's. It looks like you have like a, maybe a 2700 or 3000 here and then a 4K up here. But it's just that blue.

Yeah, that blue spruce. Exactly. And you know, we. There. There's other colors we could have gone really cool with on those. But those trees also overhang.

Kenny Stone: One differentiator is listening to your clients' needs

There's not a lot of space. You're going to get hot spots trying to light those trees because there's not a lot of space.

Yeah, you'd get a lot of hot spots. I love the way it turned out. These. The. The texture and shadows and stuff. There is just. That's something that I would have done, like on accident. Like, oh, that's cool.

And that driveway winds up and Then there was a picture you showed of the. Those garages that were, someone to show some core lighting that we've, we've done and you know, different things.

Right here.

Yeah, that's the top s turn curves all the way up to there. here we used, you know, just a little inch and three quarter in grade, that we cord in and you know, using the following, the seams and a lot of cutting and mortar and such to get things where they are. You can't, you can't tell how we got that wire there. Our guys did such an amazing job that you, you can't even, you can't even find. You'd think it was all poured at the concrete. And then we have some dormer lights on each side of those up above, in each corner, on those arches, arched gables. And and then behind that there's water features. An amazing pergola that we did as well. You can see just a hair of that. But it's called at the Eiffel Tower. If you go to our website, you'll see that, he, he was, he had that built for his wife. She loved the Eiffel Tower, so he told him to build that steel pergola to look like the Eiffel Tower. And it does.

That's awesome.

So their kids, their grandkids, you

can kind of see some of the shadows coming down through here.

Yeah, yeah, it was, I should, I could have brought more images for this to get the experience, but that water feature right there, there's a little platform out in front of that of Stone that their grandkids love to put on little plays for the grandparents. And so what we did is on the corner of that, that pergola, there's three down lights on each side and they're directed just like theater lights.

Oh, nice.

They can turn them on when the grandkids are performing and they can dim them and set them just how they want. And it's, pretty fun. So they have a lot of fun with that. It's very interactive for them with their grandkids. And I think that's what's important about like with both these two different clients is really listening to their needs, listening to what they're after. So that when you do present your, your design, you. You're speaking to that. You're, you're, you're. You want to show that you have a solution for their concerns and needs and. Or maybe some options so they can pick what they feel might be the best option for Them. And, I think that's one. One differentiator that I would say as a designer that. That if anyone listening, it makes a big difference. You can't just. I heard someone say to me one time about one of my competitors. I asked him, you had different choices. Why did you choose us? And. And I love this answer. They said they were like, it's our way or the highway. And you are willing to listen and understand our needs and not just make us just like any other client that you're gonna just cookie cut us into, fit to your needs. And, I've always really tried to, you know, we get busy in our day. We have a lot to get done. We have a lot of consults to get through or whatever you're trying to get through on your day and battle it out. I. I would say sometimes, you know, I loved it. I loved it with, Kenny a few weeks ago when. When he was speaking to us in one of the, design classes he was running. I think it was the design and. And he said, you know, or sales thing. It was.

Yeah.

Lower your tone a little. Just listen. Lean in. Really listen to your clients. And when you respond, give them a heartfelt consideration to their needs. And, Because that just hit home, I was like, man, so important. And I was glad he reminded me of that because sometimes we just kind of forget. And we closed our last six jobs. I'm just gonna close another. And you just forget that doesn't matter what you did yesterday, you gotta worry about what you're doing today.

Next week on the show, we're talking about how to ask good questions

So next week on the show, we're having Anthony, Vasari. He's the senior vice president of seventh level, literally the number one. The world's number one training company for B2C. And we're gonna talk about that, like, how to ask good questions. What type of questions to ask. Because I think that's a major problem with sales is. Especially. Because if we're an expert and we're the guide and we're the director, we feel like we got to tell everyone, like, this is how it's going to be. But. And, we're going to talk about the difference on how to do that. Where by asking questions, listening to your customers, you can. You can lead them to get to the point where you know that they want to be. But it has to be their choice, not your choice. Otherwise you're stripping their freedom and they don't want any. They don't want anything to do with that.

Well, I mean, Bill Laughlin, my first real Experience of learning lighting. It was why light? Right. We've all heard that. That was Bill's thing and it's carried on. If anybody's heard that today and didn't know where that came from, I really, I mean maybe Bill got that from someone else. But like being the grandfather of the whole world, outdoor lighting, you know, or one of them I'd say probably did come from. It was y life. So I asked people, I tell them straight up, hey, I'm going to ask you some silly questions, but just know that the more I can ask you, the more you can give me back, the better result we're. We're going to have. Well Keith, you're the expert, you tell us. And I'm like, but this isn't my home. We all tend to use our homes differently and have different appreciations for different things and I want to know all about it. So.

Hey Keith, when you where do you find the balance between design and scalability? Meaning when you look at a property, are you. Are you trying to design with the five or six kind of fixtures in your arsenal, thinking about future maintenance and warranty stuff like that, or are you just like open book? I don't care if it's a. Ah. If we have to hand make something for this, like where do you fall on that?

You know, you know, I, I'll take it back to Tim McKay. some of you may know Jerry McKay McKay Lighting and Omad. Jerry's brother worked with, with Jerry. Jerry's brother Tim worked with Jerry for quite a while in, in Omaha and his company and then he He. He left and became a. A rep. Sales rep for nightscaping for quite a while. And now he still is today in, in For Toro and, and Unique now and But. But anyway, the point is Tim came to my house and right when I got started I was looking for products. I remember I was looking for an in grade light. I'm like, I need a good ingredient. I don't even know where to go. It's like I'd probably put in literally two jobs at that point. And Tim came to my house, drove all the way from Denver to Salt Lake to meet me. And he's like, he brings in this board. It was like an acrylic board that had all these light sockets and, and bulbs in it. Mr. 16 bulbs.

And.

And I just wanted to look at fixtures. I'm like, yeah, but I, that's great. I want to see fixtures. I Want any. And he says, keith, I want to teach you about light. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I get it. And, and this is, these are halogens. You know what we call them? Babs, I don't even know. Baby, baby. And it's so, it's so anyway, he's got these little buttons and he plugs this thing in, brings transfer. We hook it up, we turn off all the lights, close all the windows or drapes and everything. You know, window coverings and room, my living room. And he's putting them on the wall and he's hitting the buttons and he's showing me, oh, this is a 60 degree beam. This is a, a 30, this is a 100 degree. And this is what a 4 watt lamp would look like. And this is what a. Or a 4 watt listening 20 watt and a 35 and a 50 or a 15 in. Ah, the different bipens and all these things. And it's like, I just want you to know and understand design. I want you to understand light effect fixtures. We'll figure that out later and then we'll plug in to the fixture what we need to make that happen.

Ryan: When I design, I truly design with the light effect

So to answer your question, Ryan, do I have my arsenal of five? When I design, I truly design with the light effect. And then I choose the fixture that's going to best represent that lamp, the surrounding area, how it's going to be durable and, and less conspicuous perhaps, what's gonna, but what's gonna do get the job done for the lamp and in order. The integrated fixture, it would be, you know, I'm designing with, with the beam spread, the lens, the whatever that might be, the color temperature, the lumen output, and that's, that's where my head goes. And then it just. But now it's easy because I already know my, my selection, of fixture real quickly. I already know what I'm going to utilize. So yeah, to answer that question, is it the same five fixtures? I would say I, I design with the same. 80% of my fixtures are probably the same 8 to 10 fixtures. And then, and then we specialize different applications with another 10 or 15. But you know, and occasionally we'll hit fixtures that we rarely use, that we'll have to special order or create in some way. But it's rare. I try to stay, keep things simple. Systems, systems. Ty likes to get a lot further off the board than I do. Oh yeah, that's going to take me six weeks, eight weeks to get that fixture. And I had this Special order and all that. And I'm like, I'm just going, oh, production gets. Oh, come on, man. It's gonna snow.

We gotta go. I'm like, okay, it would be cool to do that, but. But, does that affect our current system? How does that affect our current ability? And what stress is that going to put on? Like, are we. Do we have a system to remember that if that fixture is bad, we need to order it and give the client six weeks? Head up, heads up or all those types of things, you know?

You know, I mean, I won't say brands. There's a brand out there that's the Rolls Royce Creme de la Creme, of course, of path lights and. Or just they're. They're amazing. You know, billet cut, laser, you know, CNC machined, beautiful, very expensive fixtures. You have an LED go out, pull it out of the ground, put it in a box, ship it back. Lifetime warranty. They'll ship it back to you all in one piece. But it. You. You can't just go out, fix it on site and go home, right? And, And. And bill out that service call or carry that product on your truck. You have to go through so much to get it done. That. Just be prepared for that, you know? And, it. It and their. Their LEDs work exceptionally. But I'm in the middle of one of those right now, you know where. Oh, it came to my desk. We had to put it. Contact their. Their, you know, return warranty department. They send out the information. You know, it's a process, so you got to be mindful of all those things when you're doing it. So.

Ryan: I love this image. It's one that I've gotten miles out of

All right, so we're going from like, dream properties to just kind of like regular house here. Still. Amazing house. yeah, amazing property, but it's a little bit more I would call, just like a real house.

Yeah. Ah, absolutely. Beautiful brick tutorial. little community in. In Salt Lake called Sugar House. It's a very hip area, a lot of college. it's near the University of Utah. It's in an area that. That it's eclectic. People love to be. It's. It's local walkable shopping and restaurants. And, I showed this image. I. I think I. I like to select. Select this one because it's. I don't even know how many lights we're looking at right there. 12 lights, maybe, something like that. This was one of Ty's projects. I've never even been to the property. but we've utilized this image quite a bit. And, the thing I love about this image is that it's fun to me, shows. I mean, I can't imagine that property without light. What? You know, you turn those lights off and wow, the fun. Fun just died. Right? If you had just that. That barn light right above the front door there. okay, that's nice. Makes. Gives it some light, but it loses depth. It loses, the composition of what that property is all about. I mean, if you look in that, that window right there at the front, if you can zoom in there, Ryan. I mean, that's artwork you're looking at right there on the wall, and it's pretty cool. So their interior light is exceptional, and we didn't want to distract from that. We really wanted to. To make this. You know, that light's really hot on that brick right there on that fire. Fire pit. But, I, And that's the photography that. That photo actually was taken by Ty's iPhone, which I was shocked it did. It's done so well for us with a phone. We should have gone out and professionally shot that. But,

I don't know, I've gone back and forth. I'm like, well, you know, why would you represent your work like that? It's like, well, you know what? It still looks awesome.

Like, we could probably edit it a little bit, soften it up. I think we need. In fact, I'm probably gonna have to sage. Do that for us.

Yeah.

But, when I. But what I love about this image, when I'm getting to, is that we've gotten a lot of mileage out of it. Look at those dappled, leaves on the wall. Yeah, the. The shadows from that. That shrub, underneath. And. But what's amazing about that image, it's. It's one that I've gotten so many miles out of. And I think it. It represents us well with Mark, our marketing in that, hey, this is an ideal client that we work for. A home like this is just ideal for, you know, that. That I, you know, I'm just going to save for a 10 to $12,000 installation. front backyards, everything involved. Maybe a little more that. They do have a little bistro thing in the back and, a lot of stair, lights on their. Their really wide stair deck stairs that we've utilized in images as well.

But I like it. It's a cool property. It, Like. Like, I just feel like it's a real. It's like, okay, we don't have to have $10 million to hire you.

Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Well, you know, that's just it. So many times we go out and people are like, hey, these homes we look at in your brochure and your website, do you work on little homes like ours? I mean, do you do small projects or do we have to have a five million dollar network to have you here? You know, and it's like, you know. No, you don't. Yes. We just like to show off some of the homes that show our potential of what we could do. But that's why I think it's important to play things like this on a single downlight. What, what it can do for an amazing garden.

That's just one downlight.

Yeah. Yep. And there's another image right through

our light right there.

What do you call those things, those mazes?

This image was submitted to the Masters of Landscape Lighting award last month

the labyrinth things. That's actually the same property right there. And that sits that, that sits, above that last shot you went to and came back.

Yeah, I'll go to it.

Yeah, right there. It's up on the right and a plateau up on the right there. But again, this image here I love to show, when I'm at a consultation to help introduce what down lighting can do for you, so many people that aren't really familiar with downlining get a little nervous about it and why are you going to put a light in my tree? I got to look at that light in the tree looking down at me. there's one down light over those stairs and spilling all the way down that path. And it, it, And then, you know, there's another one there on the left or on the right side too, deeper into the, the garden over there and then on that hillside. But, but it's pretty cool when they can see the transitional lighting. Now this image is a project we did in 2010, 11. I only know that because we, we got a plaque on our wall here from somebody you guys might know, with the year on it. When we submitted that to the AOLP way back, Jan was kind enough to, to recognize this as one of her, her picks for her award. And we were quite flattered by that. And, and that's so cool. And you know what's cool man about it? That this image is. I'm still, I'm still trying to, to find that again, not, not the, not the award, but the magic that this image created. And not just the image, but the job. It really represents it as such. I remember the first night I walked into this property and the lights were on, like on our follow up. I knew then and right there, this is stunning. And I felt like it was by accident. Like, how did we create this and how did it turn out so magical with just a few downlights and the transition of, of up and down like that, those stairs. I mean it just, it just was amazing to me. And I knew immediately I said, we're bringing a photographer in here because you don't see this every day. You know, it was just so happened to be the property that really matched. You know, we're not like in the south or some of the east coast where you have abundant trees and platforms to work from, all the time.

But, but it's so cool. It's got that dappling you talked about. It's got this la. It's got this destination here with some pop of color. Yeah, it's just really cool.

You know, Ryan, I'll tell you what so funny. I mean, this has been fun. This, this book, the, the Masters of Landscape Lighting that, that has come out this last month that a lot of us are in. And I just started opening the page when it, when I, when I got it, I, I didn't like look for, oh, where's ours? Where, where our pictures? Where are we at? I just started flipping through it. There you go. There he is. I just started flipping page by page. And what was so fun for me, honestly, I couldn't believe the number of lighting guys in our community and gals who are so talented. And I, I was blown away going just page by page. And a lot of guys in the secrets too, you know, with you know, Apple staff and Andy and everybody. I mean, and so many others, you know, my, my good friend Tony Lotto and, and a lot of the guys. What's that?

That's how I say Tony's name. L A T E O.

There you go. And Anyway, I just, but really I was, I was, I was so humbled that I got to be in this publication with these guys and. But it blew my mind. I looked at my images and I said, I don't even deserve to be in this book. And then I was like. But my mind went back to that project, that downlining there at that property that, that old image. You know, I always want to show my new stuff and it doesn't look as good as our old stuff the way the photography and the editing.

Right.

that that photographer did for us. And I tried to get our new photographers to, you know, the ones We've been through to understand how to create and it gets lost in translation. And now I have this book to really show. Hey, look, this is what we're looking for. Because I think that photography sets. It sets the tone for your marketing and for whatever the purpose, the mood, obviously the lighting has to be done correctly, but with the combination you get, you bring those two things together the right way and you can, you can do amazing things.

Keith Hon is excited about the new outdoor lighting book coming out

Well, we're actually, we're going to do a whole episode on this new book that's coming out. you definitely deserve to be in there, Keith. and it is, it's so fun to just thumb through it and like, look at everyone's different projects and, kind of, I don't know, almost like daydream a little bit. Like, okay, what. What were they, what were they trying to accomplish? Was this on accident? Like, did they know it was going to look this awesome? Because we've all had those. I've had projects where I was just like, oh, my gosh, like, I did that. Like, that's crazy.

Well, Ty and I, this last week. We gotta get more books now. we were trying to. We were communicating on how can we best utilize this book. Because if it's sitting on somebody's bookshelf, it's not doing any good. You know, if it sits on my own coffee table or my desk in my office, it's not doing us any good. So how. Who should we be giving it to? And we were like, you know what? And this last week, Ty was working with an interior designer that, for not only his house, but his clients as well. So two different projects that they're about 50 grand for together. And, we decided that, that's who we give them to. Architects and designers. That's. That's really all we need. If we have an exceptional client that we feel could be important to give to, then maybe. But really it's about, I think those, parts. Strategic partners we're working with that can appreciate what goes into creating that book.

Totally agree. Yeah, no, they will appreciate that big time. Bookmark, your pages specifically, and you're gonna get a lot of work out of that. when I saw that project coming together, I just thought, wow, what a cool opportunity, you know, for you guys to showcase your work and then, yeah, use it. Use it to help grow your business and show everyone else, like, what lighting's all about. Because they did it. They did a great job putting the whole thing together. I know Jan was, involved in It. And, just, I don't know, they just did a great job showcasing what professionally designed, outdoor lighting can do and how transformational it is. So congrats on your, contributions in that as well.

You know, I. I even think if you're. You're new in the biz industry or you're, you know, you're. You're not as established yet as you will be or hope to be, I. I wouldn't even hesitate taking that book with me. And, hey, I don't have the portfolio yet, but I sure would love for your home to be represented as one of these types of projects. And I know, and I have the confidence that I can deliver that for you if that is the level you're at or I know people who do. And we can, you know, look. Look at, what Applesoft did. I mean, he had a project and he brought in, Niles, and, you know, he brought in the resources. He knew he was in over his head, and he was like, I don't know if I can do this alone. I need help. And he created that. And, and that representation of his work and hard work he put into that is in this book. That is a mind blow. And. And look at him now. I mean, he's. He's. That gave him the confidence. There's. There isn't anything out there he couldn't take on. Now after going through that.

Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that because there are. All the newbies are like, hey, does anyone have any pictures they can share? It's like, well, there's 300 pages right here. Just go get this book. And then you're not, you know, you're not, pretending to be someone you're not.

Honesty is. Is the biggest thing you can do, and people respect and appreciate that. In fact, they want to help you become that. Yeah, I believe that. I. I know when I was young, I felt that way with people I like, hey, you know, I. I just grateful for the opportunity to be here today. I know with the job, the experience I have, I can. I can create this. I just haven't done it at this scale, but I. I can assure you that we can get that done. And, I'll work with you till the, you know, the ninth degree to make sure that happens, and that before we leave, that's what you'll have. You know, you don't have to pay me until the. Until we achieve that.

Mike: Keith, you have big goals for your company this year

Well, Keith, man, this has been awesome. I really appreciate you walking us through These different projects, I, guess to just wrap up. Do you want to give us a tease? Is there anything that, you guys are working on over there or any, you want to get vulnerable and share any goals that you've got that you want to profess to the world so we can hold you accountable or. Yeah, anything you want to share.

You know, I'd like to get to that. What's that? The next level of the, the sales. What do you call it?

LMCX.

LMCX.

10 mil.

One member that's there. Do you have more than one?

No. Greg. Greg Matthews is the only one so far, so he needs, need some competition.

Well, I'll tell you what. I, I, I'm not one that normally likes to think just, it's, it's not the, the monetary gross figure there.

Yeah.

It's how we get to that number and how that changes our company and our position in our current market. But that took me a little over about two years to get where I am, and, I'd like to get that done well under two years from now.

Yeah.

And, and hit that. I, you know, I, I think I need to be. I have to do the math out on it with the months, but, but I got a big goal this year and, I was hope. You know, there's things going on in the world that are. That you have to rally around and get behind it. Yeah. And. Or I mean, get, get ah, ahead of it and, and stay, stay on the, on the path. You can't just get knocked down and make excuses. You got to get up and, and, and drive. Drive through those forces, you know.

You're doing that, though. I, I feel the, the energy, the passion, which I think is rare. with someone with your level of expertise, your experience, it's easy to just kind of be like, you know what? I play golf. I play Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And you're not, you're not saying, well, I'm, I'm not going to play golf so that I can do this. You're just finding ways to do both. But you're also putting a plan in place to be like, no, I'm going to play golf and grow my business. I'm recognizing there's areas that we haven't, we haven't really focused on, and

we're fortunate to build a team around us. So I can do that. I, I'm here every day. I'm, I'm engaged every day, every minute. But because we've built a team around us. It allows me to do that. Even if I wasn't doing those things, it's better I am, because it gets me a way to allow my team grow, develop themselves, and be who they need to be. They don't need me here. I'm just here to, you know, I'm the ideal guy. I'm throwing out ideas, and they can throw them right back in my face.

And, you just, every time you come in, you screw things up. You know, it's just like,

all right,

I had to for Nina.

You stop that. No, it's great, though. I, I, you know what? I like having passionate people around me that, that love, to lean in on me and, and really give me their, perspective, because that's what builds a team, and that what. That's what gets us to the next level.

I love it. All right, well, thanks so much, Keith. We'll let you go.

Hey, Mike.

Here's to the lmcx, baby. Let's get it done.

All right. Lots, um, a lot to take away from today's episode

All right.

Thanks for joining in. Lots, a lot to take away from today's episode. Thank you so much, Keith, for walking us through your different projects, your ideas, all the different things that you've done to grow your business. So thanks, and I hope everyone has a great week.

Thanks, guys,